MPA: A whole new Chapter for SCOPE and you are invited

Planet Z Announcements

Moderators: valis, garyb

inDSP Frank
Creamware Founder
Posts: 77
Joined: Fri Jun 13, 2003 4:00 pm
Contact:

MPA: A whole new Chapter for SCOPE and you are invited

Post by inDSP Frank » Sun Mar 04, 2018 8:39 am

Hello dear SCOPE Users,

It has been a few years since I've been to this forum last. I am impressed to see just how alive the SCOPE community still is in 2018 - nearing its 20th anniversary: March 11-15, 1998 at Musikmesse Frankfurt was when my team and me introduced the SCOPE. Thanks to you and SC, SCOPE by now must be one of the longest running technology tools in the industry!

For those of you not so interested in history, please skip forward to the =========================> mark :)

As some of you will know, it was me who started this CreamWare thing in 1992. With the tripleDAT we were the first to implement a "native processing" digital audio workstation on the PC - based on the first SPDIF digital audio interface card for the PC. We were the first to do completely "non-destructive editing" and "realtime mixing" of multiple tracks in 1994 and we also were the first to show "realtime plugins" in 1995. At Musikmesse 1995 the very first time people were stunned to see the sweeping of a (natively processed) EQ on screen while hearing the result immediately as if it was hardware... this was at a time when audio in Cubase, Logic and Cakewalk still was absent or sucked big, and a few years before Steinberg introduced their VST effects API. In our early years, we at CreamWare were the ones pushing the limits and setting the standards of "CPU native" - did you actually know that?

Few people understood why I pulled out of the DAW business. When you achieve something as major as the tripleDAT then people expect you to keep doing that same thing on and on and further and further. True, most companies stick to that one thing they started with. Not me. When tripleDAT was kind of done and a new generation system was due I wanted to move on. It was clear that Steinberg and Emagic would eventually learn how to do audio and I absolutely did not want to get involved in the raging war of the MIDI sequencer "giants". Making the next generation tripleDAT a MIDI sequencer and joining those "winner takes it all" religious battles between Sven and Manfred had sub-zero appeal to me.

But I also expressly did NOT share the vision that the future of audio was to be "native" as in "software only". I always wanted to take software into the "real world" and innovate with software where it mattered to me: outdoors, with the band, in clubs, where music was happening. Also I was set to build a whole platform, not just one new product. The logical step was SCOPE with its zero latency and its independency from the host CPU (at least for processing). To most people, moving from "native plugin" market leadership to DSP based cards seemed like a crazy idea and the utterly wrong direction. Not to me. At a time where many people were easily lured to believe that a "DSP free zone" was a desirable goal and a grand idea to follow.... Anyone of you still remembering that awful Steinberg campaign?

So we pulled thru on the SCOPE. We did it to scale a PC and add DSP to whatever the CPU could accomplish. We did it to lose that deadly latency. We did it to gain reliability and have the best of both worlds. The DSP being able to tie in live signals and other equipment. As in: plurality, integrating all there is. But why am I telling this YOU on PlanetZ ;) Unfortunately, at that time, people were just not interested in such concepts. Most wanted ONLY native and thought it (or the piracy) would make them free (as in: afford with no pay). A dubious divisive ideology and one we at CreamWare had already far outgrown by then.

You may be surprised to hear that the inherent dependency of SCOPE on a PC for the control portion still was a painful fact to me. I loved the PC, but I loved the idea even more to not always be dependent on it. With native systems I just felt claustrophobic. I really wanted software to escape the confinement of the computer. Unfortunately, sufficiently high-performance embedded systems did not quite exist back then. So it was really hard to do the Noah. With increasingly aging first-generation SHARCs not only doing audio but also all system management... The result was not even a fraction of where I wanted to go. Adding the failure of our plan to go public at the "Neuer Markt" stock market (which was all a stupid idea in the first place, and of course it too was my idea) the Noah was too little too late - still at a time where the big pendulum swung further towards software. 15 years after the Noah the pendulum has long made its way back into hardware space and many people recognize the Noah as a fine prototype of yet another new category: the first modelling synth plugin enabled rack hardware.

