Problems with Rotary Encoders

kybernaut_01 · Post by **kybernaut_01** » Tue Aug 16, 2005 8:08 am

Since a while some of the rotary encoders on my NOAH behave a bit weird. Whenever I move them a bit faster the values don't seem to follow reliably.... instead they move pretty slow and give random results every now and then.

My NOAH has the newest Firmware 1.4.23 and I fear it is rather a hardware issue.

Any one has experience with this?

<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: kybernaut_01 on 2005-08-16 09:09 ]</font>

astroman · Post by **astroman** » Fri Aug 19, 2005 2:35 am

I've read something like that about Yamaha encoders which have a similiar layout in their rack units as NOAH - possibly the same basic module (?)
I have a not so much used Yamaha DX200 box and in fact the main dial has significantly lost precision.
If slowly moved the values sometimes even reverse their direction (or hang for a few ticks) until they find their way back.
Definetely not what one would expect from a digital dial.

imho the only solution is to replace the dials by a better type - not sure if this qualifies as a warranty case (use better parts for the replacement).

cheers, Tom

kybernaut_01 · Post by **kybernaut_01** » Fri Aug 19, 2005 8:02 am

On 2005-08-19 03:35, astroman wrote:
Definetely not what one would expect from a digital dial.

imho the only solution is to replace the dials by a better type - not sure if this qualifies as a warranty case (use better parts for the replacement).

The dials itself should be analog, no? Just the read-out and the software for the accelleration is digital of course.

Anyway, do you know where to get these (or equivalent) dials?

thanks,

kybernaut

astroman · Post by **astroman** » Fri Aug 19, 2005 11:06 am

On 2005-08-19 09:02, kybernaut_01 wrote:
...The dials itself should be analog, no? ...

well, I don't have a NOAH, but it's easy to check - a digital rotary encoder allows endless turning of the know, while an analog (potentiometer type) has a rotation angle of roughly 270 degrees.

If there were pots in the NOAH that would be pretty s*cking - even Doepfer sells their cheapo DIY kits with endless encoders.
Doepfer would also be the proper place to look for a replacement type - they sell parts, too

http://www.doepfer.de/home_d.htm

cheers, Tom

alfonso · Post by **alfonso** » Fri Aug 19, 2005 2:44 pm

They also have a "Push" function.

kybernaut_01 · Post by **kybernaut_01** » Fri Sep 02, 2005 11:37 am

So did anybody actually make a replacement yet?

The Encoders are soldered pretty firmly onto the PCB (they're soldered by their metal frame). I would need to get myself another soldering iron because my current one isn't powerful enough to melt all the solder-tin

Thanks for any suggestions?

Shroomz~> · Post by **Shroomz~>** » Sat Sep 03, 2005 5:24 am

kybernaut_01

So did anybody actually make a replacement yet?

Our Noah rotaries are still fine, as we mostly use the software to make edits. So, we haven't had to think about this yet. I'd recommend asking CWA for the *exact* rotary type & spec before doing anything.

The Encoders are soldered pretty firmly onto the PCB (they're soldered by their metal frame). I would need to get myself another soldering iron because my current one isn't powerful enough to melt all the solder-tin

If you're intent on fixing this yourself kybernaut, i'd recommend that when you go to buy that soldering iron, that you also purchase a decent "IC extractor" & solder-sucker or braid. Extractors are normally used, as the name suggests, for IC extraction, but you'll find it a valuable friend when trying to de-solder a stuborn pot or rotary, as you can grab the whole rotary chassis firmly & wiggle it a little while desoldering. You'll want to use a sucker or braid to clean as much solder out of there as possible before attempting to get it out. One of the easiest bad things that could happen would be that if you're not carefull enough, it is very easy to de-mount a solder ring or two. Although repairable, this would be bad, so you should procede with care or pay 35 euro for a synth tech to do it.

Best of luck & if you need any more info on anything i mentioned, just get in touch.

Shroomz

kybernaut_01 · Post by **kybernaut_01** » Sun Sep 04, 2005 12:27 am

On 2005-09-03 06:24, Shroomz wrote:
I'd recommend asking CWA for the *exact* rotary type & spec before doing anything.

Sure... So why not post it here, dear CW people? Could be helpful to others as well!

On 2005-09-03 06:24, Shroomz wrote:
If you're intent on fixing this yourself kybernaut, i'd recommend that when you go to buy that soldering iron, that you also purchase a decent "IC extractor" & solder-sucker or braid.

That definately makes sense, thanks.

On 2005-09-03 06:24, Shroomz wrote:
One of the easiest bad things that could happen would be that if you're not carefull enough, it is very easy to de-mount a solder ring or two.

I fear, I know what you mean

That happened to me with other gear I frickled around with.

On 2005-09-03 06:24, Shroomz wrote:
Best of luck & if you need any more info on anything i mentioned, just get in touch.

Thanks!

kybernaut

astroman · Post by **astroman** » Sun Sep 04, 2005 4:53 am

I vaguely remember specialized desoldering tools driven by hot air.
Probably a bit much for a couple of encoders, but if you deal with gear on that level frequently it may be worth considering.

cheers, Tom

kybernaut_01 · Post by **kybernaut_01** » Sun Sep 04, 2005 6:36 am

On 2005-09-04 05:53, astroman wrote:
I vaguely remember specialized desoldering tools driven by hot air.
Probably a bit much for a couple of encoders, but if you deal with gear on that level frequently it may be worth considering.

cheers, Tom

I know what you mean... Looks like a dentist's instrument:-D

suthnear · Post by **suthnear** » Fri Sep 09, 2005 12:13 pm

I have a waldorf q rack and it suffers from exactly the same problem. FWIW, you can get the endless rotaries the q uses here:

http://www.rs-components.com/index.html

Stock numbers:
> 265-1723 gliding Type 16mm
> 265-1739 switching Type 16 mm

And they come in vertical and horizontal formats.

kybernaut_01 · Post by **kybernaut_01** » Fri Sep 09, 2005 1:08 pm

On 2005-09-09 13:13, suthnear wrote:
I have a waldorf q rack and it suffers from exactly the same problem. FWIW, you can get the endless rotaries the q uses here:

http://www.rs-components.com/index.html

Stock numbers:
> 265-1723 gliding Type 16mm
> 265-1739 switching Type 16 mm

And they come in vertical and horizontal formats.

Wow, thanks very much!! From the first look they seem to be just what I was looking for.
Will re-check though the next time I have my NOAH open...

kybernaut_01

P.S.: And since I have some experts here, just another question

What kind of soldering iron should be used for this task? My current one has 15 W and is definately too weak...

<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: kybernaut_01 on 2005-09-09 14:19 ]</font>

astroman · Post by **astroman** » Sat Sep 10, 2005 2:28 am

don't consider me an expert, cause if I want to solder I take anything I can get my hands on - even the edge of a worn out 60 watt on SMD circuits - it just has to be...
and since we're at confessions: yes, I have re-soldered that cap from the front side of my Pulsar to it's back because it got in the way of the CPU fan...

but (seriously) regarding to get the amount of solder away from those dials (according to your description as I haven't seen it myself) a gas driven one may apply.
The very cheapos will NOT work as the flame has to be adjusted very precisely - and those metal parts are pure craftsmenship.

cheers, Tom

Henrik · Post by **Henrik** » Mon Sep 12, 2005 1:54 am

Hi,

My rotators also fails. When I turn them it goes back one or two values after I finish turning. Very annoying when I only turn 1 value right then it often actually goes 1 value left.