The new UA recording system - L U N A

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mk_vip
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The new UA recording system - L U N A

Post by mk_vip »

https://www.uaudio.com/luna

The new UA recording system - L U N A :o :o :o
If the rights of the LUNA trademark belongs to Sonic Core now ( previously belongs to CreamWare GmbH), I think Holger need to get in touch with Universal Audio at NAMM show...
Logo concept is very similar to Creamware's LUNA... don't you think ?
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garyb
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Re: The new UA recording system - L U N A

Post by garyb »

pirates.

i'm moving this to off-topic.

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Re: The new UA recording system - L U N A

Post by garyb »

there might not be much that SonicCore can do, since SC is not Creamware.

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dante
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Re: The new UA recording system - L U N A

Post by dante »

Maybe Pink Noise Studios can have a crack at em then. Dont like their chances tho...
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mk_vip
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Re: The new UA recording system - L U N A

Post by mk_vip »

Never seen this synth...
But CreamW@re was the first ;)
All it's old logos are brilliant (luna,pulsar... especially telescope)

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valis
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Re: The new UA recording system - L U N A

Post by valis »

Not just Skeuomorphic, but wooden paneling to boot! How's it sound?

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dante
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Re: The new UA recording system - L U N A

Post by dante »

Nothing special. Just a cheap synth I guess. Don’t think I have it actually as Bowen stuff is my goto synth fir current projects.

https://youtu.be/_k3-94o0rcI

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Re: The new UA recording system - L U N A

Post by Spielraum »

it's amazing how often the wheel is reinvented, but the decisive factor is how often it is cleaned and the spokes retightened. Wheels are invented too often and sadly put in the corner when not enough refrigerators are filled. how far would the progress be if everyone worked together in peace ... mmhh ok, then the market would also fall asleep due to a lack of competition ,,, ok then as usual. and I continue to ponder the "half-finished" good old scope tools, after ... uijuijui, I got an idea when i typed on the block,> then i'm offline and tinker with "xy-wanted.dsp" ..hihi

ps.:
dante, can you save the GO animation, to pirates the pirates :lol:
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Re: The new UA recording system - L U N A

Post by valis »

well every vehicles needs wheels, and we certainly have many virtual vehicles for musicians at this point :)

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Sounddesigner
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Re: The new UA recording system - L U N A

Post by Sounddesigner »

I believe UA have been stealing ideas and developers from SCOPE for a long time now, this LUNA named DAW is just strong proof they are Pirates and fully confirms it now. Their platform looks more and more like SCOPE as time passes. As soon as their MPACT2 dsp chip showed itself as a bad idea they migrated their platform to the exactly same dsp's as SCOPE and used SCOPE developers to create a SDK like SCOPE and to develop third-party plugins like SCOPE. Then they go into Zero-latency interfaces like SCOPE and named it Apollo after a Space oriented object like SCOPE (Pulsar, Luna, Rocketbooster). Now LUNA DAW is another space object name that was actually a name itself used by Creamware , plus they now also have a Minimoog synth like SCOPE. I knew they were pirates and these latest offerings fully prove it since they are so blatant.. I don't believe in MANY coincidences.

PS. They also stole Unison Mic Pre technology from Liquidmix dsp platform.

EDITED

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Re: The new UA recording system - L U N A

Post by valis »

It's fairly common to emulate what competitors are doing, stealing would mean outright use of intellectual property. When it comes to DSPs, there's only 2 real players in the market: Analog Devices & Motorola. My understanding is that the Analog Devices SDK exposes a lot of the functionality that we know in Scope and would make it easier for someone using the same foundation to create a functionally similar product.

But where is Scope still superior to almost all others?

We've just come through an era where many are more comfortable in their DAW than in outboard roles for sound design and recording, and UAD has always supported that route first and foremost. XTC in our camp is on hiatus for modern platforms (alleged to return someday), sure. But make no mistake that Scope is still far far superior in an outboard context, played and used as you would any other hardware device in your workspace.

So the answer: Scope i's functionally identical to hardware, bolts into our software environments (via host computer and i/o), and remains one of the final products on the market to do so with products like the TC System 6000 long ago becoming legacy products. The real concern of course is that Scope remains a niche userbase and has only Holger and GaryB to champion us as users.

