Active Sensing filter in Scope ?

[dante]

Anyone know if theses a simple device in Scope to filter out Active Sensing ? I know there's a way to suppress them being displayed in the MIDI Monitor, but I want to eliminate them altogether.

I have Impact Soundworks Pedal Steel and it produces stepping on pitch bend (when playing live but not on MIDI playback), and I want to test if thats causing the issue but the Evolution MK261 doesnt have any instructions on how to stop the Keyboard from transmitting active sensing.

[jpo_midigods]

Yes you always have the Midi Filter stock device. It has also a filtered out so you can also use it to separate i.e. pitch bend messages and monitor check for any unwanted messages. It also helps to know when its time to clean your midi controllers...

[dante]

Thanks - I found the MIDI filter. But that didn't make any difference. I also noticed on the MIDI Monitor that the active sensing stopped whilst I was doing a pitch bend anyway so looks like active sensing is not the issue

[garyb]

that would not be a problem caused by active sensing.

[nebelfuerst]

Midifilter of scope should do the job. I also use MidiOX, which also allows to kill active sensing.
Active sensing is some sort of heartbeat and should give other messages the priority.

I also used MidiOX to log the midi-messages (ascii) and do some graphs using excel afterwards.
This way you could get a curve of pitch value vs. time.
This might show whether pitch values are lacking resolution or timing is the issue.

[dante]

MIDI Filter works, but active sensing not the problem. Heres how it sounds :

Pedal Steel Stepping.zip

Pedal Steel Stepping Zipper

(2.16 MiB) Downloaded 91 times

[valis]

Use a slew filter in mod and output the result.

[dawman]

One last idea for you Dante.
SilentWay Suite + Modular means audio becomes modulation source when using Modular.
I used it a long time ago and it really made Portamento more authentic.
Seems a higher resolution than 0-127 is required.

MIDI Spec 2 CC#88 allows 0-16,000 for PBend, you just need the same resolution I think with Andrews Pedal Steel.

[dante]

Yeah Ill wait for Midi spec 2 & see if Andrew will implement. meanwhile Ill just suck it up for live or recording, as the issue is not present on playback or mixdown.

ThanksU

Its gonna be a PITA when MIDI 2 comes along but none of the current billion VST's or h/ware on the planet receives it .

[Bud Weiser]

It´s a "7 Bit" vs "14 Bit" resolution problem.

For better resolution, LSB and MSB have to be combined and both, the controller/transmitter and the receiver should be able to deal w/ "14Bit" resolution.
Today´s MIDI standard pitchbend message is 3 bytes (each byte = 8 bits),- status byte, LSB and MSB.
When manufacturers set the LSB to zero and use only the MSB,- there are only 7 bits of resolution.
The scale of MIDI pitchbend controller is already 0 - 16.383.
No need for MIDI 2.0 !

https://sites.uci.edu/camp2014/2014/04/ ... -messages/

I bet, your controller as also the plugin use 7-bit resolution only.



Bud

[yayajohn]

Ah Bud beat me to it 14bit for sure.
-Roli, Linnstrument, or ribbon controller?
-adjust the pitchbend range in the program?

[Bud Weiser]

This hamburg/germany based boutique company makes (also custom build) MIDI controller devices being able to output 14Bit high resolution for critical parameters.

http://www.faderfox.de/home.html



Bud

[valis]

all faders on the BCF2000 can be set to 14bit, I've found I can DJ better with that (14bit fader) than I can with most CDJ's, though still better with a Mk2/Mk3 Technics.

Btw MIDI 1.0 is limited in the time domain too, in that it's about the speed of a 32kbaud modem. Large messages make that VERY noticeable, so if you have PB & several other complex messages going (Sysex or NRPN) down the same physical connection, things can get wonky indeed.

As for active sensing, a device that implements it ONLY considers it in the absence of other data. Ie, if data is received it SHOULD actually be considered the same way as the active sensing pulse by whatever logic is in that device. The goal was to avoid endless stuck notes, not enforce that active sensing always be present.

[jpo_midigods]

I bet problem is with the guitar VST mainly because of polyphony and modulation options of 6 strings instruments are more complex than common keyboard based synths - check this VST and monitor its midi out as you only need midi from controller to VST.

Do you have a midifile that causes problems when playing it? if you post it I can check it for you.
cheers, jpo

[dante]

Thanks for offer but - no - I don’t. The point that seems go get missed - also with the tech support - is that the problem is not reproducible from playback of the MIDI. Only live playing.

It makes no difference if controllers recorded in MIDI are dense or not.

So the issue seems to be on transmission from keyboard - via XITE - to DAW rather than DAW only to VST.

And happens monophonically - when no issues doing poly bends on other Shreddage guitars from the same setup.

[dawman]

Yeah Ill wait for Midi spec 2 & see if Andrew will implement. meanwhile Ill just suck it up for live or recording, as the issue is not present on playback or mixdown.

ThanksU

Its gonna be a PITA when MIDI 2 comes along but none of the current billion VST's or h/ware on the planet receives it .

Actually MIDI Spec 2 I speak of was a refinement that’s available now.
Read about SilentWay Suite somewhere in this forum.

You can get PBend resolution which is 0-16,000 applied to any parameter.
Or refine our PBend to higher resolution because “hearing” stepping can be overcome by using audio as the modulation source.
All Scope Modules allow this.

[dawman]

I’ll ask Tiago who turned me onto this to resend me his instructions.
My Scope synths portamento was weak, also steppy.
Expert Sleepers SilentWay Suite changed that immediately.

I’ll catch him hopefully on FakeBook.

[dante]

Yeah I read about Silentway when you first got into it years ago. If I was playing live I’d go audio rate modulation - silent way have a Reason RE as well, but you have to convert to audio first. It then routed to VST via the Reason CV connectivity.

For just tracking I probably won’t bother.

But yeah SW fits well into the Reason CV Ecosystem

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7tSrcx9M_IU

https://www.reasonstudios.com/shop/rack ... ontroller/

Silent Way

silentwayrack.jpg (97.98 KiB) Viewed 2170 times

[valis]

I think you can still troubleshoot this further. Use Midi-OX or another tool to watch the messages. Are you getting both MSB & LSB chunks? When doing a PB alone are you seeing smooth values or is there some discontinuity in the event stream (pauses, skips etc)?

[dante]

This is what Im getting from the Scope MIDI Monitor (dont have MIDI OX installed). When held bend wheel fully open, there was time for one Active Sensing message before bringing the wheel back to rest position. Looks like 2 in every 3 values is skipped - maybe thats the issue. But when sequencer plays it back - maybe its filling in the missing values.

Pitch Bend MIDI

pitch-bend.jpg (64.34 KiB) Viewed 2156 times