XITE: old vs new PCIe card

The Sonic Core XITE hardware platform for Scope

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Bud Weiser
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XITE: old vs new PCIe card

Post by Bud Weiser »

Hi !

To achieve max. data thruput w/ Z97,- should I get a/the new PCIe card ?

It´s because I wonder if the early cards support PCIe 1.0/1.1 (250MB/sec) and the newer ones PCIe 2.0 (500MB/sec) already.

I also got advise to put the XITE-1 PCIe card into one of the x4/ x8 / x16 PCIe slots because w/ Z97 chipset, those are directly connected to the CPU while there´s something different (southbridge / controller ???) happening w/ the x1 slots.

So, data thruput might matter a lot.

yes or no ?

:)

Bud
Last edited by Bud Weiser on Wed Nov 13, 2019 4:25 pm, edited 1 time in total.

dawman
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Re: XITE: old vs new PCIe card

Post by dawman »

Not sure if theres a difference but I dont see PCI Overflow messages if Im on a PCI 3 (blue slot).
The Blue or PCI 3 Slots go directly to the CPU.
4x 8x 16x that are black make an extra stop before going to the CPU.
Never saw any difference but as I said you dont get error messages and you can try the Master Verb Test.
Ive never done that cause if shit works I just starg playing until it doesnt work, doesn't happen after the build is set up and working.

Ive been using Blue for years now but little black PCI-e 1X slots are a tighter fit and work fine.

Are you using a rack case?
If so what size, 1U, 2U, 4U?

I know some great parts to make things more efficient and if a ribbon connector/riser is used make sure to get the more expensive 15-20 dollar ones.
The cheap ones aren’t worth melting...

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Bud Weiser
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Re: XITE: old vs new PCIe card

Post by Bud Weiser »

dawman wrote:
Fri Oct 18, 2019 10:13 pm
Not sure if theres a difference but I dont see PCI Overflow messages if Im on a PCI 3 (blue slot).
Yeah, but I´ve also never seen PCI overflow messages on ASUS P5WD Premium (socket 775) w/ just only 1 (one) PCIe x1 slot available,- this old (see above) XITE-1 PCIe card inserted.
But I´ve seen many other warning messages, mostly related to SAT connections.

In fact, w/ a 2nd gen XITE PCIe card, I´d hope minimizing these and get better data thruput,- perhaps ...
No ?
dawman wrote:
Fri Oct 18, 2019 10:13 pm
The Blue or PCI 3 Slots go directly to the CPU.
Well, up to now, my understanding was, w/ Z97, all the PCIe lanes go directly to the CPU,- but I might be wrong and it´s all related to chipset versions.
dawman wrote:
Fri Oct 18, 2019 10:13 pm
4x 8x 16x that are black make an extra stop before going to the CPU.
That´s interesting ...
Which extra stop is it ?
Southbridge ?
dawman wrote:
Fri Oct 18, 2019 10:13 pm
Never saw any difference but as I said you dont get error messages and you can try the Master Verb Test.
Well, the masterverb test was a great result already w/ the old machine (mentioned above).
dawman wrote:
Fri Oct 18, 2019 10:13 pm
Ive never done that cause if shit works I just starg playing until it doesnt work, doesn't happen after the build is set up and working.
Ive been using Blue for years now but little black PCI-e 1X slots are a tighter fit and work fine.
O.k., I´ll check out a blue one and the black PCIe x1s, then see what happens.

But the main question was still, If the "old" XITE-1 PCIe card is the same than the newer ones, or if there are differences in data thruput.
Obviously nobody knows or doesn´t want to answer.
Only insiders know.

I only know PCIe standard improved over years,- 1.0, 1.1, 2.0, 3.0,- and maybe, the newer XITE PCIe card did (somewhat) too.
The jump from 1.0 / 1.1 and 2.0 is 100%,- so this will make a difference if the card (and computer mainboard chipset) supports.
dawman wrote:
Fri Oct 18, 2019 10:13 pm
Are you using a rack case?
If so what size, 1U, 2U, 4U?
Yes ... 4U ! All good ...

The AsRock Z97Extreme6 is a great mobo !
I loved the UEFI, making it easy as pie deactivating all the energy savers and turbo.
Temperatures are excellent atm,- dunno what happens if it´s 30+°C ... up to 40,- which I had in my now small rooms this summer.

I used:


2 of these ... https://www.mindfactory.de/product_info ... 92822.html

and ... https://www.mindfactory.de/product_info ... 08484.html

... for CPU ... https://www.mindfactory.de/product_info ... 76000.html

PSU: https://www.mindfactory.de/product_info ... 88177.html

RAM: https://www.mindfactory.de/product_info ... 80543.html

b.t.w.,- it was very easy setting these up w/ XML files provided by UEFI, but can be needs some fine tuning in future.
I´m running 16GB (1 dual kit) a.t.m.,- but I bought a 2nd kit I´ll throw in next future.
Just only had no time testing both kits w/ memtest for the time being.

