How to optimize windows 10 for Scope to avoid clicks and pops!?
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GordonGekko
- Posts: 116
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Re: How to optimize windows 10 for Scope to avoid clicks and pops!?
Is the psu new or picked up from your older system? Maybe test the pins and see if the readings are within specs
Re: How to optimize windows 10 for Scope to avoid clicks and pops!?
The PSU is from my older system, but it is not even 2 years old.
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GordonGekko
- Posts: 116
- Joined: Wed Nov 04, 2015 4:34 am
Re: How to optimize windows 10 for Scope to avoid clicks and pops!?
As with any electronic device, the power supply is critical. I'd say more than any other hardware component.
Good luck
Good luck
Re: How to optimize windows 10 for Scope to avoid clicks and pops!?
2 years isn't that old, use AIDA64 or something similar to monitor voltages at idle & under load.
Re: How to optimize windows 10 for Scope to avoid clicks and pops!?
I've googled "delete onedrive from registry" and found this:garyb wrote: ↑Sat Apr 25, 2020 12:05 pm yes, thst does not remove OneDrive. you also have to remove the registry entries. see Google.
(edit)
no, a dedicated partition is not the solution. i keep saying that multiple partitions can cause files to be loaded from the wrong partition. your audio apps should be on C: and there really shouldn't be any other OS. the trickier you get with Windows 10, the worse it works.
(edit)
i always use 4ms@ 44.1k.
https://www.windowscentral.com/how-remo ... windows-10
When I follow the instructions, the "HKEY_CLASSES_ROOT\CLSID\{018D5C66-4533-4307-9B53-224DE2ED1FE6}" is not there.
Are you sure, that with the recent windows 10 updates, it is still necessary to go that extra length to completely remove Onedrive?
Also, Do you you have a link to more information about "multiple partition" being as problematic as you describe? I'd like to dive into that and understand it better.
Re: How to optimize windows 10 for Scope to avoid clicks and pops!?
if it's not there, great.
what's to understand? i gave a reason, do as you see fit. many people use multiple partitions without issues, but many do not and those that do not complain about strange problems. i have seen files from the wrong partition addressed more than once. i am not saying that your partitions are making problems, but they can...a computer is simply a big filing cabinet. if all the files are where they should be, and can be accessed in a timely fashion, there is rarely a complaint. i don't have clicks.
what's to understand? i gave a reason, do as you see fit. many people use multiple partitions without issues, but many do not and those that do not complain about strange problems. i have seen files from the wrong partition addressed more than once. i am not saying that your partitions are making problems, but they can...a computer is simply a big filing cabinet. if all the files are where they should be, and can be accessed in a timely fashion, there is rarely a complaint. i don't have clicks.
Re: How to optimize windows 10 for Scope to avoid clicks and pops!?
I'm a curious person Gary and I'd prefer if I could make Dual boot work somehow, so if you could direct me to more detailed information about this specific issue I'd appreciate that.
That said, I am going to start all over for, I don't know the 10th+ time with only 1 ssd with only one partition. And if I ever get that to work I'll try dual boot again.
That said, I am going to start all over for, I don't know the 10th+ time with only 1 ssd with only one partition. And if I ever get that to work I'll try dual boot again.
Re: How to optimize windows 10 for Scope to avoid clicks and pops!?
petal, if you do, try removing the NVMe SSD completely and use a "standard" SSD plugged into a SATA port, see if that helps. The NVMe SSD going in and out of low power mode was the problem for me, and some/most NVMe SSDs don't seem to be configurable on that front.
Re: How to optimize windows 10 for Scope to avoid clicks and pops!?
i'm not saying that dual boot is the problem.
i am saying that i have seen files loaded from the wrong partition.
as to the nVMe drive, i cannot imagine how that would be needed as a system drive. old pata drives were fast enough to be a C: drive.
sometimes theoretical advantages are not actual advantages.
i am saying that i have seen files loaded from the wrong partition.
as to the nVMe drive, i cannot imagine how that would be needed as a system drive. old pata drives were fast enough to be a C: drive.
sometimes theoretical advantages are not actual advantages.
Re: How to optimize windows 10 for Scope to avoid clicks and pops!?