Anyway... I had moved to India already in 2004 building a new little company and development team there - my plans were bigger than what I was able to afford to do in Europe. We did much of the ASB box software in India (with Jürgen doing most of the hardware in Germany) and I started to service other manufacturers too. When the second CreamWare effort sadly folded in early 2007 I was happy to see that Holger and Jürgen wanted to continue developing the SCOPE and working with the community. I was only interested in certain technology, but not in maintaining the SCOPE system itself. Again some people did not understand my move. But I was just too aware of the conceptual shortcomings of the SCOPE and I knew the successor was architected very differently. Again I had already moved on, this time into networked systems...

Now it is time to reveal which goals I was heading for. It took a whole while. For me to fully develop that sizable vision - try out new concepts, and their implementations. It took about the same time for the big pendulum to finally move into the quadrant where I have been waiting and hoping for the pendulum to catch me. I think some time recently it did. Just like with the tripleDAT I feel today I am "on time" and not a decade or two too early. At least so I hope! Soon the market will tell me. Timing is everything. Ten years back the market would never have been able to grasp these concepts. Today I think the situation is different - and I'm ready to roll out what is my next generation system. Bright people will now be ready to become early adopters. And you are invited to join.

I know that you, the SCOPE community, have an extraordinary attention span. While The Donald dropped out already after the initial 140 chars of this message, you will still be reading on... even after hearing such longish unsolicited story :) Thank you for your time. I wanted you to give you some first-hand perspectives and insights such that you can recognize the conceptual continuity in what happened so far and what is up ahead. Now comes the beef.

=========================>

My team and me will be launching a major new platform soon. It's called the MPA Platform and soon you'll know what these MPA letters stand for (any guesses? ;) - They spell an outright revolution. An idea I was developing for over 10 years now, maybe the biggest thing I ever did.

The MPA Platform is not centralized in one PC like SCOPE is. The MPA Platform is network distributed. There is no center. Just like with people collaborating in an agile group, everyone has his/her role and responsibility - but there is no central decision maker (unless you expressly want to have one). Just like the internet (the cloud) has no center. Which is a scalable concept. Let me spell this out: s-c-a-l-a-b-l-e. As in: tiny start buys you into the system and there are no (relevant) limits for your growth. The MPA Platform is the first truly network / cloud / LAN "distributed" professional audio system on the planet. It is vastly different from any product you have seen so far: application and hardware are entirely separated and may always run in different places. To MPA, hardware is a mere resource. The exact same software components run embedded, on your laptop, on your tablet or elsewhere. Need a bigger system? Just add resources to your network. Need more functionality? Add a piece of software on some device of your choice. It works brilliantly. It is elegant. It is a new way to designing whole audio systems. That's right: While in SCOPE you were (with the SDK) able to design your own plugins (via SDK) and routings (via SFP), the MPA Platform actually allows you to build whole distributed audio systems out of hardware and software modules. You can literally plug together the entire hardware infrastructure for entire venues like in band, studio, live sound, broadcast and installed audio use cases. And it is so simple, absolutely everyone can do it.

Will the MPA Platform now eat the SCOPE? Of course not! You will all be sticking to SCOPE, and me too. After all, SCOPE is my brain child and much of it still is just fabulous - so my goal was to be "SCOPE inclusive". You will not be surprised I'm using SCOPE in the development of the DSP portion of the MPA Platform!

I am here today to invite you to open a new chapter for SCOPE, together. Not just some new lease on life but a grand possibility to gain major new attention and popularity. Fact is that the MPA Platform is so vastly different from SCOPE that the systems do not compete. Actually they are highly synergetic as both systems can benefit from developments of the other system. Look at MPA like an extension of the SCOPE. This means significant new business opportunities for SC which I presume will be recognized.

SC and me are sharing the same rights to the SCOPE platform as per pre-XITE status. However, XITE and SCOPE 5/6/7 is SC's branch and not mine. I will still have to speak to Holger about bridging his branch of the system into MPA - it can not be that XITE users are left behind. We now have to join forces and overcome the schism. After all this time we can not let you boys down. And SC should be selling a whole lot more XITEs in the future.

It is no coincidence that I am first outing my MPA Platform here with you. You will find absolutely nothing anywhere else on the internet - as of yet. Our campaign is scheduled to go online only in April. I want to invite you to participate in the development and commissioning of the systems. We can well use your help. As you will see, MPA is a widely open and welcoming system. It encourages participation like no other pro audio product ever before. And it will be worthwhile - enabling you to do things you will not deem possible today. Oh, and please bring your Arduino if you like! :)

Apologies if I can not actually present you the system itself today. We are still several weeks away from that point. However, there are a couple of things I can reveal already and a few topics I would like to discuss with you. I will be starting a few new topics here in the General Discussion board over the next days, asking for your thoughts.

