UAD Neve strip at work

[hubird]

A promo, but a nice demonstration how to 'channel strip':

http://www.uaudio.com/store/unison/neve ... psneve88rs

I use API Vision tho

[tlaskows]

I'm guilty of UAD too

I have the old version and I can upgrade for $149. It has very good reviews on the forums.

-Tom

[hubird]

Agree, it's worth the mony, I get fast and great output from the plugs
Great website, really great and intelligent support (reassuring the current bundle price during ownership transfer), and easy authorisation proces and personal control of aqiuricies on the website.
Dunno, love the way the Pultec and the 1176LN work, and a few others I have

[jksuperstar]

You don't use the sonic core SL9000 for the same purpose?

[garyb]

channel strips kinda negate the purpose of the correct mic and pre.

there isn't much fiddling needed when you like the sound of the mic and pre to begin with, but i realize that channel strips are used many ways.

only an extremely fine piece of hardware is going to do a better job than the stock eq in Scope, but you do need to learn how to use a fully parametric eq.

plugins can mimic the audio qualities of such a fine piece of hardware, but not really. of course, it's a great thing to have many different varieties if eqs because some approaches work better for a particular audio track than others do. personally, if i can't quickly do what i want to do with the stock eq, then i look to other eqs. i usually am only engaging a few cuts or a high pass, because i like the mic and pre i generally use. if i had more time when i worked, i might be more picky about exactly which mic or pre i chose, but i usually just use the most accurate stuff i have. special effects would really be the main reason that i used eq creatively and of course a certain voiceprint might be cooler than another.

it'd be better to spend more time with basic tools and your ears and spend the extra money on mics and pres, to some extent, than to buy something like this, even for strictly native users. while i love the plugin developers, i don't see any reason to buy a good product more than once, maybe twice if there's a major os change. companies like UAD need to keep selling the same thing as many times as possible, but still it has to have the UAD sound. what? an ACTUAL hand-made audio device will vary considerably from unit to unit, even though the "sound" might be there for each. side by side, you might prefer one over the other, but you'd never trash the one you had for another, not unless you already knew it really was better and that the old one was broken. there can never be a 100% accurate virualization of something that was infinitely variable to begin with. there sure are a lot of different products that can't be that different. for this reason, a good NEVE emu is a good NEVE emu, a good Pultec emu is a good Pultec emu a good API emu is a good API emu. getting more caught up in it all than that invites nit-picking and generally doesn't lead to better music, at least in my experience(of course Scope 3rd party guys have made those things..).

of course, whatever works is clever. the plugin in question is certainly a good product. i would have zero qualms about buying it unheard. UAD inherited several decades of it's namesake's groundbreaking work. they certainly know how to make eqs, compressors and pres. it's not like they were some undisputed kings of sound in their day, although the reputation has always been top quality. of course, their compressor was well used because of Hollywood and the fact that they were the specialists in the area. at that time, every major city with a recording business had a kick-ass little company that made wonderful specialty products. now we are sold plugins that have a known branding and are the only "good sound" anyone knows. the software company is not the audio company, of course, and they license the NEVE name, of course. i think that the heads behind the UAD name have no desire to damage the brand by releasing anything that doesn't sound right, so please don't think i'm against anyone buying that product, it could only be a good tool in the toolbox, but a Scope world is bigger than just the inside of the toolbox.

while i find the whole thing a little bit sad that enthusiasts just spend all of their money on computer products(and computers) insteasd of audio gear, i can understand the economics. $50 is easier than $1000. the thing is, at some point one has enough computer products. the sequencers, synths, eqs, compressors, delays, etc. the typical computer user has is MORE than enough. the special things that are involved with audio can't be digitized. they can barely be mass-produced. at some point, $200 and $50 and $500 and $50 and $50 and $100 and $50 and $200 becomes a really nice used mic or pre or a vintage compressor or 6-10 really awesome old delays, or complete acoustic treatment of the room. of course, this doesn't involve much immediate gratification. i think a home studio should be mainly "inside the box" because that's what a computer does best, saves space and potentially, it saves money if you keep using the thing that works and don't get on the upgrade carousel(necessary to some degree, of course).

again, i'm not suggesting that the computer products are bad or worse products, i have a job with a computer product company because i LOVE the product. i'm just a little dismayed that the computer is seen as the equal or better than the real world, as far as audio products and usability goes. sometimes the computer world is better than real workd gear, sometimes it's the same, sometimes the real world is the only way to go.

sorry for the hijack, it's just an old guy soapboxing, encouraging everyone to get even more involved in audio...

[hubird]

You don't use the sonic core SL9000 for the same purpose?

I don't have it, it's from DAS actually.
After the DAS Polteq debacle I decided nothing to buy from them ever.
What'd you say, does the SL9000 do the job?

[hubird]

channel strips kinda negate the purpose of the correct mic and pre.

To start with, yes.
As you say already there's more to tune in life

The 212L preamp is really great, also without the Apollo interface.
A dull track I had got a better starting point from it.
Scroll down and listen to the difference when using the preamp (with Apollo connected I guess):
http://www.uaudio.com/store/channel-str ... strip.html

I can imagine your sorry for disappeared variety and character of hardware.
It's good to have UAD to keep them oldies alive, virtually.

