Definitive Scope PCI card host PC?

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bigovum
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Definitive Scope PCI card host PC?

Post by bigovum » Sun Dec 17, 2017 3:10 am

Hi All. Great to see v7 released. I’m thinking of bringing my 3 cards out of retirement. I want a modern quiet PC to house them running Windows 10. I’ve done the Xeon Win XP builds recommended years ago here; there must be a better way? There seems to be a few new motherboards that have PCi slots... Have external enclosures improved?

So, what’s a modern, quiet, PC setup look like?

Thanks for any help and thanks for still being here; I’m looking forward to getting set up again.

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garyb
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Re: Definitive PC?

Post by garyb » Sun Dec 17, 2017 11:24 am

well, since PCI slots are obsolete, the latest motherboards probably will not have 3 slots. you MAY find some Z87-based socket 1150 motherboards, but a new one might be tough. that is a pretty current choice, however, only a few years old. it will perform more or less on par with the current systems. earlier socket 1156 motherboards would be a sure bet, but they're a little older. still, performance would be plenty good and would be a HUUUUUGGGE upgrade from what you previously owned.

most current PC cases are pretty quiet.

JD
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Re: Definitive PC?

Post by JD » Sun Dec 17, 2017 12:50 pm

what about these from NIXSYS /
http://www.nixsys.com/pci-slot-computers/nx-p61.html
scroll down toward bottom to see the details. it is a full tower that is configurable during purchase, which i like as i want to move onto playing rather than building a system from scratch.

i don't know whether the chipset and processor specs are compatible with older PCI scope/pulsar cards or not.

gary, do you have any insight into chipset and processor compatibility?

Intel® H61 Express chipset
Socket LGA 1155 Socket
Supported CPU Series Intel® 2nd and 3rd Gen Core i7/i5/i3 / Pentium, Celeron Series Processors
System Bus 1600/1333/1066 MHz

the do have 5 PCI slots

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garyb
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Re: Definitive PC?

Post by garyb » Sun Dec 17, 2017 1:33 pm

in the past, socket 1155 is one of the worst choices.

melted
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Re: Definitive PC?

Post by melted » Sun Dec 17, 2017 3:19 pm

I consider the setup listed below relatively modern and very quiet because it uses:
- a new solid state drive
- a new full size tower chock full of quiet fans
- a quiet cpu cooler; and,
- a cpu/motherboard combination that can be easily overclocked (though I haven't found a need to do this).

My hardware selections were based on planetz threads; hardware reviews at newegg, amazon and tomshardware; and the hardware selecting guide at pcpartpicker.com. This hardware and Win 10 are working very well with one Pulsar II and one Scope SRB card (21 total DSP) and Version 5.1 and 7 of Scope. When I say working well, it's for the complexity of my Scope projects which may not be as great as the complexity of your Scope projects.

My setup:
Windows 10 Home Version
Intel I7-4790K (used, but a favorite of overclockers and according to tomshardware.com, not significantly slower than today's fastest new chip)
Noctua NH-D14 cpu cooler
GIGABYTE GA-Z97X-UD5H LGA 1150 Intel Z97 motherboard (the Z97 chipset & 1150 socket seem to be the most stable combination of modern mortherboard configs for Scope according to many planetz threads)
Samsung SSD 960 EVO 250GB M.2 hard drive
G.Skill Trident X Series 16GB DDR3 2133 ram
EVGA GT 710 1GB DDR3 64-bit Single Slot graphics card (very inexpensive)
CORSAIR RMx Series RM550X 550W 80 PLUS Gold (very stable and efficient)
Phanteks Enthoo Pro Series PH-ES614P_BK ATX Full Tower (easily takes full length 15 DSP cards)
Some of the above items I bought used. Some of the new components I bought were as cheap as used components because, like the SSD and full tower, because they were on sale with rebates - in the US you can find such deals listed on a dedicated reddit.com thread and on slickdeals.com.

Although my motherboard has only two pci slots, I think you can do a web search for comparable 3 pci slot cards. For example, pcpartpicker.com gave me the following list of motherboards as having a z97 chipset, 1150 socket and 3 pci slots:
MSI Z97-Gaming 3
Gigabyte GA-Z97-D3H
MSI Z97-G43
MSI Z97 U3 Plus
Asus Z97-C
MSI Z97-G43 GAMING
ASRock Z97 Extreme3
I didn't check which of the above are still manufactured, but I've never had a problem with my used purchases except for one used power supply. Lesson learned: do not buy used power supplies, it's not worth it, because you can easily fry a motherboard and cpu real quick with bad power and new power supplies are inexpensive.

