SpaceF KrOn and CV synths

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spacef
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Re: SpaceF KrOn and CV synths

Post by spacef »

that's alright Valis - and everyone - we all have to be careful in those uncertain times, especially when one is self employed.
The devices are not going to disappear anyway I wish everyone could enjoy them right now though, the KrOn stuff can be really efficient at eating a lot of your free time :-) .

BTW, a few small buglets were reported to me. small unperfections but no show stoppers.
-- JunZ: you need to press drone mode once to get sound (button at the top of the device, near the preset label display)
-- BB3 oscillator presets: they call oscillators from the old BB2 oscillators folders. That's totally my fault, rushing on finishing and making stuff available, while forgetting about getting everyone's install path the same.
I will get back on this tomorrow.
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Re: SpaceF KrOn and CV synths

Post by spacef »

Hi all, I did not find any issue in JunZ.... all seems good to me (loads and plays fine). So no update to yesterday's update :-)
https://forums.scopeusers.com/viewtopic ... 10&t=35697
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Re: SpaceF KrOn and CV synths

Post by yayajohn »

Are these update files supposed to have recent "date modified" tags because i'm showing only a few:

Magma - 1/22/2020
Filt-eq-1m - 3/20/2020
k16 -2/26/2020
kl16-2/26/2020

All other files were labeled older dates.
Also my download section only includes the BBIII files. The Kron and company files downloads are on the product pages, is this correct?

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spacef
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Re: SpaceF KrOn and CV synths

Post by spacef »

Ah yes, you probably got it before I updated the website shop. Thanks for the heads-up.
Updated the product page files , and here are the direct links for the updates:
KrOn - https://spacef-devices.com/DOWNLOADS/SpaceF-KrOn.zip
KrOn Max Pack - https://spacef-devices.com/DOWNLOADS/Sp ... axPack.zip

Here is a pic with the dates of modification/creation (format = day / month / year )
FILES.png
FILES.png (9.14 KiB) Viewed 1565 times
If you want me to update your shop account by adding downloadables that you purchased before the site/shop updates, I can do it for the current products that are displayed in the shop, but I sometime forget who is behind the nicknames. Also , woocommerce is not search friendly (it is slow and also GDPR limitations apply - or may be woocommerce wants me to buy a plugin for this, but I am not funded for this right now) .. For example, it is not possible to look for orders of a certain users (or I did not find how to do it). So the search process if pretty tedious.
SOLUTION ---> Please PM or email me with your name and the pack that you would like me to add (or the nickname you used on my site for the purchase), so I can do it easily and quickly. It will be much easier for me like this, and much quicker for you. Thanks a lot in advance.
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Re: SpaceF KrOn and CV synths

Post by yayajohn »

Thanks Mehdi. i will check on that. Having all the files in my download section isn't really necessary I just wanted to make sure there weren't 2 versions of the files on your site.

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Re: SpaceF KrOn and CV synths

Post by spacef »

Guys, I think I upoloaded the wrong KrOn version which did not show show the T1 / T2 in mixers outputs and Quad etc. Please check and if I am right, I have just uploaded the right version online (in your accounts and on product page).

Also check this https://youtu.be/D_ysfwAaBEk
MAGMA-VIDEO.png
MAGMA-VIDEO.png (215.53 KiB) Viewed 1374 times
Note to myself: Magma LFO 1 & 2 'as well as EG and OScillators) are available as modulators just uinder the filters and are mixed with the CV inputs, no need to get them through the adders.... (now i will remember :-) )
Note to all: generic midi controllers are the best for scope. MAschine is cool because pots and buttons can be labelled. However, I don't do it because once the track is recorded as audio, i never save projects or presets... it's all dynamic, andthe rest is actually a waste of time to me (because when I want to do music, I don't laucnh a soft to program stuff that will make the momentum go away), except for those stuff that are permanent in the project (but i've been there, and that's not for me, as set-ups change often).
You can also check this one which is less musical, but shows that with one pot i can control the resonance of the filter and the feedback of the echo, it happens at the begining, until i change the midi cc number of the echo feedback. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EVW8SuVDxOA

JUNZ (aka JunZee, dʒuːnzi) : the bug that was reported concerns the drone mode Button that does not update on some presets. I still need to check wether it is only old presets or new ones too. I Hope we can cope with this until i find out, which can take a bit of time (and as long as we are informed... it should be ok for now).

