PAE patch XP Professional

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fraz
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PAE patch XP Professional

Post by fraz »

Hi,

Got XP working on modern boards which is great - SATA / AHCI etc......but need a PAE patch that is simple-ish to implement - And with good instructions too !

Tried one today but it froze the USB totally - so is similar to a crash - There are one or two which are one click installable / un-installable but I've not found download links.

There is another which uses these files - Someone may recognize the them - But no download has yet been found - though implementation seems straightforward.

Copy hal64g.dll and ntkl64g.exe to C:/windows/system32/

Some of the members here may know as it is of interest with x86 in mind with Xite & PCI cards - Thanks
fraz
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Re: PAE patch XP Professional

Post by fraz »

OK I found something at long last so I'll share it here. Below is a link to a PAE patch for XP and ++ other OS - It's for 128 GB - I've just done this on a one click install / un-install - It is however only showing as 64 GB! - haha - Only 64 GB! not the 128 GB so I took a look in system32 folder and the .dll is only for 64 GB whilst the Kernel.exe is for 128 GB.

If someone can offer explanations etc....that' d be great but I'm not griping over this as the older apps probably won't use this amount anyway and if I was on Z97 there is a max of 32 GB anyway.

A result which is good! - XP Pro on X99 ! - But the performance numbers for the processor do take a little hit in XP compared to Windows 7 or later.

FWIW Vista Ultimate 32 does have PAE enabled straight off and gets the full 128 GB without any patch of any kind!!!

I'll try the Windows 7 with this patch I used for XP and see what happens - So any users here on 32 bit that want PAE - Well this may work - OK Thanks

https://retrosystemsrevival.blogspot.co ... patch.html
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valis
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Re: PAE patch XP Professional

Post by valis »

Win7 is likely your best bet. It's the closest to Xp32 from any modern OS (Vista dropped things and they 'walked back' some of those API changes later which means that Vista did get 'patched' but Win7 came from the get-go with the legacy cruft bolted back in).

Ie, you can disable the DWM (Aero) and sidestep the problems many have when the GPU is handling your DAW's calls. Newer DAWs will of course RELY on the GPU, so the mileage may vary depending on your version!
fraz
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Re: PAE patch XP Professional

Post by fraz »

Hi,

I've got an image of Windows 7 to try out - ready to go with most updates on ! -

With this stuff I'm not that good at it! - But, I've read that IGP (Intel HD 4000__sandy_)___onwards had problems with grpahics__and PAE.

Do discreet GPU's have problems with PAE?

I'll look up Aero (from memory it is a theme)_any other info. thanks ?

OK, DWM = desktop windows manager - would this need disabling before installing the PAE patch? - If problems occur why do they occur and how etc....?
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valis
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Re: PAE patch XP Professional

Post by valis »

I am not familiar with the issues you're referring to, but IGP uses system RAM for its local memory store whereas discreet GPU's have an onboard memory store. That local store still has a 'memory hole' that's mapped to your system so you can move data around, but it's likely that the IGP doesn't play well with the PAE addressing scheme as modern IGP's came along after the fact. PAE was originally intended to give 32bit servers access to more memory, not for consumer laptop & low end office use (which is what the IGP started off for).

Aero is what the GPU accelerated desktop is called in Win7, it's fairly common for older DAWs (Live 5-8, Cubase SX3 & v5 etc) to either set a compatibility mode that turns off desktop compositing for that app or to disable the desktop compositing manager (DWM) entirely so that the GPU doesn't interfere with the system. I am NOT recommending this, it's just a known fact that when people migrated from Xp32 to Win7 this was necessary for some, and since you seem to be facing that migration it might be relevant to you.

And no, DWM shouldn't in any way be related to your PAE patch. I am not up to speed on PAE for modern systems so can't help much more here, sorry.
fraz
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Re: PAE patch XP Professional

Post by fraz »

ok I found this Microsoft article about all of the above

https://docs.microsoft.com/en-gb/window ... dfrom=MSDN

Regarding PAE what problems will people run into when using PAE? and what are the best fixes?
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Re: PAE patch XP Professional

Post by fraz »

valis wrote: Thu Apr 23, 2020 11:56 pm Win7 is likely your best bet. It's the closest to Xp32 from any modern OS (Vista dropped things and they 'walked back' some of those API changes later which means that Vista did get 'patched' but Win7 came from the get-go with the legacy cruft bolted back in).

Ie, you can disable the DWM (Aero) and sidestep the problems many have when the GPU is handling your DAW's calls. Newer DAWs will of course RELY on the GPU, so the mileage may vary depending on your version!
OK, so Win 7 would be good with IGP then? - HD4000 (sandy)__HD4600_Haswell_? - and of course discreet GPU_such as Nvidia GT710 and others as well.

Regarding DAW - Cubase 8.5 was the final version to support 32 bit - Would this go well with PAE? __then there is the older Cubase 6.5 + the older "other" DAW's some of which maybe Live 7/8/9 + FL + no point mentioning all of them but it's just important to have a PAE base covered that works and is backed up then experimenting with how to use it best -
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valis
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Re: PAE patch XP Professional

Post by valis »

Why are you so focused on PAE? Do you need STS samplers?
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Re: PAE patch XP Professional

Post by nebelfuerst »

I use Win7/32 with PAE, but STS don't work in V7. ( KGParam3.VXD missing)
With 5.1 the did work on the same machine (as far as I remember).