So, as long as I have the different Windows installations on seperate single partition SSD's/HDD's it should be ok?
(It all boils down to the fact, that I use the computer for different things: Music, work, gaming, casual whatever, but I do understand the importance of keeping the music installation focused and clean, which is why I'd like bual boot to work.
I can go the separate machine route, and I even have all I need to do it, but I'd prefer not to unless I really have to
As I said earlier, it starts with pleasing Scope, everything else is secondary)
Anyways, the NVMe sure is fast. Can't really figure out if it is well suited for a DAW situation like ours though, or even not recommended.
I have been looking into if it was possible to change the "power mode plan" of my Samsung NVMe 970 EVO SSD. Unfortunately, it doesn't seem to be the case. A bit of a shame that I can't try this out, because it does have at least 5 different power-mode states and I don't like those "Exit out" numbers:
https://www.anandtech.com/show/12670/th ... d-review/8
About the dual boot situation. I will try out a single boot/partition situation on the NVMe first and see if that solves the problem.
If that doesn't work, I'll try the same on my SATA SSD, and see if that makes any difference.
And if that doesn't work, I'll set up my old i875 computer once again. That I know used to work under windows 7.
If that doesn't work either, I'll throw it all out the window (I live on the 11th floor) and begin to play the kazoo instead.
(It all boils down to the fact, that I use the computer for different things: Music, work, gaming, casual whatever, but I do understand the importance of keeping the music installation focused and clean, which is why I'd like bual boot to work.
I can go the separate machine route, and I even have all I need to do it, but I'd prefer not to unless I really have to
As I said earlier, it starts with pleasing Scope, everything else is secondary)
Anyways, the NVMe sure is fast. Can't really figure out if it is well suited for a DAW situation like ours though, or even not recommended.
I have been looking into if it was possible to change the "power mode plan" of my Samsung NVMe 970 EVO SSD. Unfortunately, it doesn't seem to be the case. A bit of a shame that I can't try this out, because it does have at least 5 different power-mode states and I don't like those "Exit out" numbers:
https://www.anandtech.com/show/12670/th ... d-review/8
About the dual boot situation. I will try out a single boot/partition situation on the NVMe first and see if that solves the problem.
If that doesn't work, I'll try the same on my SATA SSD, and see if that makes any difference.
And if that doesn't work, I'll set up my old i875 computer once again. That I know used to work under windows 7.
If that doesn't work either, I'll throw it all out the window (I live on the 11th floor) and begin to play the kazoo instead.
Last edited by petal on Sun Apr 26, 2020 10:30 pm, edited 2 times in total.
Re: How to optimize windows 10 for Scope to avoid clicks and pops!?
it's never a good idea to do everything on one drive anyway. the NVMe must surely be good for samples. i'd record audio to a magnetic drive. they're just more trustworthy, and are often recoverable in case of failure.
yes, even with different OSs on each partition, you could end up loading files from the wrong partition, especially if the wrong drive's name is C:. same file system format...
yes, even with different OSs on each partition, you could end up loading files from the wrong partition, especially if the wrong drive's name is C:. same file system format...
Re: How to optimize windows 10 for Scope to avoid clicks and pops!?
You confuse me now?
As long as I keep the two Windows installations on seperate disks, dual boot should be ok?
As long as I keep the two Windows installations on seperate disks, dual boot should be ok?
Re: How to optimize windows 10 for Scope to avoid clicks and pops!?
It's your computer, but Gary is trying to help and simplifying things is the best past forward when having issues.
Separate computers is always much simpler than dual booting, fwiw.
Separate computers is always much simpler than dual booting, fwiw.
Re: How to optimize windows 10 for Scope to avoid clicks and pops!?
So you are saying that both my computers are bad?
or do you mean: "it's your computer, you can do with it what you want".
If it's the latter, I know this. I thought I was simplifying things by using dual boot in order to keep things separated.
Let me make it clear once again: making a click free system is first priority, and I have been aiming to simplify things to avoid trouble. I apreciate all the help I can get! That using dual boot could lead to clicks is news to me. I used it to avoid them.
or do you mean: "it's your computer, you can do with it what you want".
If it's the latter, I know this. I thought I was simplifying things by using dual boot in order to keep things separated.
