Time for a new BigMixer?

hairbrain · Post by **hairbrain** » Fri Jun 01, 2001 1:46 am

What with all this talk of routing stuff through sequencers rather than the bigMixer I was wondering whether we're in need of a new type of bigMixer.

We don't really need a bigMixer to use as a mixer so it needn't have volume, pan, eq, mute, etc.

But we still need the bigMixer to patch in Pulsar-only Insert and AUX effects. Agreeably most of Pulsars effects will probably be ported to XTC but some freebies probably won't and also there are some of us who won't be shifting to XTC anyway.

What we really need from the big mixer is a low DSP routing device which allows you to patch effects into it.

I use GigaStudio & Sonar. My GigaStudio has 32 outputs. For Sonar I use 32 wave drivers to route the seperate 32 GigaStudio instruments through to. Therefore.....

There is definite need for one MASSIVE routing device with at least 68 inputs (64 + line in and pulsar synths), 34 outputs, a single stereo master out, and the ability to patch insert & Aux effects into it.

This would be really really cool!

algorhythm · Post by **algorhythm** » Fri Jun 01, 2001 4:33 am

most inserts will load directly into the pulsar window - you do not need the racks. since i use the VST mixer, i like to think of the whole project window as my freely assignable insert panel

there are some freebie insert racks available (the midiizers for instance - i think spacef has one too). also, mod2 is good for using inserts, especially if you have Ingo's four input empty mod cuz you then have four ins and outz . . . the device you described does sound cuwel though!

subhuman · Post by **subhuman** » Fri Jun 01, 2001 8:20 am

There is even the stock "Creamware Stereo Insert Rack" and "Creamware Mono Insert Rack" in the Devices/Inserts folder. These are nice because they have the "Active" button to turn off an effect, and "Wet/Dry" mix knobs.

I like the Midizers a little better myself, plus they're stealth black

They also have the "serial/parallel" switch which is nice.

If only these devices would give us the Preset window, then we could actually save those racks with effects inside them, making for "prebuilt" multifx... I'm not sure that's possible though.

algorhythm · Post by **algorhythm** » Fri Jun 01, 2001 1:02 pm

it is possible with the Modular2. you can do that and more (save presets of fx routings). see my post at:
http://planetz.ghostwheel.com/phpBB/vie ... &forum=9&6 for details. Also, i posted an example in the Modular files. it is pretty simple - serial tempo delay>lpfilter>reverb, (i think).

Mo · Post by Mo » Sat Jun 02, 2001 3:40 am

have to agree with hairbrain - 32 ins in the bugmixer is some small indeed, even if playing back just 16 tracks...

i would like creamware to give the sp mixer to the pulsar customers. it has 48 ins, and a far more ergonomical layout than the bugmixer, last and least it looks better

i would even buy it...

subhuman · Post by **subhuman** » Sat Jun 02, 2001 1:35 pm

I think Creamware should make SP v2 to continue to keep SP elite and cutting edge, and when they do, make SP v1 devices available for purchase. How many STS5000 and SP mixers would they sell do you think? I'd seriously consider upgrading to the 5k...

kimgr · Post by **kimgr** » Sun Jun 03, 2001 5:36 am

You can already buy the SP-mixer and the STS-5000: It's called "Scope/SP - Software update", and it runs on any Creamware system with at least 10 DSP's... And please don't start complaining about the 10DSP limit, because it doesn't make much sense to run these devices on anything less.
Now go see your local Creamware dealer

kwild · Post by **kwild** » Sun Jun 03, 2001 10:39 am

All seems to be a marketing policy only,and that sux!!:(
All the thing maded for a scope works on the normal pulsar.I have a new cracked version (only for curiosity i don't use them...) of STS-5000 and for the little time i have tested,works correctly.
Creamwhore are joking us!!!
Like for the WDM drivers....all that it's no good....no good.
http://www.kwild.com

hairbrain · Post by **hairbrain** » Mon Jun 04, 2001 2:39 am

Ok here's the plea then....

I see what you mean algorhythm about not really needing inserts or aux. If needs be I can just route my signal via them. So what this boils down to is a plea for 2 very very simple routing devices. I don't have scope so I can't make them but if any generous soul could I'd be forever greatful.

Basic Routing Devices
---------------------

These devices will do nothing but route audio signals through to ASIO or Wave dest drivers.
No Volume, No Pan, No EQ, No FX, Minimum DSP.

Device 1) 32 inputs > 16 outputs, Stereo Master out, & Stereo Monitor Out.

Device 2) 78 inputs > 38 outputs, Stereo Master out, & Stereo Monitor Out.

The first device is just like the bigMixer except I would imagine, without eq's, volume, etc, VERY low on DSP.

