Out of DSP message, even though there is plenty?

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PlanetZaxxon
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Out of DSP message, even though there is plenty?

Post by PlanetZaxxon »

So I just installed a Pulsar2 card (adding on to a Pulsar x 2 setup, making it 14 DSP total). WinXP detected the new card fine, installed correctly. Scope finds all 3 cards fine, and displays 14 DSP. available.

But just using one synth, for example, POISON FM, then swapping it out with PROFIT5, it said MAX DSP reached, and no sound until I restart scope. It was maybe using a 1/4 of total DSP. I tried this 3 times now, and after a couple synth swaps, I get that message that max dsp has been reached, and even the DSP bars never go over 1/4 full.

I have all 3 cards in the middle PCI slots, with the PULSAR2 first, then both PULSAR1's after it.

What do you think would be causing it to think it is out of DSP? When I was running just two PULSAR 1's (8 DSP) for the past couple weeks, I never got this message at all. I could use it until the DSP bars are completely full.
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PlanetZaxxon
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Re: Out of DSP message, even though there is plenty?

Post by PlanetZaxxon »

Here is the message I am getting. It just happened now with only 1 poison FM running, 10 voice, and this message came up when I clicked LOAD FILTER ON DSP

and Im running at 44.1
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valis
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Re: Out of DSP message, even though there is plenty?

Post by valis »

Voice counts are the first thing to look at, if you load a synth with a voice count of say 8 it can take considerably more resources than you might expect. Also be aware that the internal resources for each DSP chip aren't just an empty bucket to be filled, but each dsp chip might have all usable resources for one function utilized and so give this message, while a different simpler device might still load onto that dsp chip.
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PlanetZaxxon
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Re: Out of DSP message, even though there is plenty?

Post by PlanetZaxxon »

Hmmmm gotcha. But it was getting that error if 1 voice or 10 voice, but I have been messing with every setting (sample rate, latency, etc etc) and put it all back to was, rebooted a bunch, and it hasnt come up yet and I've been jammin on proTone for awhile, on 1 or 4 or even 8 voices, no issues yet. We shall see!
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dante
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Re: Out of DSP message, even though there is plenty?

Post by dante »

You might have to try the new Pulsar 2 by itself, see what polyphony you can get up to before you get the message.

Also, how have you connected the 3 cards together STDM wise ?
mk_vip
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Re: Out of DSP message, even though there is plenty?

Post by mk_vip »

It is definitely no STDM cables between cards.
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garyb
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Re: Out of DSP message, even though there is plenty?

Post by garyb »

that is the problem. see this Scoperise article:
https://www.scopeusers.com/ScopeRise/is ... m_mast.htm
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PlanetZaxxon
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Re: Out of DSP message, even though there is plenty?

Post by PlanetZaxxon »

I definitely followed the manual closely on how to connect them all up, and I was running just two headers of the STDM for weeks with no issue. I even made another cable yesterday, this is how I have it:

But yes maybe I should try to run the Pulsar2 by itself...
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mk_vip
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Re: Out of DSP message, even though there is plenty?

Post by mk_vip »

Since at the moment of installation of SCOPE software you only had cards of the first generation (2pcs Pulsar 1), the system could be configured for 1 generation cards and did not reconfigure when installing a new 2gen Pulsar 2 card.

I would try the following:
1. Save all your created Scope projects, presets, keys...
2. Uninstall All Scope software (from Control Panel|Programs and Components)
3. Manually delete all folders: Program Files/SCOPE PCI...
4. Check the registry, delete strings: HKEY_LOCAL_MACHINE\SOFTWARE\Sonic Core
5. In Device manager delete all SonicCore DSP-Boars.
6. Reboot.
7. Install drivers (drivers can install themselves, as they are in repository of the system already).
8. Check In Device manager if drivers installed for all three cards.
9. Install Scope software....

There is a file CSET.INI in App/Bin folder of your SCOPE PCI installation (in Program Files).
After reinstallation, check this file (with simple notepad).
Find the entry:

[Host-Config]
Numboards=1
Board0=Host

"Numboards" - the number of installed cards

The rule is to have "fastest" card as main card, that's why 2gen Pulsar2 card needs to be as host (main) board.
Just check this entry and change it if your 1gen Pulsar1 is the main.
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garyb
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Re: Out of DSP message, even though there is plenty?

Post by garyb »

mk_vip-
that might have mattered in v4, but it shouldn't in v7.

it is probably a good idea to put the bigger card in the first slot, because there are bigger synths that take up multiple dsps, especially with a number of voices. the thing is, if those dsps are too far apart, the latency between chips will be too high for the device to run. you can watch the dsp meter and see what happens. it might help to load one device before another. the bogger card is most likely the one with the room, although sometimes sharing between cards works if the physical distance is close(between the points on the pathways on the cards).
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PlanetZaxxon
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Re: Out of DSP message, even though there is plenty?

Post by PlanetZaxxon »

Yes I followed the instructions in the manual and am using the middle PCI slots, with the PULSAR 2 first, then the other 2 Pulsar cards following.
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valis
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Re: Out of DSP message, even though there is plenty?

Post by valis »

1. Referencing your first screenshot, you do already appear to have the Pulsar2 (6 dsp card) "seen" by Scope as the first card. As GaryB indicated, there's no much else needed in the Scope 7 era, so you're good here.

2. you have a very large mixer in that project, and as of yet you only have 1 synth. Personally, unless I really need all the features of a mixer, I route in the routing window (rather than on a mixer) and use mostly Micromixers.

