ADA8200

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FrancisHarmany
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ADA8200

Post by FrancisHarmany »

Hi everyone! Hope you're well and healthy! Time to start making some music again.

I am going to try a new approach. More external sequencers!

Just ordered an Arturia DrumBrute! The KeyStep Pro will be next. I. CANT. WAIT. Why I ever stopped is beyond me. I am really stoked and excited :D

OK! SO. I will use the ADA8200 to route my DrumBrute into XITE!


My question:


Can I route modulation signals from XITE -> ADA8200 -> External modular with inputs ? Like say the Behringer Crave ?

Also how about routing KeyStep PRO CV/Gate output -> ADA8200 -> Xite -> Scope Modulars ?

borg
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Re: ADA8200

Post by borg »

the Behringer ADDA doesn't do CV. you'd be better off looking at Expert sleepers modules or Motu.
also SpaceF has been doing lots of new stuff with his own take on 'CV' which is not really CV but something alike.
andy
the lunatics are in the hall

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jpo_midigods
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Re: ADA8200

Post by jpo_midigods »

Scope does real dsp and real midi, but im afraid it cant do real voltage measured in volts (bad, bad Scope), only emulate CV by converting voltage values to audio or midi data, then decode data and use it.

So as you can not hear (with ears) any digital sound if its not converted to analog,
you can not have CV on digital world, only something alike.
"MIDI is the languaje of Gods" (anon)

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at0m
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Re: ADA8200

Post by at0m »

Hey welcome back francis!! You'll find you'll be going again in no time - talking from experience :)

jpo_midigods: actually, scope modular does CV just fine, flexor even at audio rate throughout. have you tried https://github.com/bcmodular/scopesync/ for example? that is CV.

the issue is with most convertors not doing DC voltages, since for common audio use that's static noise anyway. but as borg suggests, Expert Sleepers for example have DC-coupled converters
more has been done with less
https://soundcloud.com/at0m-studio

dawman
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Re: ADA8200

Post by dawman »

Black Lion Audio Includes DC Coupling on the Behringers as part of their audio upgrade package.
Your 250 dollar unit sounds like a much more expensive model now.
The PSUs are really turds though.

But that’s an option if your close to Chicago.

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Bud Weiser
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Re: ADA8200

Post by Bud Weiser »

RME !

Even the old converters like ADI-8 Pro are DC-coupled and handle CV.

:)

Bud

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Bud Weiser
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Re: ADA8200

Post by Bud Weiser »

dawman wrote:
Thu May 21, 2020 9:49 am

The PSUs are really turds though.
That´s why I never bought a Behringer converter.

About 200 bucks for the converter and 250 for the mods is about 450 and leaves you w/ that crappy PSU which is well known as he achilles heel of the device.
Replace that too for additional costs ...

It´s much easier buying a used and good condition RME.
You won´t need the more expensive 96KHz variants.
44.1/48KHz is enough.
About 400 bucks I guess.

:)

Bud

dawman
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Re: ADA8200

Post by dawman »

Totally agree.
Basically you buy Chinese junk, then add Japanese, Taiwanese, European and American components.
Still cheaper than buying German or American, but at the end of the day my A16U is 17 years old, and made me a fortune.

I have no problem just buying the right shit the first time and being happy.
I always liked the guys who had expensive drugs. 300 for an 8th was fine.
200 for an 8 ball of crap means you end up buying 2 of them.

Ah the lessons of life....

dawman
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Re: ADA8200

Post by dawman »

Hey Francis good to hear from you.

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Bud Weiser
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Re: ADA8200

Post by Bud Weiser »

dawman wrote:
Thu May 21, 2020 3:52 pm
Totally agree.
...
I always liked the guys who had expensive drugs. 300 for an 8th was fine.
200 for an 8 ball of crap means you end up buying 2 of them.

Ah the lessons of life....
:lol: :lol: :lol:

Bud

borg
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Re: ADA8200

Post by borg »

or, you can make your own cables and use your ac coupled interface, haven't read enough to know wether or not the expert sleepers plugin is really necessary.
https://www.expert-sleepers.co.uk/siwaacencoder.html
andy
the lunatics are in the hall

dawman
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Re: ADA8200

Post by dawman »

Maybe so, but still, Expert Sleepers soft/hardware is really well liked, and Silentway Suite into Scopes Modules is really beneficial.
Wish I could have time to concentrate on that old way of playing again, really good for EDM.

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spacef
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Re: ADA8200

Post by spacef »

the issue is not scope which can send signal that are CV compatible (through a converter of DC coupled audio).

The issue is calibration of different converter / oscillators/ gear etc.

For example, a DC coupled audio interface (or a eurorack DC coupled mixing module) does not mean it is 1V/Oct: will not translate signals the same as a proper digital to CV board made for 1V/Oct. However, Calibration is mainly required only for pitch control (where a digital C note is translated as a C note in the 1V/Oct range). Fo rfilters or unpitched signals, you generally don't need 1V/Oct.

