Ferrofish AE

[garyb]

happycritter, if you're hearing sound smeared by ADAT, then there might be a clock issue that could be improved with a really good clock. both the Ramsa and Pulsar have good clocks, but neither is state of the art...the cable can also be part of the problem, but usually, if the data makes it to the other end in one piece, one digital format is about the same as another. there can be slight damage to the data that might not show as pops or clicks, but might manifest as a generally not-quite-right signal. cheap optical cables are not necessarily worse than expensive ones. glass is generally better than plastic, but both can develop microscopic fractures that degrade the audio, but still pass data. that's not a common problem, but it's far from impossible.

[Ricardo]

the A16 is VERY good. i'd put it up there with AD/DAs two or three times the price, easily. i've compared to Lynx and the newest Apogees and the A16 is as good as either.

Thanks Gary. And I don't think I'll be needing MADI anyway. Thanks Bud for clarifying all that.

[happycritter]

I'll have to A/B my 'bad' TOSlink cable with a known 'good' one to be persuaded this is possible - and that opportunity will arrive rather soon

Knowing that the imperfections inherent to even the best 'quality' cable are quite large in comparison with the wavelength of light (transmission of data 1/0s) and the angle of internal reflection (and it's cosines/sines), then even larger ones seem quite moot. Having a perfectly polished surface is quite tricky (just ask the University of Arizona's Mirror Lab), even more so for the inside of very long tube...

So, in my limited experience, either the TOSlink cables transmits or it doesn't. I'll report back how well-prepared that dish of crow is...

[garyb]

that's true, but it might work when it works, but the not when it doesn't. if it doesn't work for brief periods of time, you might not notice anything except that it didn't seem to sound as good as you would like.

i never said "you have a bad cable", only that it is something that happens occasionally. dust can make a connection intermittent as well. heck, the optical hardware itself might be faulty, it's unlikely, but not in the realm of impossibility. all i'm saying is that ADAT is no more smeared than aes/ebu inherently. i don't doubt that you have experienced what you have experienced, though.

it's just networking. the thing is that it must all happen in realtime. this is where good converters(and a good clock) are important. if it's not realtime, a sloppy connection can use redundancy to fill in the blanks of any missing data. an ADAT connection obviously can't do that.

[happycritter]

that's true, but it might work when it works, but the not when it doesn't. if it doesn't work for brief periods of time, you might not notice anything except that it didn't seem to sound as good as you would like.

Actually I'm beginning to see your point as my prejudice wears-off (too long a time in concert production with analog XLR/Phono cables). What's to say the audio from the monitors isn't causing the cable to move enough to cause intermittent errors (or at least adding to others to become more significant)?


BTW, I did mean the "dish of crow" would be for me to dine upon - not sure that came across the right way...

[bassdude]

.....
I was referring to the signal quality of ADAT I/Os through my rig (WRDA-7 -> Pulsar I 4dsp).
Could just be the cabling as I borrowed an ADATxt and had the same results (used 48 & 44.1 and no real difference in audio quality).
.....

There must be another problem then. I used to use a DA7 over ADAT as well and it worked very well. The only weak point with the DA7 was the onboard compression IMO which I never used anyway. I pretty much just used the desk as an ADDA at the time.

[happycritter]

.....
I was referring to the signal quality of ADAT I/Os through my rig (WRDA-7 -> Pulsar I 4dsp).
Could just be the cabling as I borrowed an ADATxt and had the same results (used 48 & 44.1 and no real difference in audio quality).
.....

There must be another problem then. I used to use a DA7 over ADAT as well and it worked very well. The only weak point with the DA7 was the onboard compression IMO which I never used anyway. I pretty much just used the desk as an ADDA at the time.

The DA7 locked/synched with the DAW and Pulsar 1 (I clearly recall because that was like the coolest thing ever in my little world - having a computer 'talk' to a mixing board) and all three ADAT cards on the DA7 were nearly all equally 'bad' (odds of all 3 being bad are pretty slim). That just leaves the dust and the cables...

I pretty-much just use the DA7 as a 2-ch. AD/DA since I don't really need to multitrack at the moment. Latency free recording because I just monitor through the desk (and playback through it as well).

Ferrofish - hellasexy.

When it's time for the Ferrofish, I'll just use its I/Os through the channel inserts of the DA7 (which, IIRC are analog) so I get the nice DA7 pres (and/or any outboard pres) feeding the 'fish and I can use some 'free' EQ here and there as needed. The routing options, automation, and flexibility is pretty stout with an XITE, Ferrofish, and DA7 working together.

[garyb]

again, ADAT CAN'T color the sound. it's merely passing the EXACT same data that any other digital interface would send. it's the same data the the analog outs' DA converter uses. the data is not processed in any way.

[happycritter]

Yes. Aside from the timestamp, nothing changes with the data... The digital processing inside the DA7 is fine as I've manipulated things on the digital side and no smearing had occurred, only when interfacing with the card through ADAT. Not a big issue for me ATM because I have no need to multitrack and it isn't the Pulsar 1, or the ADATxt, or the DA7 for that matter because any pair from that group can render the same smeared I/O (but the cables were all the same - hahahaha).

Back to the Ferrofish: I love the idea of a truly scalable product. It is a profoundly smart product in that it can scale-up in more than one dimension (meaning, you can increase I/Os by adding another Ferrofish or you can keep your original I/O number and increase the resolution by adding another Ferrofish - or do both at the same time by adding three Ferrofish) with a very elegant solution.