Pro Flexor for Scope 5 - PETITION

[garyb]

please stop exposing your *ss...

if it sees too much sun it will certainly end up sore.

[zangsta]

Braincell, If this had been WInnie-the-Pooh,
you would have been an outstanding Ior...just brilliant !!

As a guitarist, I feel that you should speak just for yourself,
not assume so much about other people.
I have used sequencers for over twenty years,
as I also worked as producer, technician and play a little keyboard.
You simplify way to much in your arguments, and use all as a cover for your negativity...
what´s so terribly wrong in your life so you have to spew all this s**t all over Scope,
SonicCore and all the rest of us...??

Because you are spewing all over one of the best production-systems available !!!
Not perfect....but close enought for me, Gary, Jimmy, Ken, Hans Zimmer....and several thousand other
highly skilled musicians, producers and technicians !!!!

I respect you very much as a musician, and I´d love to hear you record much more, and
whine much less...!!

Jörgen

[garyb]

and just to be clear,

i'm not against improving automation in Scope, in fact, i'm ALL FOR IT(while acknowledging that the current midi implimentation works fine, it's just limited and slower to set up than some newer solutions). what i'm against is assuming that Holger and Jurgen and the others at S/C just don't care. whether or not anyone agrees with all their decisions, they most certainly DO care. the fact that they kept their child alive(yes, their child). after the first Creamware isolvancy which was caused by an unnamed and Noah, these original programmers were seperated from the work they had started. check the credits and see who they are. these guys put themselves out to keep Scope alive only because they DO care. i am confident that they will continue to implement improvements as they can, even if it's not fast enough for everyone.

the main thing is that the Scope platform is solid and useful. there's no reason to break it just to keep up with market "trends".

[siriusbliss]

Gary no company is perfect. While the sound of Scope is superior, as I pointed out, the GUI is less elegant. You obviously haven't used Reason much so therefore you must abstain from commenting on it. As a guitarist, you are not sequence oriented I assume. Someone else mentioned (I forgot who) he is a guitarist and uses Scope. I am pretty sure that the vast majority of Scope and Reason users are not guitarists. You don't know much about sequencing and don't care. I understand that. Sequencing is an important part of most electronic music.

Another shallow opinion sir Brain. Sorry, but I'm a veteran guitarist who DOES sequence (see my profile to see I'm also a synth-guitarist and my Chapman Stick us DUAL MIDI instrument, so I'm already over-the-top in MIDI), and HAS used Reason and many other sequencers going back to Atari/Amiga days. IMO reason is a toy at best. And that's MY opinion and experience.

Also of note, that historically so-called 'Electronic' music has at least 35 years of history PRIOR to sequencing paradigms, and guys like Tomita were ANAL about high-end audio quality. So, I say we keep pushing Scope as the renaissance of 'old/new school' high-end electronic 'enhanced' music production system that isn't lodged so deep up to it's neck in yet another sequencer, bleep-blurp machine.

Flexor is great stuff, and Scope really enables it to show what can be done with dedicated engineering.

Still hope the two parties can work it out. Otherwise I'll just stick with FLexor, and use the rest of Scope to record everything else (acoustic or otherwise).

Greg

[dawman]

Ahh..Brotha' Man Isao..............Tomita's Snowflakes Are Dancing ala Flexor III is an ongoing project of mine actually.

I have Reverie, Clare de Lune, and Dr. Graddus ad Parnassum so far. It is a very good way to study classical IMHO while learning basic and advanced modular synthesis. The hardest part is multi tracking it. There's no obnoxious click track to follow. One must decipher the song and select a melody that works it's way throught the entire tune, then have the other tracks and melodies added. It's not easy, as you must really listen while recording. But it's an excellent workout, and the results are well worth the effort.

You know Isao Tomita doesn't use that piece of crap from Arturia, he uses the real Modular synths, but you know deep down he alway wanted to use Flexor III and Modular. Fuck those patch cords.

These kids nowadays are so spoiled. Never knowing what sequencing hundreds of songs on a 1 x 6 inch LCD was like. Or even having to struggle w/ Opcode on a Mac.

Even sampled instruments damn near must be made to play themselves or the sales drop off drastically.

The day I have to have my trills performed for me, or my notes to be bent for me, or have the horn section swells timed for me,........I should have my nuts cut off. It's absurd to be a developer for such a large group of children.

Flexor III is so well developed, I feel like a child, but that's what makes me learn and practice.

[bill3107]

Hey Braincell, I think I am going to re-edit my post against you .... I remember a bad review about the MIKO (french Keyboard Recording). Do you want a copy before bying it ?

