PlanetZ forums - scopeusers.com

ok.

thunderbolt 3 doesn't work, if it's also usb.

robinette wrote: ↑Sun Sep 13, 2020 9:27 am

garyb wrote: ↑Fri Jun 26, 2020 7:57 pm if it's called "thunderebolt/usb3", you have all the needed information.

Isn't "thunderebolt / usb3". It's "thunderebolt 3 / usb-C".
It looks alike, but it is not the same.

Regards.

USB-C just describes the connector type, 1.x/2.x/3.x is the protocol which gives you the capabilities & signalling speed(s). Typically you'll find the connector corresponds to the type of protocol/connection as the signaling requires it.

valis wrote: ↑Sun Sep 13, 2020 1:18 pm

robinette wrote: ↑Sun Sep 13, 2020 9:27 am

garyb wrote: ↑Fri Jun 26, 2020 7:57 pm if it's called "thunderebolt/usb3", you have all the needed information.

Isn't "thunderebolt / usb3". It's "thunderebolt 3 / usb-C".
It looks alike, but it is not the same.

Regards.

USB-C just describes the connector type, 1.x/2.x/3.x is the protocol which gives you the capabilities & signalling speed(s). Typically you'll find the connector corresponds to the type of protocol/connection as the signaling requires it.

That's how it is. That is why I have commented that the port of that laptop is thunderbolt 3, because in the specifications of the laptop it is clearly written that it is thunderbolt 3 / USB-C (and also in the photograph of that port there is the thunderbolt symbol).

https://www.asus.com/Laptops/ProArt-Stu ... X-W730G5T/


I do not understand all this conversation that has been about this when it was so obvious.

A greeting.

the only Expresscard to Thunderbolt adapter that has been proven to work is the Sonnet Technologies offering. afaik, it does not work with USB-C(at least with the XITE-1). there may have been other factors like cable choice in the instances where it doesn't work.


personally, i really don't care. it is an experiment or gamble at best. HAVE AT IT IF YOU KNOW BETTER! if it works for you, i would like to know, so that i can confirm it for others.

Thunderbolt is technically a PCIe connection, so if the adapter works, the connection will work.

people think that the only issue is raw bandwidth, but the timing of that bandwidth is more important than the simple raw numbers.

why all the discussion?
it's so that people aren't heartlessly encouraged to purchase things that don't work.

robinette wrote: ↑Wed Sep 16, 2020 11:21 am That's how it is. That is why I have commented that the port of that laptop is thunderbolt 3, because in the specifications of the laptop it is clearly written that it is thunderbolt 3 / USB-C (and also in the photograph of that port there is the thunderbolt symbol).

https://www.asus.com/Laptops/ProArt-Stu ... X-W730G5T/



Th3.jpg

I do not understand all this conversation that has been about this when it was so obvious.

A greeting.

I thought the question in this topic was whether anyone has tried this, and if it would work.

USB3.x, USB-C "connectors' & Thunderbolt 3 have a lot of overlap, and a TB3 *should* be implemented via an Intel controller on any Intel board. Some board makers give an additional 'slot' which is basically a PCIe slot equivalent to the needed bandwidth & width for the implementation tehy give. Companies like Gigabyte have their flavor, some laptops use the various mini-PCIe/M.2 flavors to give the option of adding a controller etc.

Why does this matter? As you surely know, PCIe isn't always the same in terms of access to the CPU itself. Most consumer CPU's give basically 16x & 4x to the CPU until very recently, and AMD versions of Thunderbolt--while they do exist--are far more rare. Not sure I've seen one on a laptop, but I can't say they don't exist with custom builds out there from Clevo & other smaller vendors. I've seen many Mac Pro users add PCIe cards for Thunderbolt 2/3 functionality on "Classic Mac Pro's" as well, but there are certain things that fall apart in terms of professional use due to the age of the system.

So to know if "Thunderbolt 3" which uses the "USB-C" type of connector (and can use the cables interchangeably) will work, you would need to know HOW it's implemented. Gary will know much better than I how robust Xite, I don't own one (yet). Yet I do know with other bandwidth hungry devices that I use, or if that PCIe slot is sharing with other devices on a PLX switch or other method of multiplexing CPU & chipset things can get hairy.

What a negative waves :-O

I think it is superb! Finally there is a way to use the XITE1 on almost all new (professional) laptops comin' up the next years... I was almost thinking about selling, but this is a gamechanger!

Thanks for your continues support at the forum Gary and Valis!

Here’s a new modular designed laptop where the user picks what Bays can be added to the custom design.

https://www.digitaltrends.com/computing ... p-upgrade/

Sorry to re-activate this discussion, but did anyone try something in this direction in the meanwhile?

