Review of X-ite 1? Coming back to Scope?

[Fluxpod]

Do you have the +dsp license for the uln8? If so could you maybe post a short review on how you like it?
Great interface btw!

[chriskorff]

Evening all!

Re: the English-language review thing, it has nothing to do with advertising (at least as far as my mag is concerned), but everything to do with the promised feature set not yet being implemented. I discussed this at length in another thread somewhere... I'll dig it out in a bit.

Cheers!

Chris

[Marzipan]

I'm a little confused again now... Because previously I thought you were saying I could plug the Xite-1 into the Express Slot on my MBP, and then route audio to/from Scope using software modules within the Scope routing page. Now I "think" you might be telling me I can't do that, and in fact will have to have audio cables connected between the two interfaces in order to get audio between Logic and Scope?? I know I will obviously need a MIDI cable going into Xite to trigger the synths, and for control of Scope plugins, just don't want to use any audio cables because of limited channel count.

I haven't used Soundflower much on the Mac, but I think this is the usual program used for inter-application audio. As far as I know this works for most audio software on the Mac (I may be wrong but that's my impression). However, I don't know if inter-application audio is more difficult as the Scope is a hardware/software DSP system. I know for example with the Kyma Pacarana inter-application audio is something they are looking to implement, but haven't managed to do yet. Which leads me to believe perhaps it's more difficult with a DSP-based hardware/software system on Mac OS X? That's just a guess though, and it may be easier with the Xite (I'm not a technical person or programmer).

Is there anybody who used Scope and Logic (or another sequencer) with Mac OS 9, who can confirm if it worked the way I described?? I've also tried to e-mail Sonic Core today to ask the same question, but I guess they're busy so may not reply... Thanks.

the only caveat, since i've gotten myself quoted(all my own fault! ), is that you will only be able to use the Scope environment with the XITE's i/o. that's not necessarily a big deal or problem, i just don't want to mislead you.

you seem to know what you want and need, so more power to you!

[Marzipan]

Hello, I'm not setting up the new studio for about a month, but I have a quote and will be purchasing the ULN-8 with the DSP license. I've done a lot of reading up on this interface, and heard some classical recordings made with the ULN-8 which sounded really great (I think that was through a link on the Metric Halo site...).

One of the best things is many people have compared the preamps to be similar quality to Neve or API, but more flexible (because you have the "character" algorithm to play with). So it's pretty amazing that you get 8 preamps (or instrument DI's) on the box! It does seem expensive but it can perform so many functions (e.g. surround monitor control/high quality clock) that it's actually pretty good value. E.g. I was considering Apogee Ensemble, but I need more than 4 preamps, so would need two units. By the time I'd bought two it would be almost as expensive as a ULN-8, and the sound quality is probably not as good (not that I've tried the Ensemble, just guessing).

Once I start using the ULN-8 I'll be happy to post my thoughts, or if I forget send me a PM in a coupla months.

Do you have the +dsp license for the uln8? If so could you maybe post a short review on how you like it?
Great interface btw!

[Fluxpod]

Alright!

[garyb]

you CAN get sound from Logic into the Scope environment and back, NO PROBLEM. you must use the XITE's i/os for this to work, however. there's no way for the XITE or any other Scope card(or soundcard, for that matter) to communicate directly with another soundcard.

[Marzipan]

Ok, thanks, I'm still not 100% sure... I'm prob just being dumb here. I think my confusion might arise from not ever having used Scope on the same machine as ANY sequencer, just as an audio card for Gigastudio on a dedicated machine.

Still wondering if there is a way around this. If Soundflower works for most applications on the Mac, couldn't it be used to route audio from Scope into Logic, with Scope just running in standalone?

Just thought of another way too, maybe it's possible to create an "aggregate device" in Mac OS X so that Logic recognises the ULN-8 and the Xite-1 as one soundcard. AFAIK this works for most soundcards. I know it doesn't work for everything though, because I recently tried to use an Apogee Duet and a TC Electronic card as an aggregate device, which I assumed would work fine but it turns out the Duet does not support aggregate devices!

If the ULN-8 and Xite-1 can be used as an aggregate device, then I guess the problem is solved? Because I will presumably be able to access the Scope synths/effects within Logic, along with I/Os from both interfaces. If anybody has any idea if this will work it would be much appreciated.