Should they work with V7 under XP ?
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fraz
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Re: PAE patch XP Professional

Post by fraz »

valis wrote: Fri Apr 24, 2020 7:15 am Why are you so focused on PAE? Do you need STS samplers?
I'm just trying to get the best out of PAE - :) - I've got x64 as well so either can be used - If there are too many problems I'll find out - STS can be used without PAE
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valis
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Re: PAE patch XP Professional

Post by valis »

Right I just meant it’s clear the machine has a lot of RAM and you’re trying to use it in a 32bit OS. Was wondering what was holding you back from a 64bit memory space...
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Re: PAE patch XP Professional

Post by fraz »

valis wrote: Fri Apr 24, 2020 7:15 pm Right I just meant it’s clear the machine has a lot of RAM and you’re trying to use it in a 32bit OS. Was wondering what was holding you back from a 64bit memory space...
Nothing is holding me back from using 64 bit OS - I've done some XP installs on modern boards for both 32 bit and 64 bit following a tutorial - I'm very happy with the results and can use these on modern boards and by modern I mean 2013 onwards!

I wanted to see if I could get PAE to work on 32 bit and have done so as I found a patch that will do up to 128 GB which in Windows 7 shows 125 GB but in XP / Server 2003 only 64 GB is shown - But only 64 GB is quite funny as it's a lot of RAM.
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valis
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Re: PAE patch XP Professional

Post by valis »

Right but that is just the address space, which is virtual. It was my presumption the reason you care about PAE is so you can have more than 2GB for apps (without PAE you get 2GB for apps, 1GB for OS for a max of 3.2GB when 4GB is installed.) The problem here is that it gives you a 64bit memory space with 32bit binaries, and so you'll need drivers that specifically support this. Many drivers to NOT, which is why Xp32 (and Vista) had PAE limited still to 3.3GB of address space, and so you either have to run WIndows Server or an older version of XP32 before the hard limit was placed---or as you're doing find altered versions where the HAL is not limited.

Btw I have 2 machines with 64GB of RAM and one with 128GB, and I have actually used PAE (along with changing the setting in the BIOS!!) for my 2001 era dual Xeons to access more ram when working in 3D Applications and the like (that machine had 6GB in an era when people were running 256-512MB). Never needed that for audio...

http://forums.techarena.in/tips-tweaks/979407.htm
And 32-bit client versions of Windows Vista (and also Windows XP) will never support more than a 4GB address spaces, even with PAE enabled, according to another MSDN Library article. Thus, 4 GB physical RAM memory limit on 32-bit Windows Vista is an artificial software based lock placed by Windows Vista operating system to limit the availability of the portion of memory larger than 4 gigabytes in a system with motherboard that support more than 4GB worth of physical address space.

Thus, many users disappointed and baffled that even though after ‘enabling’ PAE support in 32-bit (x86) Windows Vista (which in actuality is not necessary), they still cannot see full 4GB or more (most system showing only around 3.5 or 3.25 GB of memory due to some memory address space been mapped to use as reserve for system peripherals) of physical memory or RAM modules installed, although Windows Vista SP1 can correctly display the amount of installed memory (not memory available to use) up to 4GB in size.

Currently, the only known method to enable support for physical memory bigger than 4GB in size in Windows Vista 32-bit version is using the hack to replace the limitation files with copy from 32-bit Windows Server 2008, which supports and can see more than 4 GB memory. However, user using the hack has to deal with some consequences especially product activation issue, unless you have license or genuine product key for Windows Server 2008.

http://www.dansdata.com/askdan00015.htm
PAE\'s no good to the everyday 3Gb-problem-afflicted user, though, for two reasons.

First, it presents 64-bit addresses to drivers, and thus causes exactly the same compatibility problems as a proper 64-bit operating system. Except worse, because now you need PAE-aware drivers for 32-bit Windows, instead of plain 64-bit drivers for a 64-bit OS.

From a normal user\'s point of view, PAE gives you the incompatibility of a 64-bit operating system when you\'re still running a 32-bit OS.

For this reason, Microsoft changed the behaviour of the /PAE option in almost all versions of WinXP as of Service Pack 2. They fixed the endless driver problems by, essentially, making /PAE in XP not do anything to addressing. All versions of WinXP except for the x64 Edition now have a hard 4Gb addressing limit, no matter what hardware you use them on and what configuration you choose. All PAE does in those versions of Windows is activate NoExecute support, which, once again, you probably don\'t want.
This isn\'t a big problem, of course, since XP is not meant to be a server operating system. But it\'s still mystifying to people who try the /PAE flag and can\'t figure out why it doesn\'t work.

Oh, and just in case you for some reason still wanted to try PAE: It eats CPU time, too.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Physical_Address_Extension#Windows
However, desktop versions of Windows (Windows XP, Windows Vista) limit physical address space to 4 GB for driver compatibility reasons.
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Re: PAE patch XP Professional

Post by dawman »

Val if you were running a GSIF Drivers that 64GB would have been awesome.
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valis
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Re: PAE patch XP Professional

Post by valis »

That's implicit, and think I mentioned large sample libraries somewhere. But I certainly agree and remember those days. :)
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