Midi controllers Pro One,Minimax,Profit5

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yayajohn
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Midi controllers Pro One,Minimax,Profit5

Post by yayajohn »

http://sound-force.nl/

Not sure which Scope synths don't store the CC's properly but it might be worth getting for those interested in a hardware controller.
Especially if you use one of the three very often

oh and 15Euro off with promo code: quarantine

petal
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Re: Midi controllers Pro One,Minimax,Profit5

Post by petal »

All synths made by Creamware, including Bowens synths (Solaris, Q-wave) doesn't store all cc's properly.

1. Some cc's will be "forgotten" upon recall,
2. others, which is more serious, will be recalled, but completely change the behavior of the affected parameter, which will in some cases change the sound of the synth.

Most of the important knobs on the Profit in this case, seems to be stored properly though, not sure about the buttons though.
Last edited by petal on Tue Mar 24, 2020 6:06 am, edited 1 time in total.

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spacef
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Re: Midi controllers Pro One,Minimax,Profit5

Post by spacef »

It is a matter of "total midi CC inside a single project" rather than a single device. I tried with my own devices and I could not go beyond 111 or 118 CC hardwired (ie set in scope sdk) in DXD synths or in modular mixer v 1. That's why since then, I don't advise going beyond a dozen of midi CC per device that you set acording to your current needs.

One day I might try something like https://www.google.com/search?q=midi+co ... e&ie=UTF-8

or just get some cheap midi controller such as behringer's x-touch mini or korg's (or a midi keyboard with rotary and faders). I don't have any midi controller right now and it is really missing, even to edit sounds. the pro-one controller mentionned by YayaJohn is actually what motivated me to look into arduino (there are other controllers too).
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yayajohn
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Re: Midi controllers Pro One,Minimax,Profit5

Post by yayajohn »

Well hopefully it is one of the things Holger is looking at. If I had more room I might look at getting one of these, doesn't make any sense but there's a certain satisfaction associated with turning a physical knob as opposed to clicking a mouse.
Some people say the opposite though so to each his own.

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Re: Midi controllers Pro One,Minimax,Profit5

Post by petal »

Why not get a Behringer Pro 1? It does the same job, price is the same, and there's an analogue synth in there as well ;)

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Re: Midi controllers Pro One,Minimax,Profit5

Post by yayajohn »

petal wrote:
Tue Mar 24, 2020 11:01 am
Why not get a Behringer Pro 1? It does the same job, price is the same, and there's an analogue synth in there as well ;)
polyphony, presets and automation? How about having both? :D

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Re: Midi controllers Pro One,Minimax,Profit5

Post by petal »

What I mean is, you can use the Pro1 as a midi-controller for the Profit5 if that's what you need, and in addition you get the analogue synth engine as well :)

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Re: Midi controllers Pro One,Minimax,Profit5

Post by yayajohn »

Oh really?? That's good news, I have a neutron and a D, I didn't think those knobs transmitted midi data? Is the Pro 1 different?
Also to me the whole point is to have it match exactly what is on the screen. Otherwise there are lots of controllers with far superior capabilities out there.

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Re: Midi controllers Pro One,Minimax,Profit5

Post by spacef »

the behringer clones and cheap synths don't have midi cc functions (or at least it is very limited to basic stuff like pitch bend - sometimes - and they cannot be used as a midi controller interface) . those synths are better used with KrOn which can convert midi CC into CV signals (V/Oct or Hz/V) by using an audio or adat to cv interface, saving the need for a hardware midi to cv converter (shameless advertising - having fun - lol) ;-)
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Re: Midi controllers Pro One,Minimax,Profit5

Post by Spielraum »

i working with 2x bcr2000 (many encoders) + promix01 (17 motorFader 4xbanks) > controller midi merge > cubase generic control setting> scope > cubase / live > controller for many years. and i am happy. for me it is important that everything runs bidirectionally. layout template on it, and off we go.

the mackie c4 was very brilliant, unfortunately only in one direction, so I pushed it off. too bad that mackie stopped development early :(. bcr2000 + parameter display would be awesome ... unfortunately i waiting in vain for years
sometimes I play a little bit with the c4 commander and dream of how beautiful everything could be, but nobody understands me
c4-test
would be my dream if bidirectional
would be my dream if bidirectional
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Re: Midi controllers Pro One,Minimax,Profit5

Post by jpo_midigods »

Hey Spielraum I understand you since i also have the C4 stopped. I bought it really cheap only for Scope control, and I found that the hardware is very simple, each pot sends only the increment and thats all. So it needs the C4commander software or other.

You have to receive this increment, sum to the cc previous value stored in an array of ccs, then map the value to the cc out and send it to your synth midi in port.

I had problems recognizing in Modular two identical cc messages, like when you move the pot 2 steps.

Also you have to send C4 documented sysex to draw the new value in the C4 screen so you are bidirectional. I managed to do this succesfully from BCModular sysex module but i do not recommend using Scope Modular for generate screen texts.