I guess I might be premature in asking the questions, given than the OS X support still hasn't materialized... So I think I may just have to wait and see, it would be really useful if it is possible to figure out if this works beforehand though. Thanks!

you CAN get sound from Logic into the Scope environment and back, NO PROBLEM. you must use the XITE's i/os for this to work, however. there's no way for the XITE or any other Scope card(or soundcard, for that matter) to communicate directly with another soundcard.

[Marzipan]

.

[Janni]

first thing: no osx support in sight. maybe we get more info after win 64bit support.
So fact is, you need a dedicated win machine, providing pcie or expresscard slots.

If there is some day osx support and it has the same features you can use your preamps
and the core metric halo driver for recording and switch then to core xite drivers for mixing.
But I think thats not so elegant (e.g. monitoring).

I would wait until scope 5.1 is released and a time schedule for osx support is announced
and decide then what to buy. I think using two interfaces will be complicated or unstable.

First scenario:
In osx you can use different drivers for input and output. so you could use ULN-8 for input
and xite for output. you could record into logic, then process in scope.
But to record this you would have to switch your input driver to scope or make a physical connection
from xite output to ULN-8 input.
Since the ULN-8 has no ADAT....
And using two different drivers is told to be buggy...

Second:
You use the ULN-8 for I-O and integrate XITE via VSTIM. That means a little latency, but it will be
probably low... But until VSTIM runs like someone might be used to (e.g. protools or uad) it will take a few more 'soons', I think...

Third:
You use Xite for I-O and buy some other decent preamps and converts. No ULN-8 needed...
That's probably the most efficient way... easy workflow... You can route your signals between xite
and logic in every way you want.

Forth:
Go for the ULN-8 if you need a solution right now and see whats happening with XITE...
But then one day you might say: DAMN, I don't need no more ULN-8 (just for preamps and
converters).

Just my thoughts... hope it doesn't sound too confusing, I'm sure I missed some steps...

[doktorfuture]

Hi guys,

This thread is interesting. I'm a Mac guy who uses a PC just for The Xite-1. My digital rig is pretty deep:
- Xite-1
- Symbolic Sound Pacarana
- TC Electronic Digital Konnekt 32
- Metric Halo ULN-8
- Metric Halo LIO-8
- JCF 8 channel ADC
- Eventide H8000fw
- Axe Fx Ultra

The xite is excellent but has a few flaws like everything else. I will move to OS X as soon as I can. I think Sonic Core charges too much markup on their store, and that VAT business sucks. Also they should think 'marketing' and at least do browser language detection and serve up English versions of their site if a browser requests it. I can't wait until they re-release their SDK.

The Pacarana is entirely different. Great but has a loud fan. I got man early unit and its going back to Symbolic Sound for some free tweaking. I also have a Capybara in a different rig. It is good tech, but it is geared at designing a single sound at a time. No mixing, ,multiple synths, etc... I use it mainly for processing audio in crazy ways.

Those Metric Halo interfaces are super, the LIO has awesome bass response, but the DSP is limited in how much you can pull off. I use it mainly for character, channel strips (quite good). You can use dsp blocks to create your own patches in the same style of Scope, but with the +DSP it's much simpler than what Scope offers.

The eventide is great but could be so much more. They need to do more with computer integration, but overall it is great as it is.

I'm happy to answer any questions folk might have.

[Marzipan]

Wow, that sounds like a very cool rig! Just wondering firstly what is the VAT issue in terms of ordering from Sonic Core?

I was a little disappointed to get an e-mail back from Sonic Core saying that they will not be working on the Mac OS X support for a while, they also mentioned that there is "no technical advantage to using Mac OS X" (I didn't think there would be a technical advantage, but it's kind of like they were saying "why do you want to use it with OS X anyway"). They also said it would be 6 or 12 months at least before it would be ready, so I'm not holding my breath. I'll now work on the assumption if I do end up getting an Xite it will be using a separate PC.

I haven't ruled it out, but it's a bit of a bummer, because it's gonna be quite hard to share the I/Os of my main setup between Kyma and the Scope system. I assume that's mainly why you're using the LIO-8? I mean for the extra I/Os so you can hook everything up at the same time without I/Os clashing and the need for too much patch-baying? I'm assuming your sequencer is on the main machine, and you have the Pacarana hooked up via 8-channels of AES/EBU between the Digital Konnekt 32 to either the ULN-8 or the LIO-8?

