best converters?

dblbass · Post by **dblbass** » Wed Oct 17, 2001 10:47 pm

Anybody know if the converters in the A16 are different/better than those on-board, behind the various scope boards' analogue I/Os?

I know the A16 has other advantages, notably lots of channels, and presumably the Z-link is a good way into and out of the pulsar environment. But I'm mainly interested in the best quality conversion I can get (i.e. lowest sampling error, best use of available dynamic range, and best clipping error management, etc), one channel (or one stereo channel) at a time. Do I already have this?

Any opinions on how the conversion on my PII cards compares to the A16 - or to other analogue I/O options compatible with CW cards?

tks

jupiter8 · Post by **jupiter8** » Thu Oct 18, 2001 7:49 am

If you wan't the best converters, use Apogee.
End of story.

subhuman · Post by **subhuman** » Thu Oct 18, 2001 9:10 am

If the original A16 is anything to go by, the new A16 Ultra is going to be very nice, and I am going to get one myself at some point

Apogee is nice but for the extra $$ for a 24/96 sixteen channel converter, I'd rather have more DSP.

Thalamus · Post by **Thalamus** » Thu Oct 18, 2001 3:10 pm

Actually, Apogee don't sound THAT nice, it's more the name and the PRO specs you pay for (meters, flexible connections, pro tools "friendly", nice limiters, topsound samplerate conversion, and of curse extreme low jitter), but the sound from the actual converters isn't that much far from converters from fx Motu, RME Fostex & creamware. Fostex being the lowest price/quality solution.

In fact alot of pro peoble like the RME solutions very much, sound-vise.

I look forward to hear the new creamware converter, curse i owned the "old" a16 for years now, and the sound quality is nice, clean and even better sounding than most 24 bit convertors on the market (alesis ai-8 fx)

But i have to point out, that if you haven't got it allready, you should get the Syncplate, from creamware, else you aint getting 50% of the real sound of ANY convertor.

And too, alot depends on what outboard gear you have (preamps, limiters, compressors etc), curse theres no reaon to pay twice if you already have the gear for it...

Hi there...

[ This Message was edited by: Thalamus on 2001-10-18 16:20 ]

Air_PoLLo · Post by **Air_PoLLo** » Thu Oct 18, 2001 3:14 pm

ProSonus has a nice set of A/D's but they all cost 2600+USD

Thalamus · Post by **Thalamus** » Thu Oct 18, 2001 3:17 pm

Presonus is VERYYY nice too

JoeKa · Post by **JoeKa** » Thu Oct 18, 2001 3:21 pm

They´re all different, the convertors of the A8/A16 are limited to 48 kHz and are 18bit but symetric, those on your Pulsar2 are 24/96 non-symetric. I use two A16s, and the convertors are still better than all of my VA-synths outputs, except for my Alesis DM-Pro and my Sony DPS-V55 which are a bit too powerful on their outputs...
But who cares, the A16s are really nice-sounding and for the money you´ll get nothing comparable.

[ This Message was edited by: JoeKa on 2001-10-18 16:23 ]

subhuman · Post by **subhuman** » Thu Oct 18, 2001 3:48 pm

...Singing... A16 Ultra A16 Ultra A16 Ultra A16 Ultra

Can you tell I'm excited by this one?

JoeKa · Post by **JoeKa** » Thu Oct 18, 2001 5:19 pm

I believe that... but I was talking ´bout the "old" A16

dblbass · Post by **dblbass** » Thu Oct 18, 2001 6:27 pm

thanks for all the feedback

Sounds like the a lot of people think well of the A16. But I still am wondering, does anyone know for a fact whether the A16 (old or new) uses different/better converters than the ones on my pulsar II boards, or is it the same.

(I assume the PII has a pair of cnvrtrs on-board for the stereo analogue I/Os, right?, whereas A16 has 16 (pairs?)

Also, what's "symetric" mean in converter land? (used in one response to this thread)

Finally, Thalamus said that w/o syncplate the converter performance is somehow lost? Maybe I'm missing something. Can anyone clarify?

All I'm looking for at the moment is a single (Stereo) A-D conversion that goes into pulsar easily, and which is as high-quality sonically (does this equal "accurate"?) as possible. Do I have that already on-board?

(and sadly, quality/price consideration needs to be factored in)

JoeKa · Post by **JoeKa** » Thu Oct 18, 2001 6:50 pm

Well, if you´re looking for just a single stereo I/O you can rely on your Pulsar´s on-board convertors, I guess.

And you don´t know the difference between symetric and non-symetric connections? Uh, that takes some explanation then:

Non-symetric is the usual way of audio connection among the "normal" soundgear, where you have for a mono signal just the signal (core) and the base (shield). All forms of usual plugs (cinch or mono jacks) can naturally only transmit audio via the signalwire.
But:
Symetric cables use two wires for the signal plus the shield. The signal in these both wires are phase-inverted one to another, so if an external radiation sends noise into the whole cable, it will be the same amplitude for both phases. The (symetric) receiving part of the signal again will invert one phase and mix the both together, so the noise will be phase-inverted in one of them now and therefor extinguish itself.
That´s it, no cable noise anymore. So it´s sensible to have symetric wiring wherever possible, especially in more complex setups with many audio-, energy- and datacables close to each other. Generally used plugs for symetric wiring are stereo jacks or XLR (for mono-signals each)

Got it? Anyone who´d explain it different?

claes · Post by **claes** » Fri Oct 19, 2001 12:30 am

symmetrical is just another way of saying balanced then..

I'm curious of why wordclock should be so important in this use? I understand why people use wordclock, but if the device already gets synchronized by the adat output from pulsar, what's the difference?

marcuspocus · Post by **marcuspocus** » Fri Oct 19, 2001 8:24 am

If you use the A16 with Z-link instead of ADAT, you won't need any wordclock. And also none of the synching issues. Z-link is so perfect, with 2 zlink, you'll get the FULL 24/96 on 16 channels. In ADAT world the max, using both ADAT is 8 channels @ 24/96 or 16 channels at 24/48 (using S/MUX).

If you use the adat options, wordclock is neat, cuz it's a lot more precise than having pulsar sync all of this. The wordclock as low jiter correction and can be used to sync other hardware.

kensuguro · Post by **kensuguro** » Fri Oct 19, 2001 12:35 pm

I was wondering, the new A16 is a standalone box right? I have the impression that many of these converter boxes are a set of a PCI card and the box itself, being controled by some software. In my case, there is no way I can free up a PCI slot so I've given up on getting these... But if A16 can go without using a PCI slot, then this could solve the problem... finally I can input DIRECTLY into PulsarII Plus..
On the other hand, my PCI slots being full, automatically eliminates the option of using the Z-link.. I'd have to settle with the ADAT which is OK since I don't need 96hz.
Things would be so much easier if Creamware put Z-link on all their cards.. What good is a proprietory interface if they're not going to standardize it??

[ This Message was edited by: kensuguro on 2001-10-19 13:37 ]

marcuspocus · Post by **marcuspocus** » Fri Oct 19, 2001 12:42 pm

Yes, the A16 are completely standalone, they don't need anything else other than 1 or two adat were to plug it, or 1 or 2 Z-link in the other case.

You don't even need a pulsar, could use it to add input and output to a digital mixer...