How far advanced are we with this whole MPA thing? We have reached very far. Yet it is only the very beginning as it still has to unfold in the market and grow from there. Your community has demonstrated legendary patience in the past. Please afford just a little more for me, the puzzle will soon come together for you.

Hard to describe just how much I am looking forward to share all of these news with you and see your participation and feedback. MPA will be a game changer. For SCOPY people like us - absolutely! And there'll be many more like us, as we'll find. But we may even be writing some new rules for the entire industry. Please help and let's make PlanetZ the place where it all started.

With kind regards, from Siegburg, Germany

Frank Hund
March 4 2018

User avatar
yayajohn
Posts: 1059
Joined: Thu Mar 01, 2007 5:01 pm
Location: Everywhere....Nowhere

Re: MPA: A whole new Chapter for SCOPE and you are invited

Post by yayajohn » Sun Mar 04, 2018 10:10 am

hi Frank; Welcome back :)

This all sounds exciting, can't wait to see what you have to offer. Using existing Scope gear is a good starting point I think. I hope that you and Holger can come to an agreement to propel both of your interests for the benefit of all.

User avatar
JoPo
Posts: 2091
Joined: Wed Jun 05, 2002 4:00 pm
Location: VRRAAaaooOôOooommmh
Contact:

Re: MPA: A whole new Chapter for SCOPE and you are invited

Post by JoPo » Sun Mar 04, 2018 10:27 am

Damn ! I hope that what you're promising is at the level of what you're announcing !

As you know, the Scope community has seen several beautiful announcements in the past that were followed by not a lot ! :D
> > > > > > > > > > > > --- Musica --> here ! ---< < < < < < < < < < < <

nebelfuerst
Posts: 87
Joined: Tue Jun 23, 2009 10:55 am

Re: MPA: A whole new Chapter for SCOPE and you are invited

Post by nebelfuerst » Sun Mar 04, 2018 1:49 pm

Interesting to read about the history.
My trippledat is right beside of me and my pulsar ( which came with SW 1.3) is on the cupboard.
It's nice to read, that you also care about the Xite ( which is my latest device). :)

To be honest, I don't get the point of that scaleability.
It's clear to me, that with the right level of abstraction, you can make software scaleable to a large extend.
Usually this brings some latencies, when the resources are not linked perfectly.
I doubt, latency can be good, when routing from a dsp-card to a tablet on wifi... :o

To me, the big benefit of scope is the backward compatibility, stability and the scaleablility in terms of adding more dsps.

User avatar
Sounddesigner
Posts: 913
Joined: Sat Jun 02, 2007 11:06 pm

Re: MPA: A whole new Chapter for SCOPE and you are invited

Post by Sounddesigner » Sun Mar 04, 2018 1:59 pm

yayajohn wrote:
Sun Mar 04, 2018 10:10 am
hi Frank; Welcome back :)

This all sounds exciting, can't wait to see what you have to offer. Using existing Scope gear is a good starting point I think. I hope that you and Holger can come to an agreement to propel both of your interests for the benefit of all.
+1.. Can't wait to see what this new MPA Platform can do, especially combined with SCOPE XITE-1! It would be very nice if Holger and you Frank Hund (Indsp) did team up to "get over the schism" this tuff Market has. If you and Holger can bring this next-level to XITE-1 users like me I'm all ears and very interested. I will keep a eye on your threads here for more info! Can't wait to hear more details about this MPA revolution from someone I know is a genius!

User avatar
t_tangent
Posts: 633
Joined: Sun Dec 28, 2003 4:00 pm
Location: UK

Re: MPA: A whole new Chapter for SCOPE and you are invited

Post by t_tangent » Sun Mar 04, 2018 3:15 pm

Sounddesigner wrote:
Sun Mar 04, 2018 1:59 pm
yayajohn wrote:
Sun Mar 04, 2018 10:10 am
hi Frank; Welcome back :)

This all sounds exciting, can't wait to see what you have to offer. Using existing Scope gear is a good starting point I think. I hope that you and Holger can come to an agreement to propel both of your interests for the benefit of all.
+1.. Can't wait to see what this new MPA Platform can do, especially combined with SCOPE XITE-1! It would be very nice if Holger and you Frank Hund (Indsp) did team up to "get over the schism" this tuff Market has. If you and Holger can bring this next-level to XITE-1 users like me I'm all ears and very interested. I will keep a eye on your threads here for more info! Can't wait to hear more details about this MPA revolution from someone I know is a genius!
Yes, welcome back, and thanks for the detailed information so far. I look forward to hearing more in due course. And as a user of both Scope PCI cards and XITE, it would be very good news if you and SC can get together on this.