Have a nice week end.

Stay safe !
Last edited by spacef on Sat Mar 28, 2020 11:05 am, edited 2 times in total.
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Re: SpaceF KrOn and CV synths

Post by David »

Sadly only with scope synths but that makes Kron sounds like being on salvia in reverse. Thanks for the updates these are massive. May scope midi cc count be increased for saveable and accurately recallable presets

Stay healthy and here's to more vids on sdk

An awesome thank you

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Re: SpaceF KrOn and CV synths

Post by spacef »

David wrote:
Sat Mar 28, 2020 8:24 am
Sadly only with scope synths

for the moment, i have only an ES 3 + Pico VCO wavetable for my tests, lol :-) not very interesting :-) will use next time though.
Scope oscillators are fatter & better than what i have, and allow to save money (rack below is more around 4000 euros than 3500 USD - same price as moog matriarch+grandmother, or a dozen of behringer clones) - at least KrOn saves between 1000 and 2000 € of extra modules (or more depending on brands).
I still regret selling the ms20-mini because of its dirty filter that behringer was unable to clone (K2 is *not* and ms20 at all - their 3340 osc is pretty clean though).

May be one day (having fun on modular grid website). Eurorack 100% for 1 or 2 KrOn (is it worth it? probably) :
MODULARGRID-SPACEF-KRON.jpg
MODULARGRID-SPACEF-KRON.jpg (76.56 KiB) Viewed 1287 times

UPDATE TIME (FINAL HOPEFULLY)
==========================================


KrON:
=====


-- Corrects all overlapping pop-up menus (pitch 1 & 2) that could go behind pots and menus of the bottom sections. Many of those went unoticed by me because of diffrerence between SDK, Scope 5, Scope 7 etc. Now fixed !!
-- Graphics: BPM section graphics corrected (KrOnSync button was hiding texts, no text for external midi clock...)
-- T1 & T2 added as modulators in the P1/P2 mixers but only in the third selector. Because not having them there was totally against KrOn's philosophy (especially when *not* using P1/P2 for quantized Pitch). Now corrected, workflow and momentum are saved (as long as you remember that they are available only in the 3rd selector, which should be fine)..
-- Dual KrOnSync Output: for better project organization, the KrOnSYnc output (Bpm Output Pad) is placed at the top and at the bottom of the device. It is the same pad, just helps to have better looking routing window if possible.
-- KrOn loads with settings that make it easier to hear differences in various "play modes" (check the leds to see what notes it plays in the different modes ==> it won't do anything if you have the same notes repeating on all 4-steps sections, it is much more obvious on complex 32 step sequences: that way you should hear many differences).
--- Litterature: some tooltips were re-written for better understanding (bpm section).

JunZ
====

-- Added LFO Sync, BPM, internal sync, KrOnSync (no external midi clock = intentional/not important: please use external clock with KrOn or synth like Magma if you really need an external clock).
-- Internal BPM display disappears when KrOn Sync is "On". KronSync button tells you to check tempo on KrOn (it is unfortunately not possible to display the KrOn's tempo on external devices, so you have to check on KrOn if you forget what is your master tempo) (*).
-- Changed color of the audio-input insert slot to grey for better visibility
-- Audio Input send to Ring is now taken Pre-Insert. This allows to have the audio as Ring modulator while audio-in level is at 0.
-- Drone mode button display should be corrected but presets might have to be resaved for correction to happen.
-- More informative tooltips (audio-in ring led-button, kronsync section).


Magma
======

--- KrOnSync Inputs at the top and bottom of the device for better looking routing window (gives choices).
--- Internal BPM display disappears when KrOn Sync is "On". KronSync button tells you to check tempo on KrOn (*).
--- KrOnSYnc input renamed to "Bpm" for consistency over several devices.
--- NOTE: modulation wheel fader looks like it behave strangely when selected with the mouse but it is because it is actually a rotary knob. It is made to be used with mod-Wheel though, so mouse behaviour has not been changed (the rotary behaviour is the one with the highest resolution or easiest to use in my opinion).

Spirit
======

--- Drone mode button now in presets as should be.
--- KrOnSync Inputs at the top and bottom of the device for better looking routing window (gives choices)
--- Internal BPM display disappears when KrOn Sync is "On". KronSync button tells you to check tempo on KrOn (*).
--- KrOnSYnc input renamed to "Bpm" for consistency over several devices.