Scope Modular is really powerful but it lacks something every visual programming tool has to have: a script interpreter module to write simple code not audio dsp related. Quartz Composer had javascript module and now VCVrack also has one.

I started then to write a js plugin in reaper that manages all very clean. Problem is that nobody wants to be on front of Scope beast to write midi code instead of sounding like a beast... so its unfinished.
Now im evaluating VCVrack on a laptop when away for developing it as an eurorack module, then port to Scope.

I also have the BCR2000 mapped to minimax and the Korg iMS20 controller with my own MS20 synth developed on Modular and I can say Scope synths with dedicated surface is touching heaven with your fingers.

cheers,
jpo

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Re: Midi controllers Pro One,Minimax,Profit5

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Re: Midi controllers Pro One,Minimax,Profit5

Post by petal »

Sorry my fault about the BPro1 having CC. I thought it did:

"Comprehensive USB/MIDI implementation with MIDI channel and Voice Priority selection"

https://www.behringer.com/Categories/Be ... ans(en|en)

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Re: Midi controllers Pro One,Minimax,Profit5

Post by petal »

I guess the Roland SE-02 would work as I originally intended, and it is not much more expensive than the new midi-controller.

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Re: Midi controllers Pro One,Minimax,Profit5

Post by spacef »

petal wrote:
Wed Mar 25, 2020 12:07 am
Sorry my fault about the BPro1 having CC. I thought it did:

"Comprehensive USB/MIDI implementation with MIDI channel and Voice Priority selection"

https://www.behringer.com/Categories/Be ... ans(en|en)
they also say "Authentic reproduction of original circuitry with legendary 3340 and 3320 semiconductors".
"Authentic reproduction".. :roll: :o :lol:
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Re: Midi controllers Pro One,Minimax,Profit5

Post by Spielraum »

valis wrote:
Tue Mar 24, 2020 11:55 pm
We have Scopesync: https://github.com/bcmodular/scopesync
exactly! generic control <> scopesync.dll or my bcd512.dll
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Re: Midi controllers Pro One,Minimax,Profit5

Post by valis »

I'm not sure the Mackie controllers can do CC's as I think they only do HUI, MC & LC modes. Correct me if I'm wrong there as I haven't had one for a while (and I use Logic).

However the BCF & BCR controllers can do any of the above (well, no LC specifically but MC/HUI & MIDI are all there). I never use HUI or MC/LC modes on any of the gear I've had that supported it, and the LC unit I lusted after no longer seems as necessary. I should note I've had issues with HUI & MC modes when bidirectional feedback was enabled, I suspected that the Behringer implementation is causing a midi loop and stopped using it. Didn't have that issue with Mackie controllers.

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Re: Midi controllers Pro One,Minimax,Profit5

Post by jpo_midigods »

Yeah sorry i forgot ScopeSync,

The Mackie C4 hardware sends only midi cc and receive only sysex, afaik. You move the pot 1, it sends midi ch1 cc1 with the movement value coded. Then receive sysex for leds and screens. It relies heavily on the computer so it has small chip inside and no standalone use. Its the opposite of BCR2000 that is a full programmable midi computer on its own.

Since Scope is always tied to a windows box you always have midi host capabilities at hand so the C4 its the best Scope dedicated controller imho.

C4 has midi channel and cc number hardcoded, and value is 1 for smallest movement (clic) to 15 for largest and fastest turn. Problem is cc means control change or continous control, many midi systems do not recognize a cc value that is not changing.

So if you make 1 clic to the right on pot 1, the C4 sends cc 1 val 1. Then you repeat the move and again sends cc1 val 1. Since this does not change the current val of cc1, which is 1, im not be able to detect this second message in Modular. Well, i can detect it but not if you turn the knob slow but continuosly, clic-clic-clic so an increment of 3 is not detected.

If someone knows how to detect a midi cc message that does not change the current val of this cc in Modular, please let me know, as i get stucked here.

The bidirectional side, using the Modular to compound and send fixed C4 sysex for fixed labels and update the led rings its not difficult, and it works for me.

But if you want to show precise, updated values on C4 screens and not only labels, its easier to use a scripting languaje outside Scope,

jpo

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Re: Midi controllers Pro One,Minimax,Profit5

Post by Spielraum »

...and if it should go quickly, then i'll grab the mouse anyway and brush a curve.
haptic are great to imagine in my dreams,
but in practice they are very time-consuming and very often too complicated.
!"§$%&/?

the only real joy is:
screw directly on the device, record 8 tracks, and go :P
play with me
play with me
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Re: Midi controllers Pro One,Minimax,Profit5

Post by valis »

Thanks for the clarification on the MIDI functionality, since LC & MC modes aren't identical and I recall being able to switch to HUI mode on them as well. So wasn't sure if MIDI was also added at some point. Also understood in regards to their inc/dec messages. There are 3 kinds of these typically in use on last checking, if someone goes to the length of supporting LC/MC it would be probably good to also have the facility to support the other modes.

I'm judging there are at least 3 based on what various software I have allows me to use, including Resolume & VDMX which is VJ software. Should be trials available for both, and I'm willing to help test if necessary as well.

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