Liquid EDGE
Posts: 857
Joined: Sun Apr 04, 2004 4:00 pm
Location: Brighton England
Contact:

Re: MPA: A whole new Chapter for SCOPE and you are invited

Post by Liquid EDGE » Sun Mar 04, 2018 3:16 pm

Sounds interesting.
it’s great to read scope Xite is part of the future plans and that this MPA is inclusive of Xite.
Something new, but inclusive!

Cool history lesson.

Scope user here since the Luna came out!


User avatar
dante
Posts: 3786
Joined: Sat Nov 24, 2001 4:00 pm
Location: Melbourne Australia
Contact:

Re: MPA: A whole new Chapter for SCOPE and you are invited

Post by dante » Sun Mar 04, 2018 6:08 pm

Sounds like an analog of developments in database technology such as HADOOP - co-operative processing across distributed compute nodes.

User avatar
Bud Weiser
Posts: 1416
Joined: Tue Sep 14, 2010 5:29 am
Location: nowhere land

Re: MPA: A whole new Chapter for SCOPE and you are invited

Post by Bud Weiser » Sun Mar 04, 2018 7:18 pm

dawman wrote:
Sun Mar 04, 2018 4:00 pm
Ankyu
ditto !

:)
CFD,- the studio standard :wink:

User avatar
faxinadu
Posts: 1361
Joined: Wed Nov 01, 2006 3:12 am
Location: israel
Contact:

Re: MPA: A whole new Chapter for SCOPE and you are invited

Post by faxinadu » Sun Mar 04, 2018 11:15 pm

:o can't wait to hear more
Scope 3rd Party Developer
http://www.oceanswift.net
Scope, Android and PC Developer
https://www.facebook.com/purechordsrecords/
Music
https://faxinadu.bandcamp.com/

Liquid EDGE
Posts: 857
Joined: Sun Apr 04, 2004 4:00 pm
Location: Brighton England
Contact:

Re: MPA: A whole new Chapter for SCOPE and you are invited

Post by Liquid EDGE » Mon Mar 05, 2018 2:52 am

As impressive as all this sounds, me personally. I hope Sc put their energy and resources first and foremost on sorting out the bugs in scope for Xite. Once all is working how it should. Then put energy into bridging with this new thing. From what I remember that’s what annoyed users in the creamware days. Doing new stuff and not fixing past bugs.
And I thank god SC continued scope and made Xite-1, without holger scope would be dead!

User avatar
Holger Drenkelfort
Posts: 24
Joined: Mon Mar 05, 2007 7:03 pm
Contact:

Re: MPA: A whole new Chapter for SCOPE and you are invited

Post by Holger Drenkelfort » Mon Mar 05, 2018 8:11 am

What a nonsense. Frank Hund and me are not in contact since many years. I'm not involved in any of his plans and not interested in a collaboration with him or any of his companies, due to the preceding difficult relationship.

What I'm doing here is working on the SCOPE v7.1 update.

S|C Holger
Last edited by Holger Drenkelfort on Tue Mar 06, 2018 6:42 am, edited 1 time in total.

Liquid EDGE
Posts: 857
Joined: Sun Apr 04, 2004 4:00 pm
Location: Brighton England
Contact:

Re: MPA: A whole new Chapter for SCOPE and you are invited

Post by Liquid EDGE » Mon Mar 05, 2018 8:46 am

inDSP Frank wrote:
Sun Mar 04, 2018 8:43 am
Hi. In a previous thread ("MPA: A whole new Chapter for SCOPE" in Announcements) I was introducing you to some background and the actuality of an upcoming new relative to SCOPE - the MPA Platform. In further threats I am throwing some topics at you - eager to see what you say!
Good to hear holger.