About the thread itself I agree with Garyb : Felxor as a vsti AND for Scope. Damn, They can do a cheap vsti to stick with their philosophy and a more expensive one for Scope alla Digidesign ....

About sequencing : each musician is happy with one sequencer. I love Nuendo and Samplitude/sequoia. Others just prefer Logic, etc ... So I think that developping a sequencer for Scope would be a waste of time and money (can you imagine what is involved in such a product!!!!).

It seems you are, braincell, almost the only one thinking that Xite is a bad product. Yes, that's a quite big investment but that's another question. As Gary pointed out, do you know what are the prices for high end audio gear ? Sonnox plugins (dynamics bundle) for powercore are 1500 euros alone + powercore x8 is 1500 euros. And you only get very good plugins + DSP. I would love buying such a product because you can get a very good sound (some UAD plugisn are very good too !). Buuuut, have you compared the sound of these expensive plugins to that of some 3rd party ones (for Soniccore) ? Just buy some DAS EQs (or try them, as there are demos) and you will understand ! I have just bought the AI comp from DAS and both GUI and sound are excellent... I think GUI is getting better and better when it comes to 3rd party device (which was, you are right, THE weakness of a host of devices).

Reviews ? The latest review about plugiator (french KR again) mainly says : you get the very good sound of creamware emulation. I am not intersted in plugiator as scope gives polyphony, multi-timbrality, flexibility, fx, power.... but as reviews seems relevant for you, keep in mind Scope gives very good emulations... Amazingly, you forget to mention these reviews and seems to be blind about the bad ones dealing with MIKO ... hum hum .... Annnnnnnnnnnd if you do not find any difference between demos and full software, then you are not a customer Soniccore is aiming at for sure....

I know many people happy with Reason so it may fit many people's need but I only tried it once. That's why I will not give any opinion about this product ... that seems fair, does'nt it ?

PS : I have the MIKO and plugiator reviews (in french) available. I am able to scan them if someoneis intersted. As plugiator, nothing special : it sounds very good (B2003, vocodizer....) but many limitations .... I would personnaly buy a Pulsar2 instead to get in/outs, dsp, flexibility

[Immanuel]

Electronic music is a recording art. We don't play live, that is for guitar bands. The Xite is a live product for people who don't play live.

I am a guitarist a singer and a music therapist. When I play guitar and sing, I don't use sequenzers and I would love to have Xite. And when I do music therapy, I would in some instances love to have Xite too.

[neuromantik]

Hello, I'm a french cw user with pulsar2 + scope boards (21dsp) and although I won't comment on the bashing of SC or its detrators I would like to say that I personally use my scope platform for sound design and mixing. As such I'm sad to see Flexor joining the VST world simply because (don't laugh) I've always had some exclusiveness amongst my peers who have given up on CW long ago and were always drooling when I showed them the Flexor modules

That being said, I understand some POVs stating that X-Cite seems more recording oriented rather than synthesis. Why you ask? Well although I'm sure the stock creamware synths sound great no one can disagree that they are getting quite old and that vintage emulations is not something everyone wants to do. FlexorIII for me (along with Solaris) was the only real venture made my 3rd parties to exploit the SCOPE platform for pure sound design/synthesis. The real digital stuff that sounds great as analog.

I truly hope some kind of arrangement can be worked out. At the risk of being flamed, I do think that SC's 3rd party development policies are a little strict and that they should think a little more long term about trying to motivate people do adopt their platform by encouraging, not chastising quality 3rd party developement. Thank you for listening.

[bill3107]

Neuro, as you are french I won't throw stones on you ... just kidding ! I am not in Flexor stuff so I am not able to talk about this soft that seems just amazing (although it needs some skills). But I agree with the fact this software can attract many sounddesigner to xite (considering the amazing power available). I love Soniccore emulation but I understand that, depending on your music style, you may need other kinds of synth. On the other hand, when it comes to synth / soudn design and - I don't think I am wrong - there are very good VSTi available right ? I mean, I just think Flexor is not a priority right now. So I can imagine, Holger have not taken the time to think about it right now as hardware + software must cope with the main target's needs (live, recording seems obvious !). On that point, I tend to agree .... A small team cannot waste time and money and must, above all, focus its attention on the main purposes : reliable hardware and software + good plugins. These first steps mean a huge work and time, time .... I have personnally received some answers to my emails (directly to Holger after Namm) and that guy seems very very busy !