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Re: The new UA recording system - L U N A

Post by garyb »

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=N-6Y93GQuEQ

poor little lambs who have lost our way, baaa, baaa, baa
little black sheep who have gone astray, baa, baa, baa.....

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Re: The new UA recording system - L U N A

Post by dante »

If they stole anything at all, the most important part of what they’re doing (sonically which is where it matters) comes from Harrison, not Scope.

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Re: The new UA recording system - L U N A

Post by garyb »

:lol:
while Harrison certainly was a popular desk in many large studios, i have never heard that Harrison was one of the best mixers AUDIO-wise. they were certainly favored by dirty rock producers(the music, not the producers). they were always considered thin and gritty, perfect for hard rock. i really do not think that the plugin is a good replacement for the actual hardware, but it is a pretty good sounding product. it's not that there is anything really WRONG with the hardware or the plugin, but i am still amazed that marketing has brought the Harrison name to the top of the industry. i can think of others that i would prefer. i think the opinion on the hardware differs depending on whether in Europe, the UK, or the USA...

these days the Harrison sound is considered very smooth and transparent(maybe that's why it was once thought to be thin), i don't know why the reputation was that it was gritty. afaik, the real advantage to the Harrison was it's build quality and it's EXCELLENT mic pres. none of this is in the emulation.

i'd say that this is really UAD's(and others who license names) biggest advantage. the fact that they can claim that their emulations are more properly made, since they are allowed to use famous trademarks. the reality is that emulations sound NOTHING like the original, if you want to be pedantic about it, but that doesn't means that they are not useful, or that they do not sound GREAT.

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Re: The new UA recording system - L U N A

Post by Spielraum »

so, back from mars, and on to venus ...
great view through my scope, ... bold finds, amazing that for 20 years new ideas can still be tinkered, well I'll kneel down <dsp>
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Re: The new UA recording system - L U N A

Post by valis »

garyb wrote:
Sun Jan 26, 2020 9:13 am
i'd say that this is really UAD's(and others who license names) biggest advantage. the fact that they can claim that their emulations are more properly made, since they are allowed to use famous trademarks. the reality is that emulations sound NOTHING like the original, if you want to be pedantic about it, but that doesn't means that they are not useful, or that they do not sound GREAT.
On this we're agreed, I was saying that this is their chief marketing tactic in another recent thread, and a successful one at that.

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Re: The new UA recording system - L U N A

Post by Sounddesigner »

valis wrote:
Sat Jan 25, 2020 9:12 am
It's fairly common to emulate what competitors are doing, stealing would mean outright use of intellectual property.


Emulations are common but not always welcomed by the company whos products are being emulated :D . It's just often they can do nothing about it and the market accepts and tolerates to some degree such emulation/copying/etc. When i owned SSL Duende plugins there was a thread on GS about them and i remember Jim from SSL was very angry that Cytomic and other Native developers was emulating the SSL compressors and he indeed viewed it as stealing and angrily lashed out at those doing the emulating. He did praise Waves and UA since their SSL emulations were authorized and payments are being made to SSL for the branding of said official emulations. Everybody who creates anything in life does some degree of copying from someone else but one has to know the boundaries to not cross or that someone else will view it as stealing, especially when their livelihood depends on their creations wich are copied. The market may accept much emulations but its not always wanted by the originators, cause such can cut into their profits. Likewise if UA make their platform exactly like SCOPE with a complete set of REALtime tools (synths, effects, samplers, drumsynths, etc) a Modular and a SDK for the users, then why would anyone want to by SCOPE? Emulating/copying/etc is not a victimless offense when done to a major extent.

