Took The Plunge Scope 5.1
Re: Took The Plunge Scope 5.1
mastering is not about restoring anything. garbage in, garbage out still applies. if i had a miliion dollar budget, i'd still want to start with something that sounded good before mastering. it makes no sense to screw up the sound with something that sucks, just because i can spend a bunch of money fixing it in mastering.
if you get better results with a different tool, use the tool that you get the best results from. just because people doing work that means millions and millions of dollars are happy, doesn't mean that you have to be. i don't think this is a problem. personally, i don't think that the Cubase mixer sounds that great, but i do know engineers that get fantastic results using it. i prefer the Scope mixer, but my opinion isn't everything. i did have a #1 recording(in Utah! whoopee!!!), so i guess the mixer's good enough.
what is this all being played back on, in the long run? if it's just your system, and no one else will ever hear it, then hey, it's your money, do whachoolike. if it's going out to the public and will be on mp3s and cds and wavefile downloads, then it REALLY doesn't matter that much. very few have systems that will properly reproduce extra high end. in fact, the extra high end, if it is reproduced at all will be distorted and shrill. still, "musicians" are rarely scientific engineers. they're suckers for marketing. for a while, all the asshole manufacturers(Mackie?) were putting "air" buttons and the like on their mixers because it makes things "sound better". really, adding high end to something that sounds like paper to begin with will fool the casual listener for a while, until their ears become used to it. then they can't understand why their music is so hard to listen to for long periods of time. too much high end=ear fatigue. i purposely cut high end off of things. very little material requires anything above 12-15k. most people have hearing loss that makes stuff over that point silent anyway and those that hear sounds above that point usually have a fear of high end in recordings that were mixed by "musicians" with hearing loss who compensate by adding extra. you're fortunate to still hear stuff up there.
i really don't care that much. actually, i hear all the time about how great the stm2448 and 4896 mixers sound(from real working musicians and engineers, not only guys in their bedroom). i also think they sound great just as they are, myself. my opinion isn't everything, though. in your world, i can easily be wrong, and there's nothing bad about that.
anyway, you like vdat, but hate the mixers. that's fine! use what you like. get the SDK and design your own mixer that responds exactly the way you like!
if you get better results with a different tool, use the tool that you get the best results from. just because people doing work that means millions and millions of dollars are happy, doesn't mean that you have to be. i don't think this is a problem. personally, i don't think that the Cubase mixer sounds that great, but i do know engineers that get fantastic results using it. i prefer the Scope mixer, but my opinion isn't everything. i did have a #1 recording(in Utah! whoopee!!!), so i guess the mixer's good enough.
what is this all being played back on, in the long run? if it's just your system, and no one else will ever hear it, then hey, it's your money, do whachoolike. if it's going out to the public and will be on mp3s and cds and wavefile downloads, then it REALLY doesn't matter that much. very few have systems that will properly reproduce extra high end. in fact, the extra high end, if it is reproduced at all will be distorted and shrill. still, "musicians" are rarely scientific engineers. they're suckers for marketing. for a while, all the asshole manufacturers(Mackie?) were putting "air" buttons and the like on their mixers because it makes things "sound better". really, adding high end to something that sounds like paper to begin with will fool the casual listener for a while, until their ears become used to it. then they can't understand why their music is so hard to listen to for long periods of time. too much high end=ear fatigue. i purposely cut high end off of things. very little material requires anything above 12-15k. most people have hearing loss that makes stuff over that point silent anyway and those that hear sounds above that point usually have a fear of high end in recordings that were mixed by "musicians" with hearing loss who compensate by adding extra. you're fortunate to still hear stuff up there.
i really don't care that much. actually, i hear all the time about how great the stm2448 and 4896 mixers sound(from real working musicians and engineers, not only guys in their bedroom). i also think they sound great just as they are, myself. my opinion isn't everything, though. in your world, i can easily be wrong, and there's nothing bad about that.
anyway, you like vdat, but hate the mixers. that's fine! use what you like. get the SDK and design your own mixer that responds exactly the way you like!
- Mr Arkadin
- Posts: 3280
- Joined: Thu May 24, 2001 4:00 pm
Re: Took The Plunge Scope 5.1
Well I realise you won't see this post braincell, but I have just done the 'test' of using Minimax direct into the outputs and via the mixer. After matching levels I cannot hear any difference whatsoever. I am using PMC TB1S monitors with a Bryston amp in case you feel like criticisng my monitors and I have been using Elacin ER15s at loud gigs and clubs for the last 20 years to protect my ears if you feel like criticising my hearing. I must therefore conclude that you are talking rot.
Re: Took The Plunge Scope 5.1
well, there's another one.
- Mr Arkadin
- Posts: 3280
- Joined: Thu May 24, 2001 4:00 pm
Re: Took The Plunge Scope 5.1
Oh, I see braincell you're on Gearslutz trying to push the same bullshit as user "differencetone". Nice try.
Re: Took The Plunge Scope 5.1
Scope sucks, so I suggest going to KVR where the major Film Composers share their bedroom experiments and talk science with lengthy explanations and nullifications, etc.
They only play 8-16 bar noodlings too, so it would be perfect for you.
Scope guys are basically freaks who know nothing, and most of us don't even own Scope products but are lonely, so we come here to practice lying to each other.
People here even think my name is Jimmy......
But I have practiced passing lie dectection machines from story telling online and it works great.
Perfect place for confidence building.
They only play 8-16 bar noodlings too, so it would be perfect for you.
Scope guys are basically freaks who know nothing, and most of us don't even own Scope products but are lonely, so we come here to practice lying to each other.
People here even think my name is Jimmy......
But I have practiced passing lie dectection machines from story telling online and it works great.