Many thanks to beta testers who helped a lot in making this update quickly available and as complete as possible...

(*) having the tempo display disapear and leave an empty space can be confusing at first, but adding a graphic that looks nicer implies adding logical modules, controller pads, and graphic groups = additional dsp resources. In the current design, the dsp resources used = 0 ) .

Pictures below:
- it is possible to connect both outputs to different bpm inputs of different devices.
- it is not possible to connect 2 Bpm inputs at the same time. The device will not let you connect the second pad once one of them is connected ("cannot route / incompatible pads" error message = perfectly normal/logical behaviour)

Please NOTE; it is normal that KrOn displays a "division by zero " message when you "Kron-Sync it" with no master Kron BPM plugged into the Bpm inputs. when nothing is plugged in, KrOn sees BPM=0 and cannot compute the actual tempo (0 in = 0 out = impossible tempo).
Attachments
MAGMA-DDUAL-INS.jpg
MAGMA-DDUAL-INS.jpg (9.04 KiB) Viewed 1287 times
KRON-DUAL-SYNC-OUT.jpg
KRON-DUAL-SYNC-OUT.jpg (7.96 KiB) Viewed 1287 times
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Re: SpaceF KrOn and CV synths

Post by spacef »

Did someone ask for a KrOn Video with eurorack stuff ?
here you go --- > https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=63dLKQ3KhXo


KrON v2 is available for download from your user account. It is the same zip as before, but it now includes 4 new devices.

For details about the update, please check this page.

I am taking a couple of days off to avoid burn-out (!) - but feel free to discuss the update here or on the spacef support section.
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Re: SpaceF KrOn and CV synths

Post by dawman »

Ok Mehdi.
Here’s what I need to know.
I want to use a Moog Minotaur and ditch my SE-02 as I’ve grown weary of it.

Explain to me what I could do with a Minotaur and Scope DSP/kRon, etc.

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Re: SpaceF KrOn and CV synths

Post by spacef »

Hi Dawman,

I can first direct you to a video I did when I had both the ms20 and minitaur.
--> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5-sM5Za ... =emb_title

The Minitaur is controlled by KrOn and by Midi. The midi (through USB) gives the root notes. KrOn modulates filters and gates, by sending envelopes to the filters and triggering the minitaur filter envelope as well (so there is a double enveloppe on the filter).
Check at the end of the post for issues of the minitaur, which Pitch CV is buggy.

Basically, KrOn is equivalent to 1000/1500 euros of Eurorack modules (at least :-) . So it's first purpose is to save money.
The second purpose is to extend the modulators of your CV synth with scope modulators.

KrOn is also calibrated for CV, so it is not simply a scope modulator: It is a scope modulator which range is the one required by CV at V/oct or Hz/V formats.

It also gives the ability to save presets and recall them with program changes, control more parameters with Midi CC, ie you can record and reproduce movements that control CV inputs (like filter cutoff etc).

To use KrOn with CV you need a converter of some kind, one that supports V/Oct. I can't tell wether a simple DC Coupled interface or cable is enough. I Tried with the doepfer A138s mixer, which is supposed to accept both CV and audio and can mix them together, but plugging directly a signal from scope (a16 or direct from scope) did not get me anywhere. the signal is flat whatever i do, and modulates when i move some knobs in Scope, but it is useless (and gets back to flatness when i stop moving the scope knob, such as an LFO gain for example).

I would advice the expert sleeper ES3, which require a eurorack case with the right power supply, but I know there are standalone boxes that will do the same job. The latter are harder to find and can be expensive.


To know whether you would use it, especially for a live player like you who like to solo and play with both hands, only you know if you would use KrOn.

Personnally, it allows me to have both hands free to turn pots, and have luxurious modulator options with anything that has CV inputs.
Now, I don't even look at synths that do not have CV inputs.


Minitaur Issues:

Minitaur has a bug on the CV Pitch, that can conflict with midi notes. It has nothing to do with KrOn and the bug exists with any gear. At some point, the minitaur looses tuning and goes crazy.. At some point means after a couple of minutes. It is a well known bug for those who want to control it's Pitch with CV. The procedure for tuning/calibration of the Minitaur oscillators does not work, it looses focus constantly. I do not know if this has been solved recently. Another annoyance of the minitaur is that it's main oscillator cannot be tuned (tuning of osc 1 is fixed once and for all). Only the 2nd oscillator is tunable relatively to the first one.
KrOn & Minitaur work well if you only modulate the filter or trigger gates, but pitch control is impossible due to Minitaur CV pitch calibration bug...

