Would I need Modular IV to build devices with the SDK?

Scope device files created using the Scope SDK

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summer
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Would I need Modular IV to build devices with the SDK?

Post by summer » Wed Mar 27, 2019 7:23 am

Sorry if this is the wrong forum for the question.

I find myself always using the same very simple modular setups and would like to wrap them up in a complete package with a UI.

If I buy the SDK would I need to buy Modular IV too? Can modular devices even be wrapped into a custom device?

Thanks for any insight

//Summer

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Spielraum
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Re: Would I need Modular IV to build devices with the SDK?

Post by Spielraum » Wed Mar 27, 2019 3:44 pm

durchaus machbar, modIV key needed,
but see also bcm CLM patch loader >> packed module but leave open source...
https://bcmodular-guide.000webhostapp.c ... r/CLM.html
|̲̅̅●̲̅̅|̲̅̅=̲̅̅|̲̅̅●̲̅̅] Lange Welle ~ Mittelwelle ~ Kurze Welle ~ Ultra Kurze Welle

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faxinadu
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Re: Would I need Modular IV to build devices with the SDK?

Post by faxinadu » Wed Mar 27, 2019 11:44 pm

- To build modular modules you need an empty modular module SDK template. This does not come with SDK.
- Modular IV and SDK have no direct relation, you do not need to buy modular iv in order to run the SDK.
Scope, Android, Web, PC Plugins and Sounds:
http://www.oceanswift.net
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https://faxinadu.bandcamp.com/

summer
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Re: Would I need Modular IV to build devices with the SDK?

Post by summer » Thu Mar 28, 2019 3:34 am

@Spielraum thanks, that looks interesting.
@faxinadu if devices are not build with Modular modules then is there any info on how to build devices with the SDK? I have a hard time finding anything relevant.

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astroman
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Re: Would I need Modular IV to build devices with the SDK?

Post by astroman » Thu Mar 28, 2019 9:35 am

Maybe this makes it a bit easier to understand: the whole Scope environment is simply a big modular.
Everything is built the same way.
What you see on screen is the same as what you'd see in SDK, except that in SDK there are more layers and connections which are hidden during regular use (as they aren't needed for 'runtime' and would take a lot of space).

SDK isn't easy, but by far the easiest aproach to high quality digital audio programming - that's a matter of fact.
If you get along building patches with Modular, you'll get along with SDK relatively easy.

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Re: Would I need Modular IV to build devices with the SDK?

Post by summer » Thu Mar 28, 2019 9:50 am

@astroman thanks for the info. So with the SDK you build devices using modules (like in Modular IV) but that are specific to the SDK?

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astroman
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Re: Would I need Modular IV to build devices with the SDK?

Post by astroman » Thu Mar 28, 2019 12:19 pm

yes, a lot of the logic structure of the device is handled in a modular way, but it looks like the Scope routing window.
Modular modules have their own graphic signature image on top, similiar to the (say) mixer surface on top of the mixer rectangle in routing window.
That rectangle could be opened (by the developer) in SDK and then would show the internal structure just like your routing window displays your project's architecture - it's the same 'visual language'.
The basic items of Scope (DSP and math functions) are called atoms and 'contain' the respective processing code.

You can get an idea of what's available if you look at a listing of your dsp-folder (scope-directory\app\dsp).
Some items have a .nfo extension and provide information about the item (and can be opened with a text editor).
The files with .dsp extensions contain the actual processing instructions and can't be opened.
That's just a hint for curiosity sake - you don't get much sense out of it, except to see that A LOT is provided by Sonic Core.
It takes YEARS to write such code in whatever language one is familiar with ;)

But it's not all plain graphical construction, there's also a scripting system included (with which I'm not familiar)

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faxinadu
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Re: Would I need Modular IV to build devices with the SDK?

Post by faxinadu » Thu Mar 28, 2019 12:52 pm

there is no scripting system included mate, at least not vanilla sdk offered to costumers
Scope, Android, Web, PC Plugins and Sounds:
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astroman
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Re: Would I need Modular IV to build devices with the SDK?

Post by astroman » Thu Mar 28, 2019 4:30 pm

thanks for clearing this up :)

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Re: Would I need Modular IV to build devices with the SDK?

Post by summer » Fri Mar 29, 2019 4:51 am

@astroman thanks for clearing that up! I feel like some basic information about what I would be getting into is very hard to come by. Screen shots let alone videos are basically non-existent. As far as I can see there is also no documentation for the SDK v.7?