How are you connecting the X-ite? I guess you're using that JCF thingy, and converting to AES/EBU then into either the ULN-8 or LIO-8? Any more info about what the connections are and how it works in practice would be pretty useful, I'm having a bit of a headache trying to figure it if/how I can hook everything up.

Just had another crazy idea (maybe far-fetched), but if Symbolic Sound release an update that allows you to access all the I/O's of the interface you're using, rather than just 8 (I've asked them about that a couple of times, but not sure when it's happening). Then in theory you could set up a Kyma Sound which passes the audio from Logic straight through Kyma and into the Xite-1, over say 8 channels, then back again into Logic. Leaving the rest of the channels free for Kyma processing (so effectively using the Pacarana as a kind of digital patchbay). A little bit messy perhaps, and it assumes you'll have to have Kyma running the whole time any time you want to use Xite, and that the "pass-through" sound is always loaded. Would add a little bit of latency, but should be negligible, and that doesn't bother me for studio work because the DAW will compensate. And it should use virtually none of the Pacarana's processing power, hmmm, I don't see why that couldn't work ok... If it does work it would save me several 1000's on interfaces/converters (which I probably can't budget for as it is), so it'd be worth it. If I can do it like this I think it's very likely I'll be able to add an Xite to my rig. Let me know your thoughts, thanks.

Hi guys,

This thread is interesting. I'm a Mac guy who uses a PC just for The Xite-1. My digital rig is pretty deep:
- Xite-1
- Symbolic Sound Pacarana
- TC Electronic Digital Konnekt 32
- Metric Halo ULN-8
- Metric Halo LIO-8
- JCF 8 channel ADC
- Eventide H8000fw
- Axe Fx Ultra

I'm happy to answer any questions folk might have.

[dawman]

Everyone I know who uses Logic/Mac has a PC. Probably because they can access 64bit VSti's and extra Sample Libraries.
Then by using a Host like VE Pro you can connect the PC and it's VSTi/Sampled content and the XITE-1. The audio and MIDI can go over the GBit LAN cable to the Mac, then into the server host.
Having Bidule as the semi host on the PC is also very wise.
I can actually use Reaper w/ Bidule as a VST ( ReWired ) and Scope all on my new little 1U i5 DAW. I actually bought that to go to 64bit but I have learned to purge my libraries of the massive amounts of useless samples I will never need. Much easier to load them in a performance and pretty much negates the whole need for 64bit.
I do use the 3 GB PAE Switch as it adds 675-700MB's more of RAM for sample buffers.
So instead of the 1.75 GB of 32bit RAM as default, I get a whopping 2.4GB's which works fine for my needs.
If I start doing really large Orchestral mock ups I can always add another 775 dollar 1U DAW.
But I am in no hurry to start serenading folks with these overpriced oversized string libraries that sound no better than my Miraslav/SISS Gigastudio stuff.
Well some folks need 22 different Pizzacattos and 30 fake mic placements.
I'd rather use 1 or 2 pizz and a quality hardware reverb to get the mic placement thing.
I just need a quality in your face recording without the horrific built in cheeze verbs to start with.
Check out VE Pro, It's what the doctor ordered for many Macguys.

[Marzipan]

Actually, thinking about it a bit more, my main bottleneck is lack of I/Os on the main system (MBP + Logic + ULN-8), so this may not help me all that much. Just trying to think of other ways around it, like perhaps adding a cheaper Metric Halo Card to the ULN-8 just to gain ADAT I/O so I can hook up the Xite via ADAT. However I'm not sure if you can "daisy chain" different types of Metric Halo interface... I guess that's something I should post over at the Metric Halo forum, although doktorfuture, if you have any ideas regarding this please let me know?

Just had another thought, may change to Digital Performer if making aggregate devices in Logic is gonna be an issue, because I've read recently that it supports multiple sound cards much more easily than Logic (not needing to create an aggregate device). Only started using Logic relatively recently, having moved from Pro Tools, and mostly it's ok but a few things annoy me (like lack of dedicated drum editor, and some of the audio editing gets on my nerves). Just weighing up the different options...

[doktorfuture]

Wow, that sounds like a very cool rig! Just wondering firstly what is the VAT issue in terms of ordering from Sonic Core?

It says on their site that plugins include some ungodly high 19% VAT. Usually when I buy online, I don't pay their local tax. I just buy tax free.

