Scope 4.0 v 4.5 v 5.0

[polemic]

Hi and thank you for the contributions thus far.

I am on the precipice of obtaining an old Creamware 6DSP card with classic IO plate and I have some questions if I may be indulged.

AFAIK if you have a license for version 4.0, it allows you to run 4.5, albeit with reduced features, is that correct?

Also, in relation to 4.0/4.5 could someone please tell me if that might mean 5.0 could be run, even if only the driver is improved, ie ASIO or must you pay for that separately?

Thanks all!

[Mr Arkadin]

AFAIK if you have a license for version 4.0, it allows you to run 4.5, albeit with reduced features, is that correct?

The 4.0 software is really 4.5 (I think the splash screen even says 4.5) but to get the extras you pay for the upgrade. It's not so much that 4.0 has reduced features but that 4.5 has additional devices. The 4.5 upgrade will allow you to upgrade to 5.0 for free, or you could just jump straight to 5.0, which is definitely worth it.

Also, in relation to 4.0/4.5 could someone please tell me if that might mean 5.0 could be run, even if only the driver is improved, ie ASIO or must you pay for that separately?

Scope 5.0 has different drivers and so you either have to run 40.0/4.5 or Scope 5.0, you can't easily run both on the same system unless you enjoy going into the driver manager each time and swapping the drivers manually. It is a paid upgrade from 4.0 or a free upgrade from 4.5.

[polemic]

hi Mr Arkadin

Thanks for that info, very handy indeed!

Could you also tell me please, were many (or any) of the plugins with 5.0 upgraded as from 4.0/4.5, since if I use the devices as VST plugins (coming over from cubase world) are there any wrappers or are they standard libraries?

I'm using a PC so no issues with version types just numbers.

Cheers

[Mr Arkadin]

Most of the 5.0 devices are the same - some are newly optimised I think but I couldn't tell you which ones. There are lots of new compressors and reverbs (the new reverbs are excellent and used to be sold separately so this is an amazing deal for the quality).

If you are referring to VST Integration Mode (formerly XTC) I have no knowledge of this as I have never used it - the Scope window is far more flexible and it's really not hard to pipe audio in and out of Scope with the ASIO modules. Hopefully someone else with that knowledge will post - but all I say to you is at least give the Scope environment a chance even if you decide to go VSTIM (XTC).

What OS is your PC btw?

[polemic]

What OS is your PC btw?

Vista and yes I will likely use the scope environment for mixing but one thing I cannot quite grasp is can you use cubase for example at the same time as scope mode?

If so can you also use scope as VST devices as well, say for example I have a scope synth in the cubase rack but want to use the scope mixer at the same time so all the levels in cubase are at zero. Is that possible or is Sonic Core a sequencer as well?

Thanks again Mr Arkadin

[Mr Arkadin]

Vista and yes I will likely use the scope environment for mixing but one thing I cannot quite grasp is can you use cubase for example at the same time as scope mode?

If so can you also use scope as VST devices as well, say for example I have a scope synth in the cubase rack but want to use the scope mixer at the same time so all the levels in cubase are at zero. Is that possible or is Sonic Core a sequencer as well?

OK PC is fine (I prefer XP but I like to keep my OS old )

The easiest way to think of Scope is as a hardware mixer - it's much more than that but it's a good starting point. So Scope 'sits in the background' as it were and you then launch Cubase (you have to have the right ASIO modules and number of ASIO channels set up in Scope first). Now buss all your individual Cubase channels (including VST instruments) to the Scope mixer, and then the stereo output of the Scope mixer can go to your monitoring and also back to Cubase when you want to record a final stereo master. You can add whatever Scope synths and effects you want here.

So all you do is flip between the two windows. You can use any combination of Cubase VSTi plug-ins and Scope plug-ins in any routing combination imaginable (or even not yet imagined) - it's completely flexible. Although Scope has a very good recorder (VDAT) it is more of a live player tool as there is no sequencer.

Scope Ex1.JPG (157.72 KiB) Viewed 2900 times

So in the above example I have 24 stereo ASIO Source channels coming from Cubase. The first ten are going into the Scope mixer. I have also added the Minimax synth and decided to put that through space f's FAT module before going into Channel 11 of the Scope mixer. That whole mix is going to my monitoring (plus some meters). When I'm ready I would route it into the ASIO Dest module to go back to Cubase. The Sequencer MIDI Source is Cubase's MIDI output and is driving Minimax. This is all in addition to whatever you normally do in Cubase: you lose nothing but add much functionality.

