Piano for Scope

[yayajohn]

We've got lots of great synths, a great organ and even a great guitar.
Will we ever have a grand piano? Like Viscount's Physis maybe?

[dante]

'Total Piano' ( Classic Stereo Piano ) comes on the Creamware 'The Sample Collection' for STS samplers.

[yayajohn]

a DSP based one please

and while were wishing, how bout a DSP woodwind/brass for my EWI

[dante]

You mean physically modelled like pianoteq ? Doubt it. I mean, FM can do great Elec Pianos, but I imagine a heck of a lot of work went into Pianoteq so its probably worth the price and too much work for a DSP programmer to make cheaper. If you dont need all that PianoTeq offers in terms of control (127 velocities per note etc) to justify its price you're probably back looking at just using the STS one or other AKAI/VST freeware one for cheap anyways.

I just use stock Halion or Kontakt ones which do the job in the absence of enough pro use to justify PianoTeq

[Cresthen]

Hi yayajohn.

a great organ

Which one do you mean?

[yayajohn]

You mean physically modelled like pianoteq ? Doubt it. I mean, FM can do great Elec Pianos, but I imagine a heck of a lot of work went into Pianoteq so its probably worth the price and too much work for a DSP programmer to make cheaper. If you dont need all that PianoTeq offers in terms of control (127 velocities per note etc) to justify its price you're probably back looking at just using the STS one or other AKAI/VST freeware one for cheap anyways.

I just use stock Halion or Kontakt ones which do the job in the absence of enough pro use to justify PianoTeq

yes Physically Modeled like Viscount Physis. Why do I have to settle for a VST sampler when I've got Scope DSP's? I'm not really looking for cheap, I mean how much is SixString or Solaris or Flexor 3? Many have invested thousands of dollars in this platform and I'd rather not be forced to upgrade my computer and ram and operating system to account for the extra large sample memory requirement for a VST instrument. I'd rather spend my money on a device associated with the development of Scope and Sonic Core. The synths here are really good and top quality and well, if you're a keyboard player like me, then a really good piano sure would help with the ultimate goal of VST free.

Dan

[yayajohn]

Hi yayajohn.

a great organ

Which one do you mean?

B2003? I think it's great.......never had the pleasure of playing the real thing though so take it for whatever it's worth, sure is better sounding than the SK20 I grew up with though

[dante]

yes Physically Modeled like Viscount Physis. Why do I have to settle for a VST sampler when I've got Scope DSP's? I'm not really looking for cheap, I mean how much is SixString or Solaris or Flexor 3? Many have invested thousands of dollars in this platform and I'd rather not be forced to upgrade my computer and ram and operating system to account for the extra large sample memory requirement for a VST instrument. I'd rather spend my money on a device associated with the development of Scope and Sonic Core. The synths here are really good and top quality and well, if you're a keyboard player like me, then a really good piano sure would help with the ultimate goal of VST free.

Dan

I agree it would be great if there was one, but if it happens and its cheaper than PianoTeq (but just as good), I'd be extremely (but pleasantly) surprised...and one of the first in line to buy it.

[yayajohn]

does that include the price to upgrade your computer and operating system?

cheers


Dan

[dante]

Why would I need to ?

[yayajohn]

well I guess you've already upgraded to win7 64 bit with a hefty amt of ram? Not sure what the PianoTeq or Ivory requirements are but I'm using my CP300 piano on an xp machine and it's fine for now.
IMHO a physically modeled DSP based piano equivalent to the Physis would fit very nicely into the excellent palette of musical tools we already have.
(I understand though that guitar players probably could give 2 shits lol)

[garyb]

extra ram won't help a phymod piano necessarily. it's mainly for sampled stuff(of course, you do need enough, whatever that is...).

most people do NOT benefit ftom 64bit, even if many or even most of those here at PZ do, or think that they do. it really depends on what you are fdoing and what apps you are using. for traditional audio and recording, massive amounts of memory aren't needed or usable. 64bit is just a pain to be avoided. those using lots of huge sample libraries and who can't commit a part to audio, or those using those sampled instruments live and wishing to have them all loaded, all the time will be the ones who need the fastest machine running 64bit with tons of ram.

most people do not need a new computer, regardless of what the industry might prefer...of course, this doesn't mean that you can't or shouldn't get a new computer....

[dante]

well I guess you've already upgraded to win7 64 bit with a hefty amt of ram? Not sure what the PianoTeq or Ivory requirements are but I'm using my CP300 piano on an xp machine and it's fine for now.

Nope. Still on WinXP32 w/ 4gigs. But when I spoke about being first in line to buy, I was referring to a DSP PhysMod, which would not need extra ram.

Im not contemplating buying PianoTeq, but even if I was, thier website says 256K ram needed - LOL - maybe thats BS if you're talking usable polyphony. But at the moment, I can run Jaco Pastorius Bass + LA Session Strings (Lite) plus NeoKey suitcase Rhodes as Kontakt VST's - the prospect of running PianoTeq would not be the breaking point forcing 64bit for me, coz the VST acoustic pianos I mentioned suffice.

But when that breaking point comes, I will be expecting several benefits the least of which will be a piano with 127 velocities per note.

[ehasting]

btw: does anyone has the 'The Sample Collection' for STS samplers. with the piano included?

[jhulk]

i can create a modular patch of a piano with lots of sample osc for multi sample so not much transpose will be done

they will be all in mono with a poly out to the eq and filter section keeping the dsp count down and 1 vca and ar envelope with chorus and phaser and delay and reverb effects

if interested in beta testing it for me let me know

[Bud Weiser]

yes Physically Modeled like Viscount Physis.

It woud be brilliant if we could get physically modelled acoustic-/e-pianos for SCOPE,- but I doubt we will or should.

