Scope Lite Rackmount for Live Guitar

[BRG]

This is a shout out, especially to any guitarists, that might use a single, Scope PCI card for live performance. I get a perfect, clean, stereo, luscious processed sound in my studio through a Marshall JMP1 preamp into my Scope Pro card thru a MultiFX S insert with Paul Tanti's 2032 reverb, Delay S, Vinco S and Pitch Shifter S (set to play an octave below for bass) and several other FX as needed. Very fat and nice. It's basically the same solo gig sound other guitarists get by spending major $$$ for the Fractal Axe FX III, which I'd rather not do as it's way more fluff than I require for jazz/pop/old school music. I'm intrigued by the new MSI MS-98L9 V2.0 motherboard and the idea of building a stripped down, headless, rackmount unit to run live. (I could maybe even install my old TripleDAT card in that and have Osiris again). No need for massive storage/drive bays or even DSPs. Just a compact, quiet, lightweight, midi footswitch controlled setup for reliable, live, solo gigs. I was going to use my Pulsar II card but have just verified that it's not readily recognized in either of my 2 DAWs and is defective. It comes to life eventually in a one card setup but needs repair beyond my skillset. I have an extra JMP1, and could buy a used Scope card so as to avoid undoing my current studio DAW, but need some ideas on components for my desired use. What MB, CPU, case etc. have any of you used for live guitar? I want a QUIET, Scope Lite Guitar for the Road setup. I'd love to hear your thoughts on solutions that have worked for you.

[astroman]

The PT2032 is a very nice reverb, but tbh it would be a challenge to detect it's character in any regular live venue context.
Most PAs and rooms will simply swallow the details.
I have only the 2016 myself (unfortunately) because the larger ones didn't run on my single Pulsar One back then.
But these reverbs are quite sensitive to their computing environment, at least in my case. It comes in 3 flavours of which some don't run at all. The working one can vary in different versions of Scope, reaching from occasional glitches over muddy sound to perfect performance.
Unless you have thorough experience with your PT 2032, I wouldn't rely on it just by hear-say or assumptions.

My 'best board' with a single PCI slot was the Foxconn 45CS, an early Atom ITX board which is still common on eBay.
It has exceptional PCI performance (15 Masterverbs iirc) and I once recorded 32 VDAT tracks with it to a 5200rpm standard notebook disk.

On the other hand I wouldn't go headless and midi-automated with any Windows box.
There's always something that can happen... and according to Murphy it will happen if you're unprepared

I'm really sorry to say, but imho Scope doesn't offer anything for a live guitar/bass player that isn't covered by an iPad in a better way - which applies to sound, convenience and price.
Tbh I was shocked when I got the first version of Bias (by Positive Grid) which ran on an iPad-2.
Today there's AUM as a virtual mixer/router (on iPad) that allows other apps as insert processors, it has busses and can adress multiple (external) input/output channels. An USB interface that is class compliant is all that's required.
Eventide seems to port everything from their flagship 19" unit ($7k, also runs on ARM chips for DSP) to IOS in slices.

I have Scope, Pro Tools TDM and IOS and like them all - the above text is my personal conclusion after almost 10 years with IOS.

[BRG]

Thanks astroman. I have been a fan of and tester for Paul’s reverbs from the beginning and have every verb of his. Unparalleled to my ears. As I’m looking for the perfect stereo setup to sonically please me in small, low volume wine tasting room gigs and already have that sound in my studio, I thought, why keep trying to reinvent the wheel? I have all the tube amps/pedalboard toys I need for my occasional 7pc band with horns/full tilt boogie gigs, which sadly now are all cancelled. Playing solo is more demanding as there’s no lush array of my fellow musicians to blend with. I have a new 12.9” iPad Pro and know little about employing that as my solo guitar rig. I will investigate your ideas and hunt for forums that cover this topic. I’m just so spoiled with the current clarity and breadth of lush detail I’ve become accustomed to that I’d have to hear an iPad rig to believe it could come close to satisfying me.

Paul told me a funny story about setting up Scope in Hans Zimmer’s studio. The Sony rep was trying to sell Hans a $20,000 reverb unit. They compared it on the spot with Paul’s 2032L IIRC, and the Sony rep was sweating bullets saying, “Well, ours is clearly better”. Hans replied, “Not $20,000 better”.

[dante]

Have you thought about a Reactive Load Box ? If I was going to do pro guitar work I'd be flying for the UA's Ox Box (even I dont really have the chops to justify it) - probably in a similar league to Fractal Axe FX - theres a few shoot out youtubes around that compare the 2 - with some saying the AU IR's produce a more natural CAB sound.

Reserve your Scope for John Bowen synths is what I do.

[astroman]

ok, I admit I had the traditional rock gig in mind when I wrote the text above...
If you have the gear and locations for better audio, that's great.
I also keep the PT2016 for it's special character, as the UM1280 Delay/Reverb (hoping it will get extended one day...), Celmo's Vintage Delay and Tape Echo.

A couple of iPad examples, iirc from a Mini-2
https://soundcloud.com/anshoragg/audientele
this is my MiM Telecaster by the instrument input of an Audient ID22, Ampsim is Bias/JamUp Bassman with only a bit of Fender 63 Reverb
Playing is humble (but at least 'unique' ), this was about tone definition in the 1st place. Important sidenote: strings are d'Addario ECG flatwounds

https://soundcloud.com/anshoragg/teleapefilter
this was derived from the recording above - all and everything is the Telecaster processed by a modulated filter (Apesoft Apefilter). Only the wide space effect was added by Vahalla Übermod's Tape Echo algorithm from the Reverb preset section. (dunno why it's called 'echo'... because it's just the lush fading reverb tail)

There's no equivalent for the PT reverbs (up to IOS-9 on which I'm stuck with my device atm), but there have been releases on newer versions of the OS that are considered superior to earlier IOS reverbs.