[polemic]

Nice description.

So I can use Scope synths inside Cubase or some other DAW and route the outputs via ASIO into the scope environment and mix there have I got that right?

If true does it mean therefore that if I have something like a powercore I can use Access Virus and modify it with scope modules (without using scope effects in the DAW) in the scope environment?

I have various audio interfaces, at least one has ADAT i/os and can work with the classic IO plate I'm guessing.

Thanks again for that detailed information.

[Mr Arkadin]

So I can use Scope synths inside Cubase or some other DAW and route the outputs via ASIO into the scope environment and mix there have I got that right?

Not exactly. To actually edit the synths you would flip to the Scope window and twiddle the knobs there (Cubase can still be playing, you can even set up a remote for the transport if you desire). The MIDI side of it however is controlled from Cubase. XTC mode allows the interface to open in Cubase like a VSTi, but for the flexibility you lose I don't personally think it's worth it (others will disagree). Eveything else you say about ASIO and mixing in Scope is correct.

If true does it mean therefore that if I have something like a powercore I can use Access Virus and modify it with scope modules (without using scope effects in the DAW) in the scope environment?

You having something much more than a Powercore. (You knew I'd say that). But yes, Scope is hardware and can run happily on its own without a sequencer as an effects box if you wanted to with no latency (and very low latency when used with a sequencer). I think the Powercores have or used to have quite a bit of latency. I run my cards at 4-7ms (I only use 7ms because Kontakt is so crap).

I have various audio interfaces, at least one has ADAT i/os and can work with the classic IO plate I'm guessing.

I think the classic has 2x ADAT ports so you're good to experiment there.

[polemic]

So I can use Scope synths inside Cubase or some other DAW and route the outputs via ASIO into the scope environment and mix there have I got that right?

Not exactly. To actually edit the synths you would flip to the Scope window and twiddle the knobs there (Cubase can still be playing, you can even set up a remote for the transport if you desire). The MIDI side of it however is controlled from Cubase.

Cool, that's what I needed to hear, I'd not be able to work without my fave MIDI sequencer!

XTC mode allows the interface to open in Cubase like a VSTi, but for the flexibility you lose I don't personally think it's worth it (others will disagree). Eveything else you say about ASIO and mixing in Scope is correct.

Right, but if I do choose to use only Cubase and the Pulsar as the audio interface, is there a way to save presets and reload them in Scope mode, or would I be stuck for example with using VST3 presets?

If true does it mean therefore that if I have something like a powercore I can use Access Virus and modify it with scope modules (without using scope effects in the DAW) in the scope environment?

You having something much more than a Powercore. (You knew I'd say that). But yes, Scope is hardware and can run happily on its own without a sequencer as an effects box if you wanted to with no latency (and very low latency when used with a sequencer). I think the Powercores have or used to have quite a bit of latency. I run my cards at 4-7ms (I only use 7ms because Kontakt is so crap).

Powercore does have latency, but that's ok since I only use it for MIDI playback and mixing not playing live.

I have various audio interfaces, at least one has ADAT i/os and can work with the classic IO plate I'm guessing.

I think the classic has 2x ADAT ports so you're good to experiment there.

Sounds cool, I was going to get an RME but this might work just as well.

Thank you Mr Arkadin!

[Mr Arkadin]

Right, but if I do choose to use only Cubase and the Pulsar as the audio interface, is there a way to save presets and reload them in Scope mode, or would I be stuck for example with using VST3 presets?

Not sure what you mean here. Scope has its own presets and projects that you save - nothing to do with Cubase or VST3 at all. You can send program changes to Scope synths from Cubase, or just save the Scope project and next time you open it it should have the last presets you used in whichever synths, effects, etc. that you used. You'll find lots of synth presets that I compiled and made here if you decide to get the card.

[starcorp]

So I can use Scope synths inside Cubase or some other DAW and route the outputs via ASIO into the scope environment and mix there have I got that right?

for clearing:
if you use scope plugins as vst effects, you can´t flip to the Scope window .

you can only use xtc mode OR scope mode.

regards jan

[dante]

polermic, heres a quick start guide to getting Scope running with Cubase in Scope mode

www.hitfoundry.com/issue_01/cubase.htm

[garyb]

think of the Scope environment as a room full of gear. the asio i/o are the hardware jacks on the multitrack recorder that the sequencer is. the sequencer has the role of a vs2480 or similar multitrack recorder in a studio full of gear. vst effects are like the builtin effects on a multitrack. if you use the multiple outs on the multitrack into a real studio board and then do the mix on the real board, that is similar to what happens in Scope, with similar benefits...