Physis Piano runs on a s**tload of Texas Instruments processors combined w/ ARM Cortex processors:
6 TI OMAP DSP + ARM Cortex A-15 MP Core processors up to 2 GHz each and there are multi core POWER VR SGX544-MPX graphic accellerators (TI 2D Bit Blt graphics accellerator).
I´m not sure the developement is based on the OMAP 4 or 5 generation and what will be in when ready,- maybe the latest generation OMAP 5.
This developement isn´t new and Viscount has experiences already because they modelled their organs first.
In addition, it´s OS seems to be Windows embedded or Linux.

I´m not sure if SHARC DSPs will offer that power needed to run a comparable physical model engine at all and if, it might cost all the DSP power of a XITE-1 just only to run 1 model.

The developement would cost Sonic Core or any other developer lots of time and money and there is no guarantee it will be on par w/ competitors or better.

I think, when the Physis Piano will be released one day and is really good,- it´s much easier to buy one and use it as a masterkeyboard for XITE/SCOPE.

With DPs, you don´t want only the sound but also the action and in most DPs, the action is perfectly adjusted for best connectivity to the sound engine.

If you want acoustic piano for SCOPE,- use a William Coakley Piano in AKAI format for STS Sampler and if you want usable Clavinet, Wurly and Rhodes,- look for Wizoo "Magnetica" sample CD in AKAI format and use w/ STS-4000.
There´s also a sampled Hammond B3 included,- but that´s 2nd row to me.

Why do I have to settle for a VST sampler when I've got Scope DSP's?

Probably you won´t have to if waiting for improvements of SCOPE 6.
I don´t know what they will have in the pipeline for STS samplers,- maybe more sample format import or usage of more RAM.
The STS sampler sounds good, but has some issues and it doesn´t support enough library formats,- but all could be fixed/improved by software update.

I'm not really looking for cheap, I mean how much is SixString or Solaris or Flexor 3? Many have invested thousands of dollars in this platform and I'd rather not be forced to upgrade my computer and ram and operating system to account for the extra large sample memory requirement for a VST instrument. I'd rather spend my money on a device associated with the development of Scope and Sonic Core. The synths here are really good and top quality and well, if you're a keyboard player like me, then a really good piano sure would help with the ultimate goal of VST free.

Dan

Well, possibly you´ll have to upgrade your computer for SCOPE 6 already,- who knows ?
With ParseQ, VST integration is promised to be much easier than using XTC/VSTIM, the channel strips being calculated on XITE DSPs then.

Six String, Solaris and Flexor is all synths,- not comparable to acoustic piano models.
I´d say, modelling a Clavinet and electric pianos is also easier than modelling an acoustic piano.
Clavinet D6 might be the easiest and most comparable to the SixString.

In VST world, we alread have a modelled Clavinet D6,- GSi ZD6 as well as a Rhodes GSi MrRay mk II.
These engines will be improved too next future and since Guido´s Crumar Mojo organ (VB3-2 model) and Hamichord (same engine) work very very good.

I see better VSTi usage w/ upcoming ParseQ and SCOPE and there´s no need to run Gigabyte sample libraries to make quality music.

Bud

[yayajohn]

ah I'm beginning to see the picture now. A lot more technical challenges involved other than just writing an algo for the sharc dsp's.
Well then you are right, a whole new master keyboard will be the way to go when my current one dies. I like my CP300 cause it's got built in speakers and a pitch and mod wheel and a halfway decent piano sound, didn't break the bank either. The samples are dated though and there are a lot better sounds avail on the newer pianos these days.
Perhaps a Solaris/Physis combo in the future.........one can dream right?

[jhulk]

with experimenting with modular i can get a 9 sample multisample instrument

playing with 10 notes poly on my 36 dsp system at 20% of dsp power

and on my 27 dsp system i can get 10 notes poly with 26% of dsp power

pianos are very easy as they dont use multi filters or envelopes

or lots of modulation inputs

i reackon i can get a 18 sample multisample piano instrument with 10 note poly with about 40-60 % of dsp resources

ill be sending it to jimmyv and dante for beta testing before i release to forum

[Bud Weiser]

Perhaps a Solaris/Physis combo in the future.........one can dream right?

Well, being a keyboardplayer, that´s my near future target ...

Physis Piano (if it´s really good and reliable), midied into my Kurzweil PC361 (as a ROMpler and main MIDI controller engine), J.B. Solaris (because I want the synth haptics and displays) and a small rack w/ XITE-1, Ferrofish A16mkII and Alyseum MIDI over LAN interface.
A laptop running SCOPE 6 (w/ ParseQ when available) and Reason 6.5, very few VSTis like OPX ProII, Uhe Zebra 2.5 and NI Kontakt.
Another small rack w/ power stabilizer/conditioner & a UPS.

Not only a dream for me,- just waiting for SCOPE 6, ParseQ, availability of Physis Piano and the announcement Solaris gets MIDI multi mode update.
Let´s see what comes @ winter NAMM.

At home, I connect the small XITE-1 rack to my main DAW machine and I´m done.

Bud

[Bud Weiser]

with experimenting with modular i can get a 9 sample multisample instrument

playing with 10 notes poly on my 36 dsp system at 20% of dsp power

and on my 27 dsp system i can get 10 notes poly with 26% of dsp power

pianos are very easy as they dont use multi filters or envelopes

or lots of modulation inputs

i reackon i can get a 18 sample multisample piano instrument with 10 note poly with about 40-60 % of dsp resources

ill be sending it to jimmyv and dante for beta testing before i release to forum

I really appreciate your input on this,- but 10 voice poly is by far not enough for real piano playing, considering normal usage of sustain/legato and sostenuto pedals,- and what´s up w/ release samples, string resonance samples if the damper is released and half pedalling ?

Bud