Could this be the Shreddage Killer ?

[dante]

Sure, a real sax player will sound like a real sax player and a keyboard playing a virtual sax will sound like a keyboard player playing a virtual sax. I get that - but for me its already a given - that level of difference doesn't affect me as a home studio song writer doing basic arrangements trying to get them to sound as real as possible. To me its a case of 'closer the better' not oh, you're still 'x' percent off being real...because hey that's already a given. That's like talking about STM 1632 not being like a real analog mixer - that's kinda like - well yeah - but der. Its already a given.

Read title of post - it says 'Could this be the Shreddage Killer' - not 'Could this be the Hendrix Killer' .

[garyb]

yeah, but it's just yakking, right?

[dante]

Yeah - but maybe not the same yakkin as if I'd posted the topic more specifically - say something like 'Virtual Instruments - is modelling evolving over sampling'. My bad

[valis]

This is the OT area, of a site that targets a niche of a niche of a niche in terms of userbase. I'm sure your readership will survive the ordeal in other words

[dante]

Of course. I just need to grasp the concept of the OT itself going OT

[garyb]

i'm sorry. i know it's about your comparison with Shreddage, and we've veered off-course. it seemed like everyone thought it was cool, and probably nothing more needed to be said, so of course i started spouting mooth-poo(typing poo), my bad. my apologies.

just for the record, i'm not against these products at all. as i said, there are a lot of good reasons to use them. gotta use what you can. i use them,

yes, i'm sure that more and more, modeling development is moving faster than sampling. modeling is newer and sampling is sampling, so one would expect that to be the case for a bit longer. like all instruments, the process becomes standardized over the years and development slows. it's not a bad thing. a piano is a piano, as a trumpet is a trumpet. at one time, though, those instruments had many designs.

i don't like the idea of instrument replacement, anyway. it's more like alternatives, which are always nice. it's ok for fake to be fake.

thanks for letting me wander again. i guess i can stop, now.

[dante]

To me the story goes something like this - rambling a bit - but leads back to the topic.

1) In the 80's - everyone thought drum machine were going to take work away from drummers. Maybe in some small way it has, but I think the 808 and Linn just kicked off more genres that put real drummers out of work. Actually, in Australia- Gambling machine took more work off live musicians than any music technology. In 80's venues I went to, we would listen to live bands and play Space Invaders at the same time. In the same room. But now if there's live music its away from the gambling rooms - that's in venues where gambling machine didn't take over completely. It was ok in the 80's to get up from PacMan and dance to the band but pubs since 2000's didn't want gamblers to leave there pokie machines to dance coz that's lost pokie patronage time. So - keep the music away from distracting the revenue generating gambling addicts.

2) Back to 90's and we had AKAI samplers - again more genres were born but live music went down hill again - again I blame gambling machines not samplers. Of course Im talking about Aussy cities like Melbourne and Sydney its a completely different evolution to say Vegas where the pokies were probably established concurrently with the live acts - so the 2 co-existed. In fact live music probably thrives off the revenue generated by gambling in Vegas like the whole economy there.

3) Then we had PC's and GigaSampler so samples could be longer but they didn't have instrument characteristics so along came Kontakt, with fancy scripting, key and velocity switching etc. But certain instruments - eg Guitars, needed a lot more samples and effects / amp modelling to be anything near realistic so massive resource hit. In fact I use Shreddage 2 as well as Shreddage3 because Shreddage 2 does a better lead and chews a lot less cycles than S3. But S3 is better at Strat sounds coz of course that's what its designed to do.

4) Now we have this situation where you need so much processing power to get a good guitar sound from say Kontakt that that same power - directed to modelling might be able to produce as good a result without gigs of samples having to be downloaded and chewing RAM.

[dawman]

Thankfully those we record or perform for dont know the difference.
For me, I can jam better when Im happy with my sound.
When I see people playing Air Guitar when I do a solo on Foghat I might not be 100% convinced, but theyre the folks dancing and filing the reguster with cash.

[dante]

Id be filling the cash register too at a gig where this was played no matter what it was being played on :

[yayajohn]

Haven't you heard? The Guitar Hero is dead. The Knob Twister/Launchpad heroes are king!!
Sucks, Cause I just polished up my new keytar waiting for the band to call me.