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valis
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Re: Definitive PC?

Post by valis » Sun Dec 17, 2017 10:44 pm

Agreed on used power supplies.

Do you guys think we can assemble a few builds so that I can put them on the main part of the site for users to reference? Thinking something like the tonymac86 buyer's guide page, though in that case we would have a few systems similar to the way they present the "CustoMac ATX" & "CustoMac Budget ATX" builds (no mini's will work here, no need to cover purchasing supported peripherals as that guide does etc).

If so, I would sticky this while we do so and then we can assemble the info on the frontend of the site.

fidox
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Re: Definitive PC?

Post by fidox » Mon Dec 18, 2017 7:49 am

I have very silent configuration.
My motherboard was one of the last with 3 pci slots (commercial).
Supports 6/7th processor generation.
Intel i7 6700
DDR4 16gb
Intel water cooler
Silent graphic card (there's no room for bigger cards with fans) , but for music purpose is silent enough :)
Power supply (also very silent)

https://www.gigabyte.com/Motherboard/GA ... -rev-10#ov

I also have 3 cards connected, so if i want to change configuration in the future, only option will be one 15dsp card or external. :D

JD
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Re: Definitive PC?

Post by JD » Tue Dec 19, 2017 7:33 pm

Fidox,
i see some of the Gigabyte GA-Z170-D3H on ebay, you currently have 3 scope/creamware cards running on this motherboard all right? I have 2 @ 4 DSP and 1 @ 6 DSP and looking for upgrade. no issues? what operating system version ? 32 or 64 bit ?

fidox
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Re: Definitive PC?

Post by fidox » Wed Dec 20, 2017 12:24 am

JD wrote:
Tue Dec 19, 2017 7:33 pm
Fidox,
i see some of the Gigabyte GA-Z170-D3H on ebay, you currently have 3 scope/creamware cards running on this motherboard all right? I have 2 @ 4 DSP and 1 @ 6 DSP and looking for upgrade. no issues? what operating system version ? 32 or 64 bit ?
Yes, i have 3 cards, 2 x Pulsar XTC + 1 x Luna II.
I have this configuration about year and a half.
I had no issues at all.
At the moment i have Windows 10 Pro 64bit.

Masterverbs loading = 12 (after 13 pci limit)

Like I said, in my experiences, pci-e graphic card is a must, cause i do not trust cpu/onboard graphic, on my second build/computer,
i was using on-board graphic and there were some pops and clicks in sequencer program (Cubase).
If you will use your computer just for music producing then look for silent pci-e card, which is slim enough, cause one pci slot is very close to pci-e slot, like you can see on mobo's picture.
I have now Radeon HD6450 DDR3 2gb ram:
https://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/product/ ... phics.html
and was also using Radeon R5 230:
https://www.dateks.lv/en/cenas/videokar ... _silent_lp
so, anything will go at that kind of measure.

I have 2666mhz DDR 4 , 16gb :
Kingston DDR4 2666MHz CL15 HyperX Fury Black Series 4x4gb

If you want to use 7th generation CPU, like i7 7700/7700k Kaby Lake, you need to update mobo, to the latest bios version.
But i saw some tests on net, there's really little difference between 6700/7700 models.

I didn't have any experiences with socket 1150, cause they mentioned here that those were very stable, so i can just tell for socket 1151. :)

bigovum
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Re: Definitive PC?

Post by bigovum » Thu Dec 21, 2017 10:19 am

Awesome thanks all. If I go this way then the Gigabyte mobo looks good. I've spec'd out a nice quiet system for around £760. Wondering if the 15dsp card will fit in the mobo with the other 2 smaller (Pulsar 1, Pulsar SRB).

Now if the Xite were to receive an OSX version - I'd just buy that and sell my cards and forgo getting a PC at all... :) Any rumours?

Thanks again.

fidox
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Re: Definitive PC?

Post by fidox » Thu Dec 21, 2017 10:28 am

bigovum wrote:
Thu Dec 21, 2017 10:19 am
Wondering if the 15dsp card will fit in the mobo with the other 2 smaller (Pulsar 1, Pulsar SRB).
I think if using last pci slot (at bottom) and mid-tower (i have Chieftec), it should :)

Yea, xite-1 would be nice :)

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valis
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Re: Definitive PC?