I'm willing to order the new Dell Precision 7560 or 7760, and if so, a Sonnet Echo Express SE1. I've just ordered a new PCI-e card from the SonnicCore shop (lost the old one somewhere in an old PC ) So I would be ready to test. If it doesn't work, I will just send the Sonnet back. And connect the Xite1 to an older i7 mini-pc instead.

Garry, how about Hyper Threading, etc. with an Intel Core i9-11950H or Intel Xeon W-11955M? Still the same? (DON'T)
The PCI-e Xite card isn't a so called "Low Profile" card right?

Thank you all!

Regards Tom.

yes, no hyperthreading.
hyperthreading is supposed to speed up the processing, and it does, for OFFLINE processes. remember, a real core must calculate a virtual core. there is nothing for free.

afaik, if the connection is a dedicated thunderbolt connection, it will work. if it's a usbc/thunderbolt connection it will not.

TOM.DJ wrote: ↑Mon Jun 21, 2021 11:14 am
The PCI-e Xite card isn't a so called "Low Profile" card right?

The size of the card didn´t change since the connector became HDMI instead of DVI on the card´s side.
The cards size works for LP.
The old card came w/ a LP slot bracket in addition to the normal one.
The newer card doesn´t,- you cannot use it LP.



Bud

robinette wrote: ↑Sun Sep 13, 2020 9:27 am

garyb wrote: ↑Fri Jun 26, 2020 7:57 pm if it's called "thunderebolt/usb3", you have all the needed information.

Isn't "thunderebolt / usb3". It's "thunderebolt 3 / usb-C".
It looks alike, but it is not the same.

Regards.

ok, that's true, but the point is the same. thunderbolt/usbc doesn't work for any of the users that i know of. it seems that combo connection is not a true pcie connection. the details don't matter if it does not work.

I finally did it, with partial success.

I have a Dell Precision 7560, i9, 64GB, with REAL thunderbolt 4 (2x), and bought a Sonnet Echo Express SE I. Technically Everything works, but...

When starting my DAW (Cubase 11 pro) I will immediately get a PCI capacity limit reached. I've also tried it without connecting my docking station to the other port, but no difference. When I remove ASIO -> SCOPE inputs and reduce them to 4 it works. So somehow the PCI capacity seems to be very low on sending data from PC to the XITE1.

I hope it can be improved some how, but I'm afraid not.

Anyone else?

Regards Tom.

What about checking the limit by other means like Masterverbs ?
I hardly can imagine, that there is a real bottleneck here.

That seems like a bus latency hit, but first run “system information” (type into start menu) and check the resource conflicts page for what is sharing with the chain you’re using.

Then post a screenshot showing the Xite card’s connection tree in device manager (view devices by connection)

nebelfuerst wrote: ↑Thu Nov 04, 2021 12:01 pm What about checking the limit by other means like Masterverbs ?
I hardly can imagine, that there is a real bottleneck here.

AFAIK, Masterverb test for XITE-1 is more or less meaningless.
I was able loading an insane number of Masterverbs on XITE-1,- 80+ or such.
It´s long time ago I did it, so I forgot.

Combined USB (3, 3.x,C) /Thunderbolt port bottleneck w/ laptops:

The problem is, you neverknow how it´s implemented by the manufacturer.
I guess, it´s mainboard design-, controller and chipset related.
Even you shall be able to use the USB-C port for both, USB-C or Thunderbolt, the whole thing might run on a quasi low priority level which is o.k. for USB-C but not for true Thunderbolt (PCIe)
It might also depend on the option disabling THAT USB controller for THAT port and enabling dedicated Thunderbolt in BIOS,- but even then, the priority level issue might remain because of the chipset in between.

I didn´t try on my Lenovo workstation type laptop because it also offers a PCIexpresscard34 slot in addition to 2x USB 2.0, 2x USB 3.0 and the dedicated Thunderbolt (3 ?) port w/ THAT icon,- but I know, I´d be able to activate/ deactivate Thunderbolt in BIOS.
And as always, activating Thunderbolt in BIOS cost something too,- one might lose the PCIexpresscard connectivity and/or the M.2 slot for WAN or SIM card or similar.



Bud

Let's see the device tree and resource overlap...that tells us how the TB port is implemented and how the motherboard maker handled things.

I'm putting a PC together for my XITE and just read this. I didn't buy the mobo for this purpose but it does have thunderbolt (ASUS ProArt Z490-CREATOR). I was wondering if anyone could give an opinion if the thunderbolt port I have would work with my XITE? I don't want to smoke my XITE by trying it out! Thanks!
https://www.asus.com/us/Motherboards-Co ... EATOR-10G/

no, usb3/usb-c thunderbolt connections are not true PCIe connections.

Maybe loptop models with Thunderbolt 4 can help me?