For example, you do not need any digital-to-CV converter to use scope modulators with A MS20 filter or envelope triggers, as this is taken care of by the MS20 "ESP" section. However, you will be very frustrated if you use this signal to control the MS20 pitch. The signal will modulate the pitch, but you will get nowehere in terms of pitch control. So DC coupled audio is not the same as 1V/Oct or (or 1 Hz/V in the case of the MS20) in terms of range/calibration.

A keyboard outputs 1V/oct, an oscillator pitch needs 1V/Oct, an LFO does not need that, it uses audio range.

So it is more about your own requirements and the type of gear you need..
Also, DSP to CV is not the same as CV-to-DSP and I still need to find out if it is same or different than CV-to-Audio.
You could use eurorack modules if you have that (mixing/multiples that can do audio or CV), or other CV-to-audio converters (I think expert sleeper have that).

Again it is only for pitch. If I want to use a eurorack oscillator with LFO functions, I Just need to plug it as an audio signal and it works directly, and it will modulate anything. Good enough for filters or triggers. Not interesting for pitch.

On the SpaceF front, I would like to add the dsp-to-DCoupled audio but I need to do it in a proper eurorack mixing module, which is not available right now (and are all mixing modules reliable ie will output exactly 0dB attenuation at max position (and not -0.0001 dB for example) ? not sure at all - and this would make a difference in the digital world). However, if it is the same as with the Korg MS20, this is totally useless in terms of pitch control. And it is expensive (more than 50 euros for a mix module that give you 1 output = 400 euros for 8 outputs!!!). The Expert Sleeper ES-3 is really the best in terms of price per output (it is around 200€ for 8 CV outputs). Once you have that, you don't need anything else, except a second ES-3. (The ES-3 is adat to CV, there is another model that has CV-to-adat/audio).

Also, generally the digital signals are calibrated for native software, so to use inside Scope you need +/- 12 dB to get the same between dsp and Native: for example: KrOn DSP Pitch table can control Native Modular Racks (Voltage, VCVV...) once you put the master out to the max, ie +12dB). The pitch of native devices is Scope pitch+12dB.

For the Arturia stuff, i don't think they are limited to CV and you can use them with midi. So you don't need anything to start working with them. Ok, midi and CV is really a different feeling and you will never acheive with midi all that you can do with CV. But also, the receiving devices must be adapted to working with CV signals, which is generally not the case with software (for example, VSTi cannot have extra inputs for modulations, they can only have 1 midi input, unless they are categorized as effects (effect can have a sidechain input as well as midi), which makes them more cumbersome to use. So you would need to use Midi CC, which is unprecise.
I have the keystep "not pro", and the sequencer sucks in terms of functionalities and playability. I tried to use it, but it is unuseable. The demos of the beatstep pro look much better, but I don't have any experience with that. In all case, you will have some work, and there is not device or module that will translate what you have in mind without a little bit of involvment on your part. Youtube videos are sexy, but for many video makers, it is business for more views and free gear.

Various random modes are coming to KrOn very soon :-) the only hardware i would add is something like an ableton controller and learn ableton (and buy it because i don't have it lol). As said above, for modulators *from* hardware, it depends on the type of modulator and there is no general rule. It depends on the maker of each hardware. There are a couple of KrOn users who use Eurorack modulators the other way around. You must ask them because I am not going that way (too expensive for me :-) ) .
Last edited by spacef on Wed May 27, 2020 1:53 am, edited 4 times in total.
plug-ins for scope
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spacef
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Re: ADA8200

Post by spacef »

and in the CV-to-Audio direction, you will need to deal with latency of your hardware based modulations converted into ASIO signals (unless you modulate/trigger stuff in scope in real time).
In the Audio-to-CV direction (Scope to CV) you still need to delay a few tracks in your DAW , such as rythms etc but is more easily manageable, or record your modulators as audio tracks so latency is the same everywhere.
plug-ins for scope
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GordonGekko
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Re: ADA8200

Post by GordonGekko »

Easy now spacef, he said he wanted to get back at music, not string theory
kidding kidding
always
interesting stuff you posted
if only I could understand half of it :oops:
hey welcome back Francis
you still up there in Canada ?

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valis
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Re: ADA8200

Post by valis »

He’s saying you have to adapt (scale) the voltage from the DA to fit the standard being used in the outboard modular. Modular users should know this as you have to adapt CV standards between a few classic modular implementations.

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spacef
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Re: ADA8200

Post by spacef »

there is not much to understand:
- don't rush purchases, take the time to learn and use what you have, and progress slowly when needs appear rather than investing for things that don't exist yet :-) I have the ADA8200 and it is not useable directly with CV. you will need a converter to convert into audio, or to convert audio/ADAT to CV, and that converter may have to be be compatible with 1V/Oct format if you want to have pitch control (frequency of the oscillators).
- also, the CV from the arturia gear will be comptaible with CV hardware, but you will need "stuff" to convert cv into digital, and that "stuff" will depend on many other things and has a cost so it is better not to rush into overthinking before you even started and know well what does what in your equipment (because it depends on the gear you have / want) .
- FrancisHarmany is a good friend , long time no see - sorry for this technical welcome back (so rude of me) :-)
plug-ins for scope
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