Perfect place for confidence building.
Re: Took The Plunge Scope 5.1
You are right. And I apologise. I was 'trolling' - you know - saying stuff just to get a reaction.braincell wrote:This is nothing more than a high tech lynching of an uppity SC user. I fail to see your reason for personally attacking me when I didn't personally attack you. It is time for you to move on from my thread if I may stoop to your juvenile, condescending tone.dante wrote:Sounds like it's time for you to move on. You could get yourself a soundblastard, or why not get Apollo ? You know they have achieved 'no noticeable latency' ... Now that's impressive !!
I hadnt heard of this 'Bryston' before - now within one week I hear of two Scope users that have one. Must be a good amp.Mr Arkadin wrote:I am using PMC TB1S monitors with a Bryston amp
Re: Took The Plunge Scope 5.1
Bryston is pretty freaking high end....
Re: Took The Plunge Scope 5.1
Thats what I thought - if at least 2 discerning Scope users own one I figure that to be more than just coincidence...
Re: Took The Plunge Scope 5.1
Yeah saw that - looks kinda slick ! And they've been around for a while judging by the classic look of Bud's (mid '90s).
- Mr Arkadin
- Posts: 3280
- Joined: Thu May 24, 2001 4:00 pm
Re: Took The Plunge Scope 5.1
I hadn't heard of them until I started working at a post house in London in the '90s (Molinare - Numan's Cars video was shot here) and they had PMCs and Brystons in their top-end dubbing theatres. The PMC TB1S which I use as top-notch near-fields they used as their rear surround speakers! Their main speakers were MB1s which I think stood (unnofficially) for Massive Bastards or Mighty Bastards: whichever it is they're huge. The amps they were powering off were Bryston 4Bs as I recall - three or four 4U racks of amp goodness! I have the tiny 1U Bryston 2B amp which was the smallest they did (not sure if they still do them). It is really two mono-blocks in one rack unit. The Bryston comes with a 20 year guarantee, even if you buy it second-hand.
As it happens the staff engineer knew one of the bosses at PMC (who sadly died quite some time ago - he wasn't even that old), so I got a very good deal on the PMCs and Bryston. I believe PMC speakers were originally designed by ex-BBC engineers. I think UK and German speakers are still the best in the world.
Actually I am deciding whether to spend some money on getting the newer PMC TB2A-S which are update TB1Ss with amps built in as I need some more speakers. They aren't cheap though.
As it happens the staff engineer knew one of the bosses at PMC (who sadly died quite some time ago - he wasn't even that old), so I got a very good deal on the PMCs and Bryston. I believe PMC speakers were originally designed by ex-BBC engineers. I think UK and German speakers are still the best in the world.
Actually I am deciding whether to spend some money on getting the newer PMC TB2A-S which are update TB1Ss with amps built in as I need some more speakers. They aren't cheap though.
Re: Took The Plunge Scope 5.1
Getting off-topic but oh well...
So Dante, I nearly went for Bryston but then ended up with a Brook Audio NS10AMP designed and hand built by a Mr Hornybrook (from Melbourne I think) which is what the PMC Distributor here in OZ used to demo with. Way back when they were still being made Prince bought quite a few for his studios as soon as he heard them apparently. I have the PMC TB2's.
So Dante, I nearly went for Bryston but then ended up with a Brook Audio NS10AMP designed and hand built by a Mr Hornybrook (from Melbourne I think) which is what the PMC Distributor here in OZ used to demo with. Way back when they were still being made Prince bought quite a few for his studios as soon as he heard them apparently. I have the PMC TB2's.
Stuart.
Re: Took The Plunge Scope 5.1
more nice stuff....
- Mr Arkadin
- Posts: 3280
- Joined: Thu May 24, 2001 4:00 pm
Re: Took The Plunge Scope 5.1
I prefer this off topic stuff to the bc bs earlier in this thread.
I dread to think how much PMCs must cost in Oz though.
I dread to think how much PMCs must cost in Oz though.
- Nestor
- Posts: 6676
- Joined: Tue Mar 27, 2001 4:00 pm
- Location: Fourth Dimension Paradise, Cloud Nine!
Re: Took The Plunge Scope 5.1
This is a master point of view about mastering... really. All the mayor pro guys out there would say exactly this. I now tend to be very careful about what I do from the beginning and on, so everything sits right from the start, instate of trying to fix it on the mix.garyb wrote:mastering is not about restoring anything. garbage in, garbage out still applies. if i had a miliion dollar budget, i'd still want to start with something that sounded good before mastering. it makes no sense to screw up the sound with something that sucks, just because i can spend a bunch of money fixing it in mastering.
*MUSIC* The most Powerful Language in the world! *INDEED*
Re: Took The Plunge Scope 5.1
When I was in A.C.T. (early 80's) I bought a load of stuff from Nunzio Gambale (owner of Pro Audio Supplies brother of guitar legend Frank Gambale) - a great bloke who gave me some good deals, once I bought a Tascam 8 track.bassdude wrote:So Dante, I nearly went for Bryston but then ended up with a Brook Audio NS10AMP designed and hand built by a Mr Hornybrook (from Melbourne I think) which is what the PMC Distributor here in OZ used to demo with. Way back when they were still being made Prince bought quite a few for his studios as soon as he heard them apparently. I have the PMC TB2's.
I was also getting great deals also from Troy Music here in Melbourne in 90's. Once you buy a certain amount from any dealer you can normally get around 20% off anything as standard - sometimes more with an occasional 'special' deal. They even took a loss on a few of my trade-ins on stuff that never re-sold.Mr Arkadin wrote:I dread to think how much PMCs must cost in Oz though.
That could be the case as well with stuff like the PMC's I'm sure.