Let me make it clear once again: making a click free system is first priority, and I have been aiming to simplify things to avoid trouble. I apreciate all the help I can get! That using dual boot could lead to clicks is news to me. I used it to avoid them.
Re: How to optimize windows 10 for Scope to avoid clicks and pops!?
I meant the latter, of course. It's your machine to do with as you wish AND to live with the results. You selected the components and deal with the burden of making it work. How much better though that there's people here willing to participate in that process with you, no? 
In regards to dual-boot, GaryB is in the position of having to play tech support for these systems (though noone pays him to contribute his knowledge & experience on these forums!) Perhaps his aversion to dual booting and other esoterica is due to having to troubleshoot systems where these extra variables have caused issues in the past? All of that was contained in my previous statement...
And I'm willing to help as far as I am able, but sadly the final burden is on each person present. I have the following computers here:
For each system I've built that housed Scope, I made getting the DSP cards working my primary concern and handled the sharing issues FIRST.
In the era of seeing BIOS IRQ maps and needing to resolve sharing on this level, I would use pause/break to manually map out IRQ/MEM hole sharing issues often before even installing an OS. Booting to liveCD's or USB sticks (depending on era) also helped here, or you can just go with a very minimal Windows install and accept that you may blow this one up in testing/tuning things. 1997-2008 this took the better part of a day, as I was usually juggling a few other required peripherals (even if onboard) around to get to where I was happy. For most of that era the IRQ & later the APIC controllers were still separate implementations within the chipset, and would 'build upon' the previous states in a way that meant if you resolved sharing on the level of what the BIOS sees when it first boots (before the APCI/ACPI steering takes over) you could be assured of resolving conflicts.
Fast forward to today, and modern EFI boards handle IRQ/ACPI allocation in a way that leaves little room for 'manually' changing the resources or even knowing how things will change when we swap slots. In addition the way that the ACPI/APIC mapping is handled has changed so much under every modern OS (linux/bsd/windows) that we're now reliant on going the windows install path and looking in System Information and using 3rd party tools to identify potential issues, as we've covered on these forums quite a bit. It's also worth noting that the situation in regards to sharing resources has improved immeasurably as there really isn't any NEED to take manual control either. Still, it's worth sitting down and mapping out slot sharing on paper and I'll still spend a few hours managing this stuff on a current system. And since I may soon move my Scope cards back into a modern system to save on power (vs. performance) and heat I look forward to running that system through its paces again soon.
In any case it's at this point I'll make an OS image that's my "base known-good" install and start to put my basic DAW tools and etc in place, and then test them completely as I go (and then re-image again once done). Only when this is done to my liking do I worry about installing all of my extra software and plugins, and considering my build final. In all of the above cases I have achieved no clicks, though I did once add a BNC card to my Scope system to deal with occasional clicks over ADAT with longer cable runs and an older soundcard on the other end that's no longer present.
Now even if I were to include all of the additional machines I built for myself and others back to the early 90's, I'm sure Gary's experience still dwarfs mine when it comes to resolving conflicts with builds.
In regards to dual-boot, GaryB is in the position of having to play tech support for these systems (though noone pays him to contribute his knowledge & experience on these forums!) Perhaps his aversion to dual booting and other esoterica is due to having to troubleshoot systems where these extra variables have caused issues in the past? All of that was contained in my previous statement...
And I'm willing to help as far as I am able, but sadly the final burden is on each person present. I have the following computers here:
- 1x Dual Xeon (2001 Prestonia) with 3x 32bit & 2x 64bit PCI slots - works just fine with Scope *right now*.
- 1x Dual Xeon (2008 Harpertown) with 2x 32bit & 2x 64bit PCI slots - worked just fine with Scope cards in the past.
- 1x AMD AM3+ socket / FX-8370 system with 2 32bit PCI slots - worked fine with Scope cards but limited PCI bandwidth
- 1x AMD AM2+ socket / AMD Phenom II X4 820 (yes AM3 in an AM2 socket) with 2 32bit PCI slots - better PCI bandwidth than the AM3+ machine that replaced it (my daughter games on this now)
- 1x Intel Socket 1155 Sandy Bridge / Q67 Supermicro C7H61-L-B LGA1155 - Adequate PCI bandwidth (but was replaced by the next system and the Scope cards went back into my 2001 era machine when I did this upgrade)
- 1x Intel 8700K (Coffee Lake) / Z370 with no PCI slots of course, so no Scope
- 2x (classic) Mac Pro 3,1, 2x Macbook Pro (2008 & 2012), 2x iMac -- none of these are suitable for hosting Scope but work perfectly alongside it! Note the iMacs are now in use by family members...the Mac Pro's truck right along for my DAW usage.