Additionnally, I don't know if the Minitaur will allow the same range of sound design as an SE02. For solos etc it is probably not the best.

Why not build your own synth with eurorack modules?
I will soon post my DIY method to make a eurorack case for less than 100 euros with 1000 mA power, 84 HP or more.
Eurorack is the way I would advise to go because of the variety of sounds. Even for you dawman :-) You can make a moogy part, mix it with a roland VCO/VCF, add some MS20 or Oberheim filters models or clones... and you don't need to build it at once. begin with a couple of osc and filters, expand as your needs evolve.
The shape of the eurorack case can be the one you want, that is not necessarily the one found in stores, and you can rack it too.
And it does not have to be expensive because there is a lot of new companies/modules that do great stuff for very reasonable prices. You can find expensive stuff too, but they are not necessarily the best (nor the worst, it really depends on who made the module, and there is no rules... well it's true that the moog clones tend to be more expensive when it is not behringer, but this is less and less true).

And a eurorack used with KrOn is simply oscillators and filters, may be some mixer to mix osc and direct them to this or that filter, may be a vca if you want. And nothing forbids to add midi-to-cv, samplers, sequencers etc.
KrOn also works for gates and triggers, so you can control samples with it, or dumboxes/drum modules. Sure, you need a computer with scope or xite, but we have that already right ? :-)

I hope it helps !
Last edited by spacef on Sun Aug 02, 2020 1:51 am, edited 4 times in total.
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Re: SpaceF KrOn and CV synths

Post by brookesy »

Hi Mehdi,

I remember a number of years ago, Expert Sleepers using a Motu interface in one of their demos for Silent Way because apparently all their interfaces were equipped with dc coupled jack outputs.

I found this

https://www.expert-sleepers.co.uk/siwac ... ility.html

It got me wondering if you could connect via the MOTU Adat connection directly out of Scope.

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spacef
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Re: SpaceF KrOn and CV synths

Post by spacef »

Hi Brookesy,

I don't see a reason why it would not work, but as I haven't tried myself, I cannot confirm it. May be someone with one of the listed card can confirm ? (here or on other forums).
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Re: SpaceF KrOn and CV synths

Post by spacef »

brookesy wrote:
Fri Jul 17, 2020 3:51 am
https://www.expert-sleepers.co.uk/siwac ... ility.html

It got me wondering if you could connect via the MOTU Adat connection directly out of Scope.
I did some reading and I found that it should work because there is no "dc-offset" in the signal path.

For example, using signal directly from scope audio outputs (I use an A16 - Xite to Zlink to A16 to audio) will give a flat signal because DC offset is filtered out. So the "digital CV signal" (from kron or other software) becomes flat once it has been DC Filtered.

The ADAT output of Scope/Xite do not have this DC offset correction at this stage and the "Digital CV" signal is unmodified. That's how a device like Expert Sleepers ADAT-to-CV is able to work.
So, by plugging scope ADAT to MOTU, and then getting the CV from the MOTU DC-Coupled ouputs should work fine, meaning that the signal sent from KrOn is not DC filtered and will be "as intended". if there is a DC-Filter somewhere in the path, it will not work because signal becomes flat.

Compatible soundcards (untested)
I found that the soundcards listed below are DC Coupled and you can do "Digital CV to Analog CV".
However, I've also read that some USB powered card will not deliver the full CV Range (and so the signal is modified by gain attenuation) - this has to be confirmed because it was only one comment and I have no idea if it true or if it is something to check in all cards. it looks weird because DCV is an audio signal in the first place, nothing to do with voltage capacity of the soundcard.

I still think that a DIY case with a Behringer PSU + an Expert Sleeper ES3 or similar is the best solution (best ratio price/number of outputs), except if you already have one of the listed card.