I was a little disappointed to get an e-mail back from Sonic Core saying that they will not be working on the Mac OS X support for a while, they also mentioned that there is "no technical advantage to using Mac OS X" (I didn't think there would be a technical advantage, but it's kind of like they were saying "why do you want to use it with OS X anyway"). They also said it would be 6 or 12 months at least before it would be ready, so I'm not holding my breath. I'll now work on the assumption if I do end up getting an Xite it will be using a separate PC.

How long ago was this? If that's the case it is unfortunate and suggests they could be out-of-touch with the reality of a lot of their user base. I also wonder what they *are* working on? I am using it on a separate PC, but overall I am a MAC user and use Logic as my DAW. I agree that they'd sell more XITE-1's if they did the OS X driver release. I understand that it would follow after regular 64 bit drivers are released for Windows.

I haven't ruled it out, but it's a bit of a bummer, because it's gonna be quite hard to share the I/Os of my main setup between Kyma and the Scope system. I assume that's mainly why you're using the LIO-8? I mean for the extra I/Os so you can hook everything up at the same time without I/Os clashing and the need for too much patch-baying? I'm assuming your sequencer is on the main machine, and you have the Pacarana hooked up via 8-channels of AES/EBU between the Digital Konnekt 32 to either the ULN-8 or the LIO-8?

I picked up the LIO-8 because I could use a 1000 dollar loyalty coupon

I'm finding the ASIO to be troublesome as I'm not a Windows user and I've got weird 'dual drivers' and I can't seem to get ASIO set up right with lots of channels. So far if I try and use ASIO everything hangs. I'd really rather not waste time with it as Windows has always been a pain-in-the-ass, so I'm mainly using physical I/O on the XITE-1. It would be so much easier if I could get a Core-Audio driver for it on OS X. Same goes for the Pacarana too. BTW I've always had firewire issues with the Pacarana (and Capybara) on Windows, where switching to the MAC just makes things work right. Windows just sucks and I can't stand debugging it.

How are you connecting the X-ite? I guess you're using that JCF thingy, and converting to AES/EBU then into either the ULN-8 or LIO-8? Any more info about what the connections are and how it works in practice would be pretty useful, I'm having a bit of a headache trying to figure it if/how I can hook everything up.

Honestly I'm still figuring out how to connect everything and it's changing a lot. The JCF outputs AES/EBU, but needs external clocking. I'm playing with the JFF feeding the LIO-8, so I'll have 16 channels of really interesting A/D mixed the LIO-8.

Right now I'm using the XITE-1 mainly as a source, or a 2 channel processor as I can't get the ASIO working right yet. Also, I'm still using a spare PC from when I got it. I am researching other PC's (audio workstations, rack mounted), but really would prefer to stay with OS X.

Just had another crazy idea (maybe far-fetched), but if Symbolic Sound release an update that allows you to access all the I/O's of the interface you're using, rather than just 8 (I've asked them about that a couple of times, but not sure when it's happening). Then in theory you could set up a Kyma Sound which passes the audio from Logic straight through Kyma and into the Xite-1, over say 8 channels, then back again into Logic. Leaving the rest of the channels free for Kyma processing (so effectively using the Pacarana as a kind of digital patchbay). A little bit messy perhaps, and it assumes you'll have to have Kyma running the whole time any time you want to use Xite, and that the "pass-through" sound is always loaded. Would add a little bit of latency, but should be negligible, and that doesn't bother me for studio work because the DAW will compensate. And it should use virtually none of the Pacarana's processing power, hmmm, I don't see why that couldn't work ok... If it does work it would save me several 1000's on interfaces/converters (which I probably can't budget for as it is), so it'd be worth it. If I can do it like this I think it's very likely I'll be able to add an Xite to my rig. Let me know your thoughts, thanks.

I'd like that for sure, but really I'd like to have a mixer in the Capybara, and be able to run multiple parallel Sounds and blend them easily with a GUI mixer. The Scope concept is perfect.

[Marzipan]

Yo, I may have had my head in the sand for a few years (not having done many updates for a while), but this could be the answer for me. I had no idea it was possible to stream audio & MIDI from a mac to a PC (I've used MIDI over LAN before but that's it).

I'd heard of Vienna Ensemble, but assumed it was just for the Vienna Instruments. Just trying to get my head around how it works, reading a review but still not 100% clear... MIDI isn't really an issue, because I can always hook up a cable, but you're saying if I have a separate PC with the Xite-1 Soundcard, then I can stream audio to and from my main Macbook Pro running Logic?? If so that's exactly what I need, I really didn't think that was possible.