[BRG]

Hi Dante and Astroman. I'm playing more jazz, hollow body guitar, flat wound strings and fairly low volume gigs. No need for attenuation, just trying to duplicate my Scope heaven FX for clean, live, stereo, solo guitar and voice. Not much crunch, distortion or overdrive thrown in the mix ever. I can get wonderful, analog world, live guitar with my boutique Jim Kelley 30/60 combo amp, my Roland RE 501 tape delay in combination with several other choice FX on my pedalboard. The Jim Kelley weighs a ton however and I'm not keen on hauling heavy amps anymore at 68 years of age. My Roland Blues Cube Artist works amazingly well and is the first non-tube amp I've ever fallen in love with, and it's light as a feather. I never touch keyboards in SFP. I'm still thinking an old Pulsar II or Scope card in a bullet proof rackmount PC would give me something unobtainable with any other option other than the Fractal Axe FX III. Seriously, I can duplicate 95% of what I want from the Fractal, which is what I'm after on my Scope setup. The stereo cue mix I can get enhances my immediate "sonic comfort zone" and I've always wanted to achieve something similar live without hauling two amps around. I'd still always haul an amp setup as well for backup. I have a talented guitarist friend who for 40 years has been on the cutting edge of all things Mac, midi, iPad music related who flat out sez don't even think about an iPad or computer for live gigs unless you want to be constantly stressed out...so there's that. I just wish my Pulsar card hadn't taken a dive so I could begin to at least try out this game plan.

Nice tone on your setup Astroman. I will keep investigating iPad options. If I buy yet another interface it must be fully current model iPad Pro USB-C compliant without all the extra needed adapters and "funky 28AWG wires that will short just by looking at them". The SSL2+ has caught my eye.

[dante]

The SSL2+ looks good - but likely USB2. Also take a look at the Zoom UAC2 - which is USB3. I have the Zoom UAC8 - great kit.

https://www.zoom.co.jp/products/audio-c ... -converter

[dawman]

Thanks astroman. I have been a fan of and tester for Paul’s reverbs from the beginning and have every verb of his. Unparalleled to my ears. As I’m looking for the perfect stereo setup to sonically please me in small, low volume wine tasting room gigs and already have that sound in my studio, I thought, why keep trying to reinvent the wheel? I have all the tube amps/pedalboard toys I need for my occasional 7pc band with horns/full tilt boogie gigs, which sadly now are all cancelled. Playing solo is more demanding as there’s no lush array of my fellow musicians to blend with. I have a new 12.9” iPad Pro and know little about employing that as my solo guitar rig. I will investigate your ideas and hunt for forums that cover this topic. I’m just so spoiled with the current clarity and breadth of lush detail I’ve become accustomed to that I’d have to hear an iPad rig to believe it could come close to satisfying me.

Paul told me a funny story about setting up Scope in Hans Zimmer’s studio. The Sony rep was trying to sell Hans a $20,000 reverb unit. They compared it on the spot with Paul’s 2032L IIRC, and the Sony rep was sweating bullets saying, “Well, ours is clearly better”. Hans replied, “Not $20,000 better”.

The Verbs in Scope will work live but you really have to crank them from the inside of a Master Effects Module.
The less connections the better too.
I’ve been using them live since 2006.

My hardware verbs sound better for Piano when I want more depth. But TC and Strymon are far more expensive and sound the best when I gate them with an ADSR EG.

I always love the big lush but have to reduce it by gating, as the verbs sound the best with long decay, largest room size settings, then clipping the body/duration.

Right now I’m digging the ReLabs Plate.
iPad has lots of great apps too.
They sound really good on guitars and I like mine for MIDI Controls/WiFi with a Bome Box.

Would love to try 2032L.
Any links?

[BRG]

I have no idea where Paul Tanti is these days. Never have I heard reverbs with such a long, unadulterated tail as Paul's. Absolutely world class. Glad I bought all of them in the early days.

[dawman]

I found him.
I’ll see what I can do with these.
The one of his I have is metallic like an old software verb from the late 90s.
But it was the iVerb freebie.

[astroman]

GaryB once mentioned they sold a lot of Scope system just for running the PT Reverbs back in the Creamware days.
I don't mind the (techical) quality of a reverb/delay but HOW it melts with the source (or what acoustic scenery it creates).
If your PT is a perfect match for your guitar sound, then that's just it.

Warp69 also quit the platform and went 'native' with his LX480 project, starting Relab.
I like the Sonsig approach a lot, in particular for ease of use.
https://relabdevelopment.com/product/sonsig-rev-a/

[dante]

This is what I'm using for reverb - kicks ass - seriously. I just use one knob and I'm there. My Lex 244 now gathers virtual dust - along with all the others.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?time_cont ... e=emb_logo

[dawman]

GaryB once mentioned they sold a lot of Scope system just for running the PT Reverbs back in the Creamware days.
I don't mind the (techical) quality of a reverb/delay but HOW it melts with the source (or what acoustic scenery it creates).
If your PT is a perfect match for your guitar sound, then that's just it.

Warp69 also quit the platform and went 'native' with his LX480 project, starting Relab.
I like the Sonsig approach a lot, in particular for ease of use.
https://relabdevelopment.com/product/sonsig-rev-a/

That’s the most important part and why in some venues I have to use hardware because that depth comes from wrapping around the source audio rather than providing lush tails.

Polo Lounge is a great club, great stage, lighting and PA provided, but only the TC and Strymons get the sound I need because the stage is carpeted and also has bass traps.

Chasing the best sound around is a way of life for me...