For sample streaming (NI and such ...) : https://www.mindfactory.de/product_info ... 92800.html ... I put it in the M.2 Ultra slot and it works great already.
For Win7 Pro,- there was a/the Samsung driver needed though.

OS (and some data) is on: https://www.mindfactory.de/product_info ... 25520.html

I also threw in a Samsung EVO 850 for the VST plugins folders and samples which just only load, not stream ...

And for the audio recordings, downloads and s##t, I use a conventional HDD,- WD VelocyRaptor, SATA 600 (300GB).
I think about throwing in another one and as a backup for the Samsung Pro system SSD.

For HDDs I use these https://www.mindfactory.de/product_info ... 83182.html ... and now I´m looking for the AsRock HDD saver cable, usable for 2 HDDs,- giving me the option shutting down HDDs when using the machine as a tone generator in my keyboard rig and don´t audio-recording/playback or don´t need the system drive backup.

and for SSDs I use https://www.mindfactory.de/product_info ... 982758.htm

I wonder if the AsRock Thunderbolt card https://www.mindfactory.de/product_info ... 28261.html might make sense for the future.
There´s the header for it on the AsRock Extreme6 ...
Who knows ?

:)

Bud

dawman
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Re: XITE: old vs new PCIe card

Post by dawman »

Dont know about the PCI-e 1X Connector Card being different.
Core 2 Duo E8600 was a great CPU. Conroe series IIRC.
EVO M.2s are great. Make sure to opt out of the Microsoft driver for NVMe and use Samsungs driver and Magician software.

PCI 3.0 means the Blue colored PCI slots on the Z97 board.
It was meant for 16x only because Gamers loved their cards going to the CPU w/o a stop at the PCH.
Lucky for us our cards work there too, but who knows if theres benefits.
To me benefits re money made from crash free performance.

Ive got many friends using UAD and RME and they never crash on their towers or rack mounts but lazy boys went to laptops and have been embarrassed into returning to more stable configurations.

Z97 is by far the most stable chips Ive had, but Scope has always worked for me since day 1.
Dying to try AMD.

Back when AMD had larger cache they out performed quicker Intels.
I always said for AMD to beat Intel again they need comparable silicon but larger cache is king for audio.

Scan Audio Benchmarks verify better performance per watt, at cooler temps.
Im definitely interested since I haven't needed a faster CPU since the i7s came out.

So I like efficiency over brute force and higher watts/heat.

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Bud Weiser
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Re: XITE: old vs new PCIe card

Post by Bud Weiser »

dawman wrote:
Sat Oct 19, 2019 3:40 pm
Dont know about the PCI-e 1X Connector Card being different.
o.k. ...
dawman wrote:
Sat Oct 19, 2019 3:40 pm
Core 2 Duo E8600 was a great CPU. Conroe series IIRC.
Which never was usable on the ASUS P5WD2 Premium because the latest supported was D945D https://www.amazon.de/Intel-Pentium-3-4 ... B0092L7OVG ...
dawman wrote:
Sat Oct 19, 2019 3:40 pm
EVO M.2s are great. Make sure to opt out of the Microsoft driver for NVMe and use Samsungs driver and Magician software.
That´s what I did !
dawman wrote:
Sat Oct 19, 2019 3:40 pm
PCI 3.0 means the Blue colored PCI slots on the Z97 board.
It was meant for 16x only because Gamers loved their cards going to the CPU w/o a stop at the PCH.
Lucky for us our cards work there too, but who knows if theres benefits.
To me benefits re money made from crash free performance.
Yeah, I´ll try that, but I also wondered why a PCI x1 card, what XITE-1 PCIe card is, really benefits from such slot.
dawman wrote:
Sat Oct 19, 2019 3:40 pm
I´ve got many friends using UAD and RME and they never crash on their towers or rack mounts but lazy boys went to laptops and have been embarrassed into returning to more stable configurations.
Laptops are a different story and more lottery.
But there are SOME working still,- and at least it´s matter of patience, time- and money investment to find out ...
dawman wrote:
Sat Oct 19, 2019 3:40 pm
Z97 is by far the most stable chips Ive had, but Scope has always worked for me since day 1.
SCOPE works once up,- period,- but still suffers from some bugs it shouldn´t !

Imagine what a fine piece of software we had when MIDI CC assignment and related preset management worked as expected.
SCOPE is still what I hope for replacing (some) hardware equipment.
Meanwhile I know, it won´t come from VST !!!
dawman wrote:
Sat Oct 19, 2019 3:40 pm
Back when AMD had larger cache they out performed quicker Intels.
I always said for AMD to beat Intel again they need comparable silicon but larger cache is king for audio.
Cache matters ! ... for keyboard players,- because of polyphony !

I really wonder if this computer based technology will be future proof for us keyboard players.
In fact, I have the impression, software- and hardware manufacturers think about "music production".
But that´s waste of time meanwhile because it´s all for free.

:)

Bud

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