I'll try and check a few more reviews etc., coz that kind of sounds too good to be true to me at the moment. Are you sure it is bi-directional audio, between the Mac and the PC? So I can not only stream audio from the Scope synths, but stream audio from Logic on the MBP, via the host, to the PC and back again, for processing using the Scope plugins?? If so I have to say, that's amazing! What are the track limits?

Talking about sample libraries, bit of a different discussion but you're in danger of sending me off on one here... I totally agree I have no need for massive amounts of RAM to load 500 different pizzicato articulations or whatever. The whole aesthetic of trying to make a computer sound like a full orcehstra is completely counter-intuitive to me. Just listen to Ligeti's Atmospheres of 1961, AFAIK nobody's come close to reproducing something like that using a computer, and if they did it would be completely pointless exercise. Just get some real instruments and do something original, and use samples to fill in the gaps if you need to!

Everyone I know who uses Logic/Mac has a PC. Probably because they can access 64bit VSti's and extra Sample Libraries.
Then by using a Host like VE Pro you can connect the PC and it's VSTi/Sampled content and the XITE-1. The audio and MIDI can go over the GBit LAN cable to the Mac, then into the server host.
Having Bidule as the semi host on the PC is also very wise.
I can actually use Reaper w/ Bidule as a VST ( ReWired ) and Scope all on my new little 1U i5 DAW. I actually bought that to go to 64bit but I have learned to purge my libraries of the massive amounts of useless samples I will never need. Much easier to load them in a performance and pretty much negates the whole need for 64bit.
I do use the 3 GB PAE Switch as it adds 675-700MB's more of RAM for sample buffers.
So instead of the 1.75 GB of 32bit RAM as default, I get a whopping 2.4GB's which works fine for my needs.
If I start doing really large Orchestral mock ups I can always add another 775 dollar 1U DAW.
But I am in no hurry to start serenading folks with these overpriced oversized string libraries that sound no better than my Miraslav/SISS Gigastudio stuff.
Well some folks need 22 different Pizzacattos and 30 fake mic placements.
I'd rather use 1 or 2 pizz and a quality hardware reverb to get the mic placement thing.
I just need a quality in your face recording without the horrific built in cheeze verbs to start with.
Check out VE Pro, It's what the doctor ordered for many Macguys.

[Marzipan]

To reply to doktorfuture...

The e-mail I got from Sonic Core was yesterday!! It said "we have to finish the 64 bit drivers first, then it may take 6 to 12 months for the OS X support" (paraphrase rather than an exact quote). I do agree with you that I think they'd sell more Xite-1's if they did support OS X.

I've never used Kyma on a PC, but personally would avoid that as they seem to be more geared towards Mac compatibility (although they say both are supported, certain things like no Osculator on PC, or whatever). In principle I personally don't mind the idea of using a PC, when I used Scope Pro cards on a Windows XP machine most of the time it worked fine.

In Kyma can you find some way to blend the sounds using the timeline? Might be worth posting on the Kyma forum perhaps as I'm not a very experienced user compared to the guys on there.

[Sounddesigner]

@ doktorfuture . If you don't live in the countries that VAT applies to it is not charged at checkout. When i order from Sonic Core's website VAT is always deducted and not charged.

[Marzipan]

This one is addressed to XITE-1/4LIVE...

Just reading up a bit more about the Vienna Ensemble, trying to get my head around whether it will actually do what I'm hoping it will do... In the review I'm looking at, it states that "audio inputs are not available in network mode" (only in standalone mode). Does this mean it won't work?? I don't fully understand what this software does, so I may be misinterpreting it. Thanks.

[doktorfuture]

@ doktorfuture . If you don't live in the countries that VAT applies to it is not charged at checkout. When i order from Sonic Core's website VAT is always deducted and not charged.

Whew. They would be smarter to make that clear on their shop.

[doktorfuture]

OK that makes sense. Finish the 64 bit hard work re-write, then port to OS X.

To reply to doktorfuture...

The e-mail I got from Sonic Core was yesterday!! It said "we have to finish the 64 bit drivers first, then it may take 6 to 12 months for the OS X support" (paraphrase rather than an exact quote). I do agree with you that I think they'd sell more Xite-1's if they did support OS X.