[polemic]

Right, but if I do choose to use only Cubase and the Pulsar as the audio interface, is there a way to save presets and reload them in Scope mode, or would I be stuck for example with using VST3 presets?

Not sure what you mean here. Scope has its own presets and projects that you save - nothing to do with Cubase or VST3 at all. You can send program changes to Scope synths from Cubase, or just save the Scope project and next time you open it it should have the last presets you used in whichever synths, effects, etc. that you used. You'll find lots of synth presets that I compiled and made here if you decide to get the card.

Hi I meant am I able to save presets for scope devices in XTC mode and use them later in Scope environment if need be.

[polemic]

So I can use Scope synths inside Cubase or some other DAW and route the outputs via ASIO into the scope environment and mix there have I got that right?

for clearing:
if you use scope plugins as vst effects, you can´t flip to the Scope window .

you can only use xtc mode OR scope mode.

regards jan

So it's one or the other correct?

Are you saying that even if I use completely different devices, say a synth in XTC but effects in scope.

Seems pretty limited IMV

[dante]

think of the Scope environment as a room full of gear. the asio i/o are the hardware jacks on the multitrack recorder that the sequencer is. the sequencer has the role of a vs2480 or similar multitrack recorder in a studio full of gear. vst effects are like the builtin effects on a multitrack. if you use the multiple outs on the multitrack into a real studio board and then do the mix on the real board, that is similar to what happens in Scope, with similar benefits...

...except easier. If you want to change your roland tape echo from being a send effect instead of an insert effect :

1) IN HARDWARE STUDIO : Go to back of mixing desk but you cant just swap the cables from insert to send because the insert is a ring-tip-sleeve job . Now you have to go to FX rack and remove that cable and put 2 mono stereo jacks instead of the 'Y' cable that was used for insert. But in moving rack to get to the back of it several other cables from the rats nest come loose under foot. You plug some in but have to go back to desk to test you've got the right ones. Nothing works. In deperation now you pull everything out and have to go to OfficeWorks to buy a cable-labeller. You are swearing coz all you wanted to do was put echo on vocals and guitar at the same time.

2) IN SCOPE : 10 second job with mouse.

[garyb]

So I can use Scope synths inside Cubase or some other DAW and route the outputs via ASIO into the scope environment and mix there have I got that right?

for clearing:
if you use scope plugins as vst effects, you can´t flip to the Scope window .

you can only use xtc mode OR scope mode.

regards jan

So it's one or the other correct?

Are you saying that even if I use completely different devices, say a synth in XTC but effects in scope.

Seems pretty limited IMV

actually, Scope mode is the least limited option available. there are always limits of some kind.

[dante]

Seems pretty limited IMV

Well, I use Scope, Cubase and Reason together in Scope mode, which means I can :

1. Put Cubase, Reason or Scope effects on Reason instruments
2. Have Reason and Cubase tracks pefectly synced together
3. Put Cubase or Scope effects on Cubase audio tracks
4. Put Cubase or Scope effects on Cubase VST instruments (including matching BPM delay times on Scope delays).
5. Probably put VST effects on Scope instruments with some ASIO routing ( although Ive not actually done this ).
6. Mix down the lot back into Cubase all in the box unless I choose to insert a hardware compressor on the lot.
7. Save VST presets in Cubase and Scope presets in Scope.
8. Save out both Scope and Cubase projects so that every thing works next session.

Seems pretty versatile to me.

[polemic]

Seems pretty versatile to me.

Maybe I am not understanding something?

Are ALL the DSP's "off limits" when using one mode or the other?

[dante]

No they're not off limits. Maybe this will help :

http://www.hitfoundry.com/issue_01/route_it.htm

Maybe try to get your head around Scope mode first.

Basically you have a window where you can place any of the I/O's shown in the above link, be they hardware outside your box or other programs inside your PC.

The I/O's are just graphical representations of your PC softwares drivers or external devices.

Then you can join any of these I/O to Scope ( DSP ) devices. Note each driver comes in 'Source' (red arrows) and 'Dest' (green arrows) so you can send or receive anything you want from a Scope device to any other non-scope entity (that has a driver).

You see, since you can join any red arrow to any green arrow (and vice versa), so its really up to you how you want things wired. If you drop a Scope device to the project window, it too will have red and green connectors, like Mr Arkadin example above.