PreSonus
Studio26C
Studio68C
Studio1824C
QuantumTB
Quantum2TB


Universal Audio
IMPORTANT: All current Universal Audio interfaces will work except the Firewire (silverface) interfaces.
Apollo16BK
Apollo8PBK
Apollo8QBK
Apollo8DBK
ApolloTQMKII
ApolloTDusb
ApolloTDMKII
ApolloTSMKII
Arrow


MOTU
Track16
Travelermk3
1248
16A
8M
Monitor8
624
24Ao
828es
828x
8A
624
M64
UltraLiteAVB
UltraLite4
UltraLite3Hy
8PreUSB
4pre
AudioExpress
MicroBookIIc
828mk3Hy


Apogee
Symph2IO16x16
Symph2IO2X6
Symph2IO2x6SE
Symph2IO8x8
Symph2IO8x8x8
Symph2PT16x16
Symph2PT2x6
Symph2PT2x6SE
Symph2PT8x8
Symph2PT8x8x8
Symph2SG16x16

Lynx
AuroraN32DNT
AuroraN32TB
AuroraN32HD
AuroraN24TB
AuroraN24HD
AuroraN16DNT
AuroraN16TB
AuroraN16USB
AuroraHD
AuroraN8DNT
AuroraN8TB

Native Instruments
KompAudio6mk2
Last edited by spacef on Sun Aug 02, 2020 1:54 am, edited 1 time in total.
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dawman
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Re: SpaceF KrOn and CV synths

Post by dawman »

Nice to know.
Seriously thinking of some of this since I actually have time for once.
Love getting paid to practice.

It’s weird getting stimulus money from the government, my kind of socialism for sure.
Hide and seek for a grand a week...

Ankyu

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spacef
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Re: SpaceF KrOn and CV synths

Post by spacef »

UPDATE TIME
===========

UPDATE IN YOUR ACCOUNT. Please refresh the page if you do not see the download. Let me know of any problem because I changed the file names to include a date (02 08 2020, ie 2 of august 2020).
https://spacef-devices.com/


CONTENT:
=========

- New presets for KrOn 2 / Max / Mini : they are not numerous but will serve as "'init" or starters. In the big KrOns presets, you will find a 64 steps example.
- Big KrOns: graphics: a display and a poti were appearing above a drop down menu. Fixed
- Mini KrOns: the T Mix inputs were mixed up making it confusing: fixed
- Midi to CV device: changed the name so it looks smaller in your project, fixed the midi channel which was always "omni". (the Midi to CV is used after KrOn to be able to transpose midi notes when using a midi keyboard/sequencer. You don't need to use this device if you use a CV-able keyboard directly connected to your rack, where KrOn does only pitch modulation without sending root note info. The midi to CV device is used to mix Pitch Mod from krOn with the midi root note from your sequencer or midi keyboard).


Know "bug not bug"
=================
The following does not affect the way devices are saved in projects in any way.

So it is not a bug but might be annoying when you are not "aware" (even if you are JC VanDamme, you are obviously aware, but might be annoyed anyway)
- Presets have sometimes to be pressed TWICE to restores 0 values (click on the "P" square twice).
- This is a "bug not bug" due to the introduction of the "Null" value as a 37th note in the V/Oct format. This 37th notes might translate as a "+24" or "+37" when reloading presets in V/Oct... until you load the preset a second time. It is a bug because it might be bugging you, but not a bug because it is the way it is supposed to work (well, the only way it can work right now).
- I will let a month for all to test the Null function and we will decide together in september if I remove the Null Value, so the "bug not bug" will be fixed and presets will not have to be loaded twice. This can be annoying for those who want to change presets with Program Changes wich is another powerul function of KrOn...
- so for now, please press the "p" icon near presets twice to be sure the presets are restored the way you saved them ( :-/ ) .

That said, I have tested several native apps for controlling hardware through CV, and I am not ashamed to say that KrOn is top notch in terms of flexibility, number of modulators, timing reliability, easiness to mix several modulators, variety of modulators that are actually useful and can make it into final production, presets... etc etc :-)

A couple of audio demos of the included presets:
==========================================
---> https://soundcloud.com/user-442800355/s ... 2-eurorack

- The first preset is a 64 steps melody. It shows that KrOn is great to lay down the basic of a track. then you add stuff or do solos for fun. It also uses a SpaceF Ambient Delay on one of the oscillator, with an SC AutoWah in the "Main" insert slot.
- the third preset shows random pitch: it is the same melody as in the first audio, but in random mode.

String/pads are made with SpaceF Osc in Pigment 2.

The 3 audio are made with the same midi. they use the new preset delivered in the zip, controlling 2 eurorack oscillators + 1 filter + BB3 filtEq1 in Scope on one of the oscillator.


As usual, let me know of any problem for the download or else.
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