With the ga-zillion or so guitar players out there in the world, I really don't see the point trying to copy one, except just for fun in your own backyard.

Really is a nice sound though

[garyb]

doesn't really move me.
it sounds ok, though.

[dante]

Haven't you heard? The Guitar Hero is dead. The Knob Twister/Launchpad heroes are king!!
Sucks, Cause I just polished up my new keytar waiting for the band to call me.

With the ga-zillion or so guitar players out there in the world, I really don't see the point trying to copy one, except just for fun in your own backyard.

Really is a nice sound though

There are a couple of points in trying to copy one - first is if you're doing a cover of one of their songs - second is if you want to learn 'get into' their style. I'm trying to create a series of 'Pink Floyd' genre songs, and David Gilmour is one of my fave guitar heroes so I use his style in a few tracks, or direct rip offs of his soles in covers of 'Brick in the Wall' and 'Money'. So his Strat sound is one I deliberately target.

Me & the Mrs also attend tribute band concerts and support that concept - eg The Pink Floyd Experience, The Australian INXS - if we were in Vegas longer we would have gone to a Michael Jackson tribute or looked for Dawman playing Roundabout. We went to Carol King, Four Seasons and School of Rock stage shows. To me imitation is an alive and legitimate musical form, beyond ones own back yard (which also has its educational benefits IMHO).

And I would happily attend a Jimmy Page tribute as enthusiastically as a genuine Steve Vai concert.

[yayajohn]

Just a little bit of busting. I monkey around with the guitar sounds all the time It's part of the keyboardist mantra: try to imitate every instrument ever created.
It's great when you can get real close. Had a thought though recently fiddling with some of the cab/distortion simulations. Doesn't seem to really matter what signal you start with if you mangle the sound enough it will sound like a distorted electric guitar!

[David]

This topic had me wandering what a robotic controlled guitar could sound like

https://youtu.be/VkUq4sO4LQM

[dawman]

I cant take this anymore.
I have to break out the old DAW and show these guys doing demos for a free copy how we do it on the big jobs.

Gimme a couple weeks.
Need the old recording DAW.

[dante]

Or you could just run a feed out of the mixing desk at one of your gigs into VDAT

[Marco]

Okay after saying everything is shit, using the Keyboard as a guitar - I tried out a little bit, and I got crazy! You should be a guitar player and a bass Player to get an easier result. So listen to this. It is only a try out.....sometimes it is better to try out yourself to understand what it really is! Yes you can NOT do everything with it, but it offers a lot more of the guitarwork than ever before! It's like a new Kind of Instrument, the uncle of the guitar. Better results are coming soon.

This is not a real guitar :

Solo
https://1drv.ms/u/s!ApPWzfjyiAbwmwOCorFS5cTYXSIg

Arangement
https://1drv.ms/u/s!ApPWzfjyiAbwmhyFnP7TvaqCmNOl

[dante]

So Marco that was you playing IronAxe ? And you did those arrangements ? Its shit hot man ! There were only a couple of places I thought 'yeah that's a bit keyboardish' but overall - and if you composed it all you got some great chops all round dude !

But that's what I mean - a couple of years ago I was firmly in the camp of having to pick up my real guitar no DAW plug could come close so I stopped following the fake guitar plugs - but its kinda kept evolving whilst I had my back turned as the callouses on my left hand developed from playing my old Squire Stratocaster (older than my Scope PCI cards). Don't get me wrong, I still love Sir Squire so will bring him in for a real vibe quest from time to time.

Dante's Strat - Still Struttin'

Dante Strat Small.jpg (36.63 KiB) Viewed 4163 times

[Marco]

YES I did this all by myself, AND this was only a test arrangement! I have now learned a lot more tricks with the vst fake guitar. YES fake! but I love it. You must learn how to play it, you can not do everthing with it, but you can find the tricks easy and the things you can do is incredible! I guess I will mix it together with a real guitar. Because you can do things with the vst fake very easy instead of a real guitar! SO 2019 was a good year! Thank you guys for this BIG HINT! First I really thought: again the keyboard shit guitar, but now I'm happy to see: yes there is a new way to make sick music with sick tools......hahaha

You have a nice left handed guitar!

[dante]

I wish they would hurry up and release the x64 VST then ! Have fun, Ill catch up with the next release hopefully.