For each system I've built that housed Scope, I made getting the DSP cards working my primary concern and handled the sharing issues FIRST.
In the era of seeing BIOS IRQ maps and needing to resolve sharing on this level, I would use pause/break to manually map out IRQ/MEM hole sharing issues often before even installing an OS. Booting to liveCD's or USB sticks (depending on era) also helped here, or you can just go with a very minimal Windows install and accept that you may blow this one up in testing/tuning things. 1997-2008 this took the better part of a day, as I was usually juggling a few other required peripherals (even if onboard) around to get to where I was happy. For most of that era the IRQ & later the APIC controllers were still separate implementations within the chipset, and would 'build upon' the previous states in a way that meant if you resolved sharing on the level of what the BIOS sees when it first boots (before the APCI/ACPI steering takes over) you could be assured of resolving conflicts.
Fast forward to today, and modern EFI boards handle IRQ/ACPI allocation in a way that leaves little room for 'manually' changing the resources or even knowing how things will change when we swap slots. In addition the way that the ACPI/APIC mapping is handled has changed so much under every modern OS (linux/bsd/windows) that we're now reliant on going the windows install path and looking in System Information and using 3rd party tools to identify potential issues, as we've covered on these forums quite a bit. It's also worth noting that the situation in regards to sharing resources has improved immeasurably as there really isn't any NEED to take manual control either. Still, it's worth sitting down and mapping out slot sharing on paper and I'll still spend a few hours managing this stuff on a current system. And since I may soon move my Scope cards back into a modern system to save on power (vs. performance) and heat I look forward to running that system through its paces again soon.
In any case it's at this point I'll make an OS image that's my "base known-good" install and start to put my basic DAW tools and etc in place, and then test them completely as I go (and then re-image again once done). Only when this is done to my liking do I worry about installing all of my extra software and plugins, and considering my build final. In all of the above cases I have achieved no clicks, though I did once add a BNC card to my Scope system to deal with occasional clicks over ADAT with longer cable runs and an older soundcard on the other end that's no longer present.
Now even if I were to include all of the additional machines I built for myself and others back to the early 90's, I'm sure Gary's experience still dwarfs mine when it comes to resolving conflicts with builds.
Re: How to optimize windows 10 for Scope to avoid clicks and pops!?
if both disks with both OSs are in the same computer, then both partitions can read each other. they are not truly separate.
it's not complicated. dual boot systems CAN be a pita, but that depends on a lot of things. if both partitions have the same applications, it's probably not the best idea, especially when using the partition that is not called C:. programs are often written to default to the C: drive.
i don't see any reason to stress over my answer. i am not saying that it is wrong to uyse a dual boot system, just that it CAN make problems for you.
i guess it's a question of what your purpose is. if it's playing with the computer, than dual boot might be great. if it is music and getting music done, then dual boot is probably an unnecessary complication.
btw-i defer to valis' experience with computers in general, to mine.
it's not complicated. dual boot systems CAN be a pita, but that depends on a lot of things. if both partitions have the same applications, it's probably not the best idea, especially when using the partition that is not called C:. programs are often written to default to the C: drive.
i don't see any reason to stress over my answer. i am not saying that it is wrong to uyse a dual boot system, just that it CAN make problems for you.
i guess it's a question of what your purpose is. if it's playing with the computer, than dual boot might be great. if it is music and getting music done, then dual boot is probably an unnecessary complication.
btw-i defer to valis' experience with computers in general, to mine.
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rhythmaster
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Re: How to optimize windows 10 for Scope to avoid clicks and pops!?
I from my side have to say that it is a sad story with Soniccore/XITE-1/clicks and pops.
I have given up on that about 1,5 years ago buying a Focursite Scarlett Soundcard just to make music easyly without dealing with all this stuff you posted in this thread.