I could probably be able to find my way around Atoms if it's similar using Modular but I'd have no idea on how to hook up params to the UI or use custom graphics.

My guess is I'll have to expect a steep learning curve aided mostly by trial and error.

How fast is the iteration process? Can I save a device and use it right away or do I have to switch between opening/closing the SDK and the Scope system?

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astroman
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Re: Would I need Modular IV to build devices with the SDK?

Post by astroman » Fri Mar 29, 2019 6:30 am

there is a learning curve of course, as digital audio is a complex domain.
But it's the most flat curve you'll find - regardless where you look.

If you go the classic way and get an Analog Devices Sharc Prototyping board, you'll need their Visual DSP SDK.
Then write DSP Assembler (possibly cloaked by some C layer, I dunno) and a user interface in Visual Studio.
All by yourself THAT would be a steep thing ;)
Sonic Core provides all the required math and some prototype items with a GUI and control lines already in place.
You just route your device's logic with those components in the familiar Scope graphical mode.
Parameters and variables will always have their respective connection and entry places on a screen layer.
You can guess most of that by existing examples (some are really sophisticated).

Of course you'll have to get familiar with the paradigm and read about it, but it's not required to have a detailed instruction specifically for SDK 7. If you understand a topic in the older docs, you'll recognize it even if parts have been changed or improved.
SDK has never been greatly explained, as it adressed users with some technical and/or software skills.
There will be trial and error, but that's a common experience with every developement system, be it XCode or Visual Studio.

SDK may be a bit too much effort just for better 'bundling' a couple of modular devices on screen, but you may find ways to improve your setup significantly for a fair amount.
You can run your devices in SDK with live audio streams, but it comes with less 'studio' content than the regular Scope... for obvious reasons.
(I don't have SDK myself, as I lack all DSP math skills, but it's one of my favourite pieces of software of all times - from a technical point if view it's a milestone in software engineering)
To be precise: Scope and SDK are two sides of the very same coin - just with a diffent focus of application.

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Re: Would I need Modular IV to build devices with the SDK?

Post by summer » Fri Mar 29, 2019 6:56 am

Thanks for the reply. I get what you're saying. I'm a programmer by trade but know next to nothing about dsp and signal processing - and to be honest I probably would find it very dry and tedious. I'm not saying I think the SDK is bad or anything - just trying to evaluate wether it's actually worth my time or if I should just continue using my modular devices. It's a convenience thing and just for myself anyway :)

I do think I'll give it a shot though. Always fun to learn new things in any case.

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faxinadu
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Re: Would I need Modular IV to build devices with the SDK?

Post by faxinadu » Fri Mar 29, 2019 7:50 am

just to spam something relevant:

This guy here helps A LOT, and I say this as I am my own biggest costumer with this pack. A device that would take me weeks can take me now hours just with all the encapsulated and ready to go things in there.

https://oceanswift.net/sdk-module-pack/
Scope, Android, Web, PC Plugins and Sounds:
http://www.oceanswift.net
Music
https://faxinadu.bandcamp.com/

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astroman
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Re: Would I need Modular IV to build devices with the SDK?

Post by astroman » Fri Mar 29, 2019 11:22 am

nice one, Faxi 8)
I recall John Bowen's Python Pro Synth, which turned a modular patch (Python) into a standalone device.
It's not an exact remake, because an effect section was added and integrated into the synth feedback.
A significant extension, which shows how SDK can be used to improve an already great basic concept.

summer
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Re: Would I need Modular IV to build devices with the SDK?

Post by summer » Sat Mar 30, 2019 8:36 am

@faxinadu thanks for the tip. Your site did indeed come up a few times during my research so I have checked out most of your stuff. I'll probably play around with the standard atoms before I can evaluate it.

You have some nice youtube vids and thanks for those as well.

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roy thinnes
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Re: Would I need Modular IV to build devices with the SDK?

Post by roy thinnes » Sat Mar 30, 2019 3:44 pm

Of course it depends on the complexity of the circuit you want to build but I dare say that developing devices with Sdk isn't rocket science at all.
There are templates for Synths, Effects and Insert Fx as well as dozens of modules with ready built panels which you can copy for your own device.

What made me confused at the beginning was particularly one thing: preset handling.
There was a doc by Shroomz which helped me out back then (maybe someone has a link).

But all in all this brilliant software (I'm talking about Sdk 4.0 which I've used for 99.9 % of my projects) always had been a joy to work with.

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