That's why I am not saying Adern takes the blame for that (Soniccore either) but I am just saying Holger is a kind of Noah and those who want to enter the Arch must accpet the rules... Damn, many 3rd party developpers have already accepted these rules and Soniccore has built the Arch (xite) .... It is up to Adern to decide (and I fully respect their decision) :
- raise the price and developp for Xite
- drop Xite and create a VSTi ; then will they meet their customers ? I am not sure ...
- as GaryB suggested .... both !!!! (that's also my opinion .... just see Brainworx !)

I also think there some legal issues (modular3 / Flexor) that may have some influence on the price and the forthcoming agreement (we all hope ther will be one !) but actually I don't know ....

I also think this forum is not the place for business discussion between Soniccore and 3rd developpers that's why I am happy there is no official answer, by now, from Soniccore. That also mean the better news are to come .... Who knows ?

[braincell]

It's not just the price of the Xite but the fact that I would prefer an Xite card. A card I can use with my existing modules,Flexor, midi interface and A16. For whatever reason, SC decided to go outside of the computer. That is not necessary. Did I mention I already own an A16 and a MIDI interface?

Whatever you want to say about it, most electronic musicians use computers and record at home not in some filthy stinking dark club. One or two of you are the exception not the rule. Dropping Flexor was indicative of poor management. It will be interesting when Frank comes out with his Xite at 1/8 the cost .

Red is cool Red is the man. I'm still waiting to hear your cello playing Red.

[Immanuel]

It's not just the price of the Xite but the fact that I would prefer an Xite card.

I really like, that Xite is not a card. One thing that has held me back from going truly portable with my rig, is my fear of the stabillity of the cable whip, if an accident should happen. I learned it the cheap way by breaking up a jack on a Luna card. I would hate to screw up my 14 and 15 DSP cards.

Did I mention I already own an A16 and a MIDI interface?

Yes, and I truly do not understand why you are talking about your A16. There is nothing about XITE stopping you from using that thing.

Whatever you want to say about it, most electronic musicians ...

It is amazing how you bash SC for not thinking progressively, while it is you who insists on being stuck in the assumption, that DSPs are only useful to electronic musicians ... and a very few others.

Dropping Flexor was indicative of poor management.

Do you know the inside story, or are you just flashing assumptions as truths?

It will be interesting when Frank comes out with his Xite at 1/8 the cost

I will see it before I believe it.

[braincell]

I need the power of the Xite on a card. I hope this is makes it clear. Portability isn't important for me. The card would have at least 8 channels of ADAT, etc like the Scope card does. Do you understand me now? That is what I meant by an Xite card. It would have PCIe and the same DSP chips as the Xite. I hope you can understand me. This post is pretty clear and direct. I'm sorry if my previous post was not clear to you.

[Immanuel]

I need the power of the Xite on a card. I hope this is makes it clear. Portability isn't important for me. The card would have at least 8 channels of ADAT

Ok, I get it. I think it would be expensive, because it will apeal to less users, and they would have to gain back their R/D costs and profit on less sold units. Those 2 preamps, which you will not use, could easily be saving you money.

[braincell]

I was thinking that people are willing to pay more for hardware but not a lot for a card. Perhaps one that is not as fast as the Xite but faster than current cards.

[garyb]

the XITE IS the new card. it works the same as the cards do now, except it's connected to a PCI-e slot. likely there will be a smaller version, perhaps all in the computer in the future. in the mean time, the old cards still work just the same as always and THEY ARE STILL BEING MANUFACTURED AND SOLD!!

both XITE and the old cards will run on the exact same v5 software.

[braincell]

So it requires a computer?

[nightscope]

So it requires a computer?

Meanwhile, back at Thunderbirds HQ, amid the deafening silence of the underground bunker, Brains hears a slight dink. The ancients called this the "sound of the penny dropping".



ns

[Fluxpod]

[Immanuel]

So it requires a computer?

Are you seriously saying, that you have been bashing Xite for so long without even making yourself familiar with the basics?

[nightscope]

So it requires a computer?

Hi Brains,

Yes. It's really exactly the same as the present cards except it's an external box and PCIe with preamps. And more horsepower under the hood. As far as I can see it won't do much more than the current cards. Same software, same everything. Except bigger, faster and, etc, etc. More room for more complex DSP-hungry algos and future developments. For some who need the power it will be a necessity. Me, I got overhead to spare and some as it is. I don't do particularly big projects. 2 x 15's Scopers, UAD and DualCore, more than enough for me. Xcite's portability is a big come on tho. It would mean I could track drums on location wherever very easily. Portability is the big one for me, could be really useful.

All the best.

ns