Post by valis » Thu Dec 21, 2017 12:37 pm

Thanks for the build info guys, let's keep it coming and I'm going to sticky this so I can correlate some other threads in the Tech section with this post, and combine all that information into a frontend article for users to reference.

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bassdude
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Re: Definitive PC?

Post by bassdude » Fri Dec 22, 2017 4:59 am

Is there a better board than the one I currently have (Intel DH55HC, BIOS TCIBX10H.86A.0037.2010.0614.1712 06/14/2010)? WinXP 32bit dedicated non internet connected system with most non-necessary services disabled. Its an old 1156 board, but I am getting PCI limit reached errors with only half of 21 DSP used with V7. Maybe there's some tweaks I've forgotten? Loaded RMX160, SC ambience and SC plate reverbs (3 in total). Just mucking around with v7 and planning on getting back into it. I would be interested in building a stable system.
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fidox
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Re: Definitive PC?

Post by fidox » Fri Dec 22, 2017 5:40 am

bassdude wrote:
Fri Dec 22, 2017 4:59 am
Maybe there's some tweaks?
probably no, it is as it is.
i can load 6 masterverbs on my second computer with socket 1155 and it's about at 70% on dsp meter.

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garyb
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Re: Definitive PC?

Post by garyb » Fri Dec 22, 2017 12:02 pm

the dsp meter and PCI capacity are NOT connected.

if you run out of ANY resources, you are out. it has nothing to do with stability.

those 3 reverbs may represent a million delay lines. that's bound to eat resources.

fidox
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Re: Definitive PC?

Post by fidox » Fri Dec 22, 2017 2:03 pm

garyb wrote:
Fri Dec 22, 2017 12:02 pm
the dsp meter and PCI capacity are NOT connected.
true :)

fraz
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Re: Definitive PC?

Post by fraz » Tue Dec 26, 2017 4:00 am

bigovum wrote:
Sun Dec 17, 2017 3:10 am
Hi All. Great to see v7 released. I’m thinking of bringing my 3 cards out of retirement. I want a modern quiet PC to house them running Windows 10. I’ve done the Xeon Win XP builds recommended years ago here; there must be a better way? There seems to be a few new motherboards that have PCi slots... Have external enclosures improved?

So, what’s a modern, quiet, PC setup look like?

Thanks for any help and thanks for still being here; I’m looking forward to getting set up again.
There may be a solution for you but it depends on whether Ryzen chipsets work with Scope 7 PCI cards - Maybe Garyb could chip in

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garyb
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Re: Definitive PC?

Post by garyb » Tue Dec 26, 2017 11:42 am

why me?

you can test Ryzen.

fraz
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Re: Definitive PC?

Post by fraz » Tue Dec 26, 2017 12:27 pm

garyb wrote:
Tue Dec 26, 2017 11:42 am
why me?

you can test Ryzen.
I didn't mean you should test Ryzen - :) - The person that started the thread wants to use his PCI cards again but the 1150 are not available anymore as it looks like surplus has been sold off.

MSI have a B350 board or two or three that actually has 2 x PCI slots, granted not the three he was looking for but 2 is almost there. If these work with Scope 7 he is in luck and will be able to build a new system for his old cards, that is if Ryzen will work - :)

I posted with reference to you because I thought maybe you would know - because you know lots - :) - That is why -

It may be good to know from S|C direct here on the forum which chipsets will work - or which chipsets they are working on to make them work.

Last year I thought to myself that soon-ish people will be looking for boards with PCI slots - and with Scope 7 there will be renewed interest or increased interest but even if Scope 7 had not arrived people would still seek PCI boards for their PCI cards as time goes on, that is if they kept their cards.

Now we could have a situation where there will be fewer and fewer boards with PCI slots but people may still be seeking them.

If demand is high enough maybe the board makers may keep making boards with them on.

Who knows maybe a lower end chipset on 1151 may have a board with 2 of them on - There is a Z370 board with 1 x PCI slot

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garyb
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Re: Definitive PC?

Post by garyb » Tue Dec 26, 2017 1:45 pm

...or people can use an older motherboard.
the PCI slot is obsolete. there are a lot of older motherboards that offer great performance and that have PCI slots that work. SC cannot test all the new motherboards, and there aren't many(any?) that have 3 slots.

i AM interested in the XITE's performance on the newer motherboards. i have asked Holger for info on what rigs the v7 tests were done on.

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