3. Aside from simplifying project usage as indicated above, the suggestion to reinstall the software might help. You don't need to reinstall *everything*, but what I suggest is going into your Scope folder (which for me, using Scope7 on Winxp is "C:\Program Files\SCOPE PCI\") and then go into your App\Application folder (so C:\Program Files\SCOPE PCI\App\Application\) and delete the "IOs" folder. This removes all existing IO modules, including any that may have carried over from earlier Scope versions. Once that's done (with Scope closed of course) go into your device manager and remove the cards. Reboot & reinstall, then see what order the cards are in, build a new project with the correct i/o's and see how things fare.

The reason I suggest #3 is many people are using Scope across multiple versions, with projects across multiple versions, and often mixed devices across versions as well. Using older projects can also be problematic for this reason, though might be necessary for project recall sometimes. Moving forward, build from scratch using Scope 7 modules and devices only, if possible. This doesn't mean no older 3rd party devices of course, simply that you are eliminating bugs that have possibly been addressed within Scope's own codebase, and that all stock modules are using the same optimization techniques and so on.
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PlanetZaxxon
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Re: Out of DSP message, even though there is plenty?

Post by PlanetZaxxon »

I appreciate all the suggestions on this! It actually has been working, and haven't seen the error at all in the past 2 days.

Valis, what do you mean by "route in the routing window" and not a mixer. You just have everything going direct form ins to outs, or a synth going right to an output?

I use a large mixer yes, and a control room switcher thing, since I have all the outs going to various external rack gear or my main recording PC. So I can quickly go back and forth via a switch in the control room module (depending if I am tracking, mastering or just capturing sounds/bits), from analog outs to spif then adat, etc etc. I also like having aux sends on the mixer, as well as master inserts for scope effects.

Same with inputs, I have various stuff going into scope that I like having hooked up all the time for easy recall. With all the routing and mixers, and control room etc it doesnt seem to take up that much DSP, I believe just about 3 bars or so on the DSP meter thing.
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PlanetZaxxon
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Re: Out of DSP message, even though there is plenty?

Post by PlanetZaxxon »

current routing:
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valis
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Re: Out of DSP message, even though there is plenty?

Post by valis »

Yes, I route directly between devices & i/o's. I do understand why you use the mixer, I used to do that as well. When I worked with Assaf on Flexor, I learned a lot about maximizing my use of resources in Scope for what I wanted it for, things that can be done elsewhere are. But noone wants to dictate YOUR workflow, just giving hints since (as GaryB points out) sometimes resources are limited by the size of the board and/or how direct a path is between dsp's when certain resources are no longer available locally.

As flexible as Scope is, you can use it in many ways. So rather than worrying about what the best way is for even me, I have learned multiple workflows and just deploy what works best at any given time. Like you, I have a variety of external gear and lots of i/o in my space. So much so, that most of my i/o to Scope is ADAT/AES/Spdif now. It connects to my main board through one of my card's analog i/os on the output, and the input is fed off of a bus on my board. The other card (I use 2) is fed from my sends and goes back to a return. That effectively gives me a solid path to bus process audio, return audio, feed any synth stack or etc, and I can also do an fx chain on the send/return (or return another stereo pair etc). The reality for me is that most things are going to get fed back via ADAT and bounced down eventually, so I started working in this manner.

What that does is effectively give me a solid signal chain that does 1 thing in the end, whether it's a full fat synth stack or processing something external to record it, etc.

I also btw don't use Scope as my primary soundcard. It's a dedicated box, and runs alongside multiple other machines, several of which have RME soundcards and can act in a DAW role if needed. My main DAW is a very old Mac Pro 3,1 running Logic Pro X, Ableton Live & Bidule. That's 1 ADAT+AES connection to Scope. Another machine is a similar spec (2008 era) dual Xeon that can run any number of things as well, and is often used for something like VCV rack or etc, when put to an audio use. There's another one between them that also returns via adat to the second Scope card, this machine is a newer i7-8700 and also runs an RME card but more typically does visual workflow duties. It can however take in all the audio & video from my room and send it out to the world via Zoom, OBS and etc.

And of course there's synths and other machines in here, as well as laptops and controllers.

So for me, Scope is analogous to a synth workstation and/or TC-6000 style powerhorse most of the time.
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Re: Out of DSP message, even though there is plenty?

Post by garyb »

fwiw-i always use the mixer. i have plenty of dsp, however.
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PlanetZaxxon
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Re: Out of DSP message, even though there is plenty?

Post by PlanetZaxxon »

I do a similar thing, I treat the scope PC as just a sound/synth source, then I just track one idea or instrument/synth at a time to my main PC, running an RME MultiFace II. But in between that path is external rack gear if I feel the need.

So since I only really do one synth at a time, or 4 or so drum synths at a time if doing percussion/drums, I was annoyed why I was getting the out of DSP thing, heh. But it seems to fine now, and I didnt even change or do anything.
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valis
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Re: Out of DSP message, even though there is plenty?

Post by valis »

I'm not a fan of mystery with computers, as it tends to show up later at the most inopportune times.
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PlanetZaxxon
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Re: Out of DSP message, even though there is plenty?

Post by PlanetZaxxon »

For my next issue, heh, I just have the tiniest bit of low volume clicks when using SPDIF. And it only seems to be on higher octave notes (C5 and up), which I thought was weird. And it is pretty inconsistent. I have both PC's at 44.1, with the buffer on scope at 10, and the buffer on the RME multi face at 512 (12ms). But no matter which settings I use on either machine, it is always the same, just a very very small audible inconsistent clicking on higher notes.

And I get none of those artifacts when using the Analog outs.
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valis
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Re: Out of DSP message, even though there is plenty?

Post by valis »

Electrical or optical SPDIF?

What I/o is on your Scope (XLR or classic/rca)?

Does this occur with native signals or sounds that originated in Scope?
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