For some reason when I first read this thread (that I have copied) I had a strange feeling a froydian slip came out.
Last edited by Liquid EDGE on Mon Mar 05, 2018 8:50 am, edited 1 time in total.

Ripper
Posts: 151
Joined: Tue Jan 08, 2013 5:33 am

Re: MPA: A whole new Chapter for SCOPE and you are invited

Post by Ripper » Mon Mar 05, 2018 8:50 am

Liquid EDGE wrote:
Mon Mar 05, 2018 8:46 am
inDSP Frank wrote:
Sun Mar 04, 2018 8:43 am
Hi. In a previous thread ("MPA: A whole new Chapter for SCOPE" in Announcements) I was introducing you to some background and the actuality of an upcoming new relative to SCOPE - the MPA Platform. In further threats I am throwing some topics at you - eager to see what you say!
Good to hear holger.

For some reason when I first read this thread I had a strange feeling a froydian slip came out.
I thought something similar! ;)

User avatar
ronnie
Posts: 682
Joined: Thu Jul 17, 2003 4:00 pm
Location: Varies Between 30Hz & 20KHz
Contact:

Re: MPA: A whole new Chapter for SCOPE and you are invited

Post by ronnie » Mon Mar 05, 2018 9:31 am

Hmmm.... sort of makes Frank's re-appearance here seem disingenous. Apparently no back office communication with Holger; first announcement of MPA on the Z may not be a lure but it seems to me this advertisement should be pre-approved. If it were a plug-in or Scopeware I would say welcome.

AFAIAC Holger and gary and some of our innovative brothers like Faxi and Will's Scope-Sync and those who have updated and patched their plugs have held the fort not just with technical skill, innovation and creativity but with a passionate love, loyalty and dedication for the platform and this unique very special and regal community.

Frank, I am excited about what you claim but I don't see a unique nexus with Scope or Scope users other than MPA, may be based on Scope DSP code and technique but is being platform agnostic and generic in its objective and after your extremely long absence begs the question: why us first and why do you want/need us at this juncture in your venture?
"I’ve come to the conclusion that synths are like potatoes, they’re no good raw—you’ve got to cook ‘em, and I cooked these sounds for months before I got them to the point where they sounded musical to me." Lyle Mays

User avatar
t_tangent
Posts: 633
Joined: Sun Dec 28, 2003 4:00 pm
Location: UK

Re: MPA: A whole new Chapter for SCOPE and you are invited

Post by t_tangent » Mon Mar 05, 2018 10:24 am

Holger Drenkelfort wrote:
Mon Mar 05, 2018 8:11 am
What a nonsense. Frank Hund and me are not in contact since many years. I'm not involved in any of his plans and not interested in any discussion or colaboration with him or any of his companies, due to the preceding difficult relationship.

What I'm doing here is working on the SCOPE v7.1 update.

S|C Holger
Ronnie, yes indeed it does.

And Holger, your post speaks volumes. Thanks for the clarification, and great to hear you are working on Scope 7.1
Very strange that Frank would put this information out on the forum without first having already been in discussion with yourself. Well I guess we will find out more in time, but unless any such announcements come from SC directly, I take it all with a pinch of salt.

All the best

User avatar
Marco
Posts: 1061
Joined: Thu Oct 10, 2013 4:27 pm
Location: Germany

Re: MPA: A whole new Chapter for SCOPE and you are invited

Post by Marco » Mon Mar 05, 2018 12:20 pm

:lol: I guess MPA is nonsense?
Scope 7 user since 2017 and Scope user since 1998. :o

User avatar
Janni
Posts: 362
Joined: Thu Dec 30, 2004 4:00 pm
Location: Cologne - Germany

Re: MPA: A whole new Chapter for SCOPE and you are invited

Post by Janni » Mon Mar 05, 2018 12:33 pm

Wasn´t the Plugiator from UseAudio a project from Frank?
-/-

User avatar
Marco
Posts: 1061
Joined: Thu Oct 10, 2013 4:27 pm
Location: Germany

Re: MPA: A whole new Chapter for SCOPE and you are invited

Post by Marco » Mon Mar 05, 2018 12:48 pm

Frank Hund jumped off the Creamware's Titanic as fast as He jumps now back to planetz. :lol: MPA rules the world im shure. :P
Scope 7 user since 2017 and Scope user since 1998. :o

Post Reply