The second device is a Sonar/GigaStudio dream. Maximum outputs of GigaStudio routed through to Sonar, each output getting a seperate wave driver. With room still left for line in and 2 synths. All with the minimum DSP usage possible.
If I want to add eq or an effect I can just put that between the instruments and the mixer. If I want to set volumes & pan I can do that in Sonar.

There are two pressing reasons for such basic devices....
A) We cannot route a stereo signal from an instrument AND a stereo Wave play driver through to the same Wave record driver. We thereby need a routing device which will make possible for 32 audio outs to go into 16 audio ins.
B) From what I understand XTC will not be compatible with GigaStudio (there will be no GSIF drivers available under XTC). This means that those of us using GigaStudio or GigaSampler will not be able to change to XTC. We are still in need of better pulsar mixers.

I really hope this is easy as cake for someone because it would be really helpful.

(should I put a request through to the wish list here at planetz?)

hairbrain

Neutron · Post by **Neutron** » Mon Jun 04, 2001 6:51 am

the problem with "the ultimate simple routing
mixer" is that everyone works differently and needs something a bit (or a lot) different and mixers are tedious to make

DeFex

hairbrain · Post by **hairbrain** » Mon Jun 04, 2001 7:46 am

Shame to hear that mixers are really boring and complex to build. Maybe someone will build one out of necessity, I know I would if I had Scope.

As for flexibility... what about if you could set the amounts of inputs & outputs to your own personal specs like you can with the inputs of the DynaMixer.....

Surely it can't be that difficult to build just a routing device with nothing else going on in it... just a signal router? Maybe I should petition Creamware because, when you think about it, it's such a simple device it should be a core part of Pulsar.

I suppose a cheat could be using Modular2, with it's 4 ins and 2 outs, just to route signals through. The trouble is that I'd need to run 20 of them!!!!

How much DSP does an empty Modular2 use up?

Peezahj · Post by **Peezahj** » Thu Jun 07, 2001 4:10 am

Hey Defex, want to make an interesting mixing solution with unlimited potential? Simple, chuck out a 32 i/o modular 2 & let users build the mixer themselves!

-Eric Dahlberg

PabloFasan · Post by **PabloFasan** » Fri Jun 08, 2001 7:53 pm

I don't found really a problem to work with the Big Mixer, it could have more inputs and sourround pan in each channel, but in fact it's very similar to a professional hardware "in line" mixer.

For me the most important benefit of it, is that if you know how to use a real big mixer you have not learning curve with it.

What's a must is to give it MIDI multichanel capabilities and allow to use other MIDI messages than control changes.

But I don't found ANY benefit for example to replace it for the mixer of NUENDO, the quality of NUENDO EQs and compressors is by far worst than CWs or SonicTimeworks.

Also it has a non-standard odd design, why not to do the inverse.

To supress the mixers of the sequencers and work only with the Big Mixer?

JoeKa · Post by **JoeKa** » Thu Jun 28, 2001 5:33 am

I use the Dynamixer as a Submixer for the big one. But from time to time I´d also like a "Giantmixer" or stuff, with at least 64 Ins, 12 Aux and a more variable surface with rotary knobs instead of these stupid sliders for the auxs.

algorhythm · Post by **algorhythm** » Thu Jun 28, 2001 6:24 am

On 2001-06-07 05:10, Peezahj wrote:
Simple, chuck out a 32 i/o modular 2 & let users build the mixer themselves!

Amen to that brother!

[even 8 or 16 would be stellar (or all of the above!)]. I think we have tossed this around in the Mod Forum - I would bet that it is pretty easy technically, but I think that CW is/would be firmly against the idea! Why? This would simply be WAY to powerful. It doesn't make sense at first - "Why would CW not want us to have the most powerful tools for our music?" - one might ask. the answer is because it would almost inevitably cut down pulsar [software plug-in] sales. I know that I would be able to build some way-sic stuff if I had 8 or > ins/outs! Oh well - where are the renegade scopers out there? help some fools out!

Peezahj · Post by **Peezahj** » Thu Jun 28, 2001 11:46 am

Do you honestly think that CW is worried about a multi i/o modular II cutting into the sales of other devices (such as the SP mixer)? I highly doubt that, especially since it would *increase* the sales of the modular II!

Everyone should check out Guy Eastwood's new Scope Tool Box, it gives you nearly everything that is available to Scope users but without the ability to design interfaces. Build your own mixer, hell, build your own reverbs!

dbmac · Post by **dbmac** » Fri Jun 29, 2001 1:34 am

I'd love to see an Obsidian Toolbox project or two posted to the Z files section showing us modular luddites examples of the tools in action.
/d