valis wrote:
Sat Jan 25, 2020 9:12 am
When it comes to DSPs, there's only 2 real players in the market: Analog Devices & Motorola. My understanding is that the Analog Devices SDK exposes a lot of the functionality that we know in Scope and would make it easier for someone using the same foundation to create a functionally similar product.
There are more than 2 'main' dsp's manufacturers and there are multiple unconventional solutions (when UA used the MPACT2 long ago that was unconventional solution). Texas-Instruments is a major player. Avid left Motorola and ported the Protools HDX platform to Texas-instruments dsp's. The HDX plugins run on TI dsp's and its Mixer runs on a FPGA Processor. There is also unconventional solutions like Waves Soundgrid REALtime co-processor wich uses a intel computer or Kurzweils solution wich is a custome made dsp for their Synth Workstation. UA has hinted at they were currently designing their own chip processor for the future when many of their users were complaining about the lack of power in mainstream dsp's. There is also multiple families of dsp's with many models in those families even with Analog Devices alone so it's just a little suspicious that UA ended up using the exact same chip as SCOPE, its the same family and same model. On its own using the same chip as SCOPE does'nt mean much but when i look at all the suspicious moves they made at a whole and it looks like they are copying SCOPE. It's the whole picture.
valis wrote:
Sat Jan 25, 2020 9:12 am
But where is Scope still superior to almost all others?

We've just come through an era where many are more comfortable in their DAW than in outboard roles for sound design and recording, and UAD has always supported that route first and foremost. XTC in our camp is on hiatus for modern platforms (alleged to return someday), sure. But make no mistake that Scope is still far far superior in an outboard context, played and used as you would any other hardware device in your workspace.

So the answer: Scope i's functionally identical to hardware, bolts into our software environments (via host computer and i/o), and remains one of the final products on the market to do so with products like the TC System 6000 long ago becoming legacy products. The real concern of course is that Scope remains a niche userbase and has only Holger and GaryB to champion us as users.
Yea, SCOPE still has its advantages, but the gap is closing overtime with UAD. Just my 2 cents ofcourse.
Last edited by Sounddesigner on Sun Jan 26, 2020 10:28 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: The new UA recording system - L U N A

Post by dante »

The similarities between Scope and UAD are like chalk and cheese to me and very, very use case dependent. I use them and native processors all for different complimentary purposes. UAD is a long way off what I use Scope for and vice versa. As is Rack Extension vs VST vs Reason SSL vs Harrison MB32.

None of them can replace any other but all together in the one system they are a powerhouse.

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Re: The new UA recording system - L U N A

Post by valis »

Sounddesigner wrote:
Sun Jan 26, 2020 8:20 pm
There are more than 2 'main' dsp's manufacturers and there are multiple unconventional solutions (when UA used the MPACT2 long ago that was unconventional solution). Texas-Instruments is a major player. Avid left Motorola and ported the Protools HDX platform to Texas-instruments dsp's. The HDX plugins run on TI dsp's and its Mixer runs on a FPGA Processor. There is also unconventional solutions like Waves Soundgrid REALtime co-processor wich uses a intel computer or Kurzweils solution wich is a custome made dsp for their Synth Workstation. UA has hinted at they were currently designing their own chip processor for the future when many of their users were complaining about the lack of power in mainstream dsp's. There is also multiple families of dsp's with many models in those families even with Analog Devices alone so it's just a little suspicious that UA ended up using the exact same chip as SCOPE, its the same family and same model. On its own using the same chip as SCOPE does'nt mean much but when i look at all the suspicious moves they made at a whole and it looks like they are copying SCOPE. It's the whole picture
No disagreement that there's more solutions on the market, and custom made DSPs is where this all started, until companies started absorbing these products just for the Intellectual Property (looking at YOU soundblaster/creative labs). TI, Xylinx, x86, MIPS and more can be put to many uses of course, and TI is actually used across so many industries it's rediculous. They did create the first silicon transistor after all. Heavily embedded in the Defense & Ecommerce world, it's a sure bet to find their components in a lot of our gear (especially as they make a lot of the interface components to bridge the analog & digital divide).

Still, Motorola and A.D. have been used widely enough in the audio industry to have SDK's that facilitate getting up & running pretty quickly. Which isn't to say that other solutions don't have an SDK, but if you check these they give the basics pretty much out of the box.

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Re: The new UA recording system - L U N A

Post by garyb »

dante wrote:
Sun Jan 26, 2020 10:03 pm
The similarities between Scope and UAD are like chalk and cheese to me and very, very use case dependent. I use them and native processors all for different complimentary purposes. UAD is a long way off what I use Scope for and vice versa. As is Rack Extension vs VST vs Reason SSL vs Harrison MB32.

None of them can replace any other but all together in the one system they are a powerhouse.

for sure.

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