This clicks and pops started slowly when I upgraded to WIN 10 64 Bit about 3,5 years ago. I used the plugins und synthesizers of Soniccore as well as 3rd party plugins. I've waited 10 years for SCOPE 7 that I could use SB-404 again also.
Would have been worth the the long time but the clicks and pops ended my 18+ years of using Creamware/Soniccore Hardware.
It's a sad story. I still have my Luna/Pulsar and of course the 3000 Euro XITE-1 currently silently collecting dust.
I hope some day I can return to use my gear without those clicks and pops. But currently it is impossible.
I have no time to experiment with different PC hardware and stuff.
I have given up on that about 1,5 years ago buying a Focursite Scarlett Soundcard just to make music easyly without dealing with all this stuff you posted in this thread.
This clicks and pops started slowly when I upgraded to WIN 10 64 Bit about 3,5 years ago. I used the plugins und synthesizers of Soniccore as well as 3rd party plugins. I've waited 10 years for SCOPE 7 that I could use SB-404 again also.
Would have been worth the the long time but the clicks and pops ended my 18+ years of using Creamware/Soniccore Hardware.
It's a sad story. I still have my Luna/Pulsar and of course the 3000 Euro XITE-1 currently silently collecting dust.
I hope some day I can return to use my gear without those clicks and pops. But currently it is impossible.
I have no time to experiment with different PC hardware and stuff.
Re: How to optimize windows 10 for Scope to avoid clicks and pops!?
Clicks & pops with an Xite won't be due to PCI bandwidth issues.
Re: How to optimize windows 10 for Scope to avoid clicks and pops!?
Dual boot is best setup when you are setting up a new system from scratch, and you have 2 x physical SSD (each w/- own boot sectors and independently formatable) so you can boot into each one separately from BIOS (without boot manager) and do your installs from scratch on each one.petal wrote: ↑Sun Apr 26, 2020 12:13 pm I'm a curious person Gary and I'd prefer if I could make Dual boot work somehow, so if you could direct me to more detailed information about this specific issue I'd appreciate that.
That said, I am going to start all over for, I don't know the 10th+ time with only 1 ssd with only one partition. And if I ever get that to work I'll try dual boot again.
This is probably better than trying to 'retrofit' dual boot into an already working system (which you don't want to fiddle with and accidentally break) and on one physical drive. At least with 2 physical drives there's less chance of one filing cabinet interfering with the other.
Re: How to optimize windows 10 for Scope to avoid clicks and pops!?
The multi-boot method you are describing (thank you for pointing this method out to me), where you boot each installation/disk up from BIOS (without using the boot manager) is exactly what I'm doing now. I even disable each of the other system installations I have in the pc.
Now I have three completely fresh installations of windows 10, fully updated and optimized per the recommended guidelines:
One on the new NVMe-SSD,
one on the normal SATA-SSD
and one on a spinning platter HDD.
Unfortunately it made no difference. They all act the same and I still have the exact same clicks as before. When I use the SCOPE ASIO driver i get clicks on both the PCI-cards and the XITE regardless of the ULLI-settings.
I have an elektron RYTM which can act as a soundcard with an ASIO driver. When I use that Elektron ASIO driver I have a click free system.
Dante. If I recall correctly you have a current z390 installation. Did you do anything in the BIOS or in Windows beyond the normal recommended optimization in order to get a click free system? And is your Windows SCOPE-installation fully updated with all the newest updates?
Now I have three completely fresh installations of windows 10, fully updated and optimized per the recommended guidelines:
One on the new NVMe-SSD,
one on the normal SATA-SSD
and one on a spinning platter HDD.
Unfortunately it made no difference. They all act the same and I still have the exact same clicks as before. When I use the SCOPE ASIO driver i get clicks on both the PCI-cards and the XITE regardless of the ULLI-settings.
I have an elektron RYTM which can act as a soundcard with an ASIO driver. When I use that Elektron ASIO driver I have a click free system.
Dante. If I recall correctly you have a current z390 installation. Did you do anything in the BIOS or in Windows beyond the normal recommended optimization in order to get a click free system? And is your Windows SCOPE-installation fully updated with all the newest updates?