Now I will sound exactly like Rumours of Fleetwood Mac without doing anything special. Duhh

Another thing is the disappearing knowledge of how to record drums, using the acoustic ambient of the studio.
I have not much experience with it, but since I use DrumLab from NI I understand how they got that baffling drumsound in the seventies. Rumours indeed, and Peter C. Johnson from Boston, an old favourite of me.
Will show you how good DrumLab does the job, soon. I used it in a few mixes already.

[jksuperstar]

You don't use the sonic core SL9000 for the same purpose?

I don't have it, it's from DAS actually.
After the DAS Polteq debacle I decided nothing to buy from them ever.
What'd you say, does the SL9000 do the job?

Its included with SCOPE 5. I think it emulates the same channel strip, so yes.

http://www.hitfoundry.com/issue_09/SL9000.htm

[hubird]

ah, didn't know that, but I can't use v5.
Is it an emulation or 'just' a rebuild?

[tlaskows]

I don't know if i'll have the use for 88RS, but if they give me a coupon for the Quad I just bought, I may fall for it lol

-Tom

[jksuperstar]

ah, didn't know that, but I can't use v5.
Is it an emulation or 'just' a rebuild?

I can't claim I've ever used an SSL board, so I'm not sure I can verify the level of emulation. But it is intended to do that. It offers the same routability (eq, comp, gate ordering), and likely the same EQ filter types. I think it sounds great when you want a good clean high end. It doesn't do much to warm up signals unless you really know how to push the comp/eq (rather than having some "natural" distortion like many pseudo tube preamps or compressors might).

[garyb]

It's good to have UAD to keep them oldies alive, virtually.

no, they do not.

they keep an aspect of those oldies alive, but it's a very limited part of reality. it's very useful and works great, but not special. you just can't replace the multitude of factors involved in using real gear from many different sources. a plugin is generic by definition. it's the uniqueness and special qualities of that which cannot be replicated that is truly valuable, just as each human is special compared to any behavioral simulation. there's nothing wrong with this. as i said, i LOVE my computer system and it's EXTREMELY useful.

yes, it IS good that UAD and SonicCore and many other make the products that they do, but it's about audio, not computers. a house is not about the hammer that builds it, it's about the people who build, design and live in it. mass-produced methods are great for many aspects of housebuilding, but those special, handmade touches are what transforms a box into a landmark.

[hubird]

Well, I think the plugs are close enough to the original hardware to say the are equal for a human's ear.
That's the whole idea of real emulation: reacting to inputted sound in a way they do behave.
Like cranking them up to high levels of action, or making opposite settings to get that special effect (Pultec).
But you're entitled to disagree 'by template'

[tlaskows]

They don't sound bad. I think the EMT 250 sounds amazing. If they're using the same algorithm, why shouldn't it sound the same? I don't know about other stuff like compressors and EQ.

-Tom

[garyb]

who said anything was bad?

who said anything wasn't useable.

who said not to buy anything in particular?

that's a problem with communicating to someone who has already made up his mind about what is being said. if you don't know what you have lost, did you lose anything? these amazing techniques-who taught them in the first place? just keep upgrading every six months. actually, DO upgrade once in a while, but are you really saving money if you nickel and dime your way through everything in life?

[tlaskows]

Sorry, I didn't mean to put it that way.

I have S/C for my reasons.

-Tom

[hubird]

Content wise we are talking about the question if emulation really means capturing the behaviour of the hardware.
At least that's what the concept of emulation claims, and do the manufacturers like UAD.
To emulate the Api Vision it took UAD six months of measurements from the original desk...
But I admit I know almost nothing.
I don't know of serious denials of the claim however.

The Minimax was said to be very very close to the original in German reviews, just the ultimate highs were better on the latter.

[tlaskows]

Well, an emulation will never be the real thing, but who has the money to buy the real thing? If it's close enough/sounds good then it's good enough.

I keep starting wars at the UA forums about how good Sonic Core is, while they're waiting for their "synth" that Creamware had like 10 years ago. Oh boy..

-Tom

[garyb]

i keep using words like "useful".
i mentioned economics.

all i said was, AT SOME POINT, it's worth it to go a little further with audio and get a few SPECIAL pieces, just because of the love of audio, just because those things never go bad, and just because possibilities will open up because hardware and software are not identical even if the sound is more than close enough. otherwise, why would anyone buy a $250,000 console, ever?

i also said that it's better to invest in a few mic pres and mics that sound superlative, than a bunch of plugins to try to make the mics and pres that you have sound good.

oh! and i'll add, don't forget the acoustics of the listening environment and the recording environment. it's a waste to spend much money on gear and plugins, when you can't hear things correctly.

one last reminder-
i know an engineer who has owned all of the best pieces of recording gear made, or lots of those pieces. currently, he mainly uses the stock eqs in Cubase SX2 and he gets the same results he got from the very best gear(pretty darned close). it's because of his experience, and because he knows what he wants to do and why. the engineer is worth more than the gear itself.

[tlaskows]

Yes Gary,

You keep mentioning that engineer all the time

You can totally do a nice mix with stock plugins if you're really know what you're doing, I agree.

-Tom