Questions about Scope and Mac OS9

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newnumbertwo
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Joined: Sun Feb 14, 2021 3:59 pm

Questions about Scope and Mac OS9

Post by newnumbertwo »

Hello All - I've been lurking here as a reader for a couple months, and although I don't currently own any Creamware/SC products, the enthusiasm and friendliness of the community is inspiring me to take the plunge.

I have been working with audio production on computers for years, starting with Reaktor 3, Max 4/Pluggo & Cubase in 2001.

While I do think a XITE-1 is probably a likelihood for my Windows 10 machine at some point in the future, at the moment I am focused on building out a PowerMac G4/Mac OS9-based system. Although I've tried to do a diligent search of the forum archives & Google, I have a few questions I am hoping more experienced users can help me with. My apologies if some of these questions seem like they have obvious answers...

Also, I want to be clear - I realize that it may be easier to run Scope on other platforms, but right now I am focused on building out my G4 MDD OS9 PowerMac. Embracing the constraints (including the lack of support) is part of the process for me, I just want to know precisely what those constraints are in regards to this platform. At any rate, here are my questions:
  • What PCI cards are compatible with the G4/OS9 ? Perhaps the better question is, which PCI cards are NOT compatible?
  • Is Scope 4.5 the last version available for OS9? Is it the recommended version for OS9?
  • I know that commercial plugins are locked to a specific card. Will I only be able to run the plugins that come with the cards I acquire, or is it still possible to purchase 4.5-compatible plugins by say, purchasing the most recent version and then asking SC support (or a 3rd-party vendor) to give you a 4.5-compatible download link & key?
  • Is there a chart anywhere of available plugins for the Scope platform, and what Scope versions they will run on?
  • Say that I start with a PCI card that comes with X number of plugins locked to it, and I acquire another card with different plugins locked to it. Will the plugins be able to employ the combined DSP of both cards, or will they be constrained to running on the card they are locked to?
  • I am currently using a Metric Halo 2882 FW interface, will Scope play nicely with it or should I strive to use the audio I/O on the Scope cards? Clearly using the 2882 will require using Scope in ASIO mode, which introduces latency, but are there other drawbacks?
  • It seems that the wordclock options for Scope PCI cards (I think this is called the "Sync Plate") are somewhat difficult to find. Is it possible to sync a clock signal via the ADAT ports on the card?
  • Is there anything I should look out for when purchasing a used card?
Thanks in advance for any guidance you might have. I'm looking forward to this journey!
borg
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Re: Questions about Scope and Mac OS9

Post by borg »

newnumbertwo wrote: Sun Feb 14, 2021 6:20 pm
[1] What PCI cards are compatible with the G4/OS9 ? Perhaps the better question is, which PCI cards are NOT compatible?
[2] Is Scope 4.5 the last version available for OS9? Is it the recommended version for OS9?
[3] I know that commercial plugins are locked to a specific card. Will I only be able to run the plugins that come with the cards I acquire, or is it still possible to purchase 4.5-compatible plugins by say, purchasing the most recent version and then asking SC support (or a 3rd-party vendor) to give you a 4.5-compatible download link & key?
[4] Is there a chart anywhere of available plugins for the Scope platform, and what Scope versions they will run on?
[5] Say that I start with a PCI card that comes with X number of plugins locked to it, and I acquire another card with different plugins locked to it. Will the plugins be able to employ the combined DSP of both cards, or will they be constrained to running on the card they are locked to?
[6] I am currently using a Metric Halo 2882 FW interface, will Scope play nicely with it or should I strive to use the audio I/O on the Scope cards? Clearly using the 2882 will require using Scope in ASIO mode, which introduces latency, but are there other drawbacks?
[7] It seems that the wordclock options for Scope PCI cards (I think this is called the "Sync Plate") are somewhat difficult to find. Is it possible to sync a clock signal via the ADAT ports on the card?
[8] Is there anything I should look out for when purchasing a used card?
It's been a while, and coincidently I dug up my old G3 when cleaning up the cellar two days ago...
1. all PCI cards are compatible
2. I think 4.5 was the latest on mac, fairly sure actually. The differences between 3, 4 and 4.5 aren't really that big anyway, iirc.
3. It will depend from plugin to plugin. Some (very few) wouldn't even work anyway on a mac (Orbitone vocoder is one). You can always ask for demo keys. I haven't tried booting the mac yet, but I'm sure I have quite a few plugin files for mac, but certainly not all.
4. There's SC shop, but that won't give you version info you look for. Most 3rd party plugins were made by developers that have left the platform after the 4.5 era/before 5, so normally those shouldn't be a problem anyway.
5. Multiple cards are seen as one system, plugins and DSPs are shared. Of course, if you decide to sell one of the cards, you'll lose the plugins on that card (unless a transfer fee is paid).
6. It might help if you be more specific what you expect from that machine. Is it an auxiliary machine just running scope standalone and piping audio and midi to/from another (sequencing/recording) machine? This would be straightforward. Or do you want to make a self contained system? Then you can't get around using Scope as your ASIO client. In OS9 there was nothing like 'aggregate devices'. I must say, I never tried running Scope as a standalone app alongside another soundcard on the G3. Could work in theory, sending audio over ADAT, but I doubt that would work in practice. If the 2882 can be configured and can operate in standalone mode, you could set it up as a 8 channel AD/DA using ADAT.
7. ADAT will sync fine. Sync Plates are indeed rare.
8a. OMS midi was a bitch
8b. The last sequencer I installed that was still somehow useable was Ableton Live 4, maybe a G4 might do a bit better.
8c. Try to look for second generation cards (only Pulsar I and the original ScopeDP cards are gen1)
8d. Condition of the cards of course (caps leaking, broken traces/solders, ...)
8e. Did you check if the MDD is ok with Scope? I remember it being either the last that would run Scope, or the first that didn't anymore. I know for sure G5s didn't work. (was it the 3.3/5V? can't remember.)
andy
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astroman
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Re: Questions about Scope and Mac OS9

Post by astroman »

The MDD has 5V slots and works with Scope cards.
G5 Macs (follow up) don‘t even run OS-9.
newnumbertwo
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Re: Questions about Scope and Mac OS9

Post by newnumbertwo »

Thank you for the responses, very helpful.

In re: to the question about use, what I was wondering is if it was possible to use the Scope plugins inside a VST host such as Cubase or Logic, but use a different audio interface for IO... not that this is the optimal way to use it, was just curious. I read in a couple places that this is called "XTC" mode, but it wasn't clear if this mode was ever available for OS9.

As far as buying additional plugins to run on my Scope, I'm not sure I'm clear on whether or not this is possible.
Music Manic
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Re: Questions about Scope and Mac OS9

Post by Music Manic »

newnumbertwo wrote: Wed Feb 24, 2021 12:02 am Thank you for the responses, very helpful.

In re: to the question about use, what I was wondering is if it was possible to use the Scope plugins inside a VST host such as Cubase or Logic, but use a different audio interface for IO... not that this is the optimal way to use it, was just curious. I read in a couple places that this is called "XTC" mode, but it wasn't clear if this mode was ever available for OS9.

As far as buying additional plugins to run on my Scope, I'm not sure I'm clear on whether or not this is possible.
Yes but XTC works only in v5.1 I believe.

Scope plugins are here; https://scope.zone/index.php?id=1360&lg=en. Loads of free ones as well on planet Z.

I think we need to do an exact latency chart for plugins and thar would make they useable in real-time mixing if used correctly. I’ve asked for a ASIO latency wrapper to be created but not sure if that’s possible.

The Scope DSPs are still good and sound great to me.
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