PCI Overflow Problem

An area for people to discuss Scope related problems, issues, etc.

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Marco
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Re: PCI Overflow Problem

Post by Marco »

I never understood the drifference between all These Drivers, is this the Right one I am using? cubase 10 pro....win10 64 bit
I use VST 1 but cubase 10 has vst 3 ??? And what is float souce/dest???
:wink: out and about for music production. Are you still configguring your Studio :lol: music first!
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Marco
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Re: PCI Overflow Problem

Post by Marco »

Did it! No good result. 4 Masterverb PCI Overflow with one Card in the PC. After adding the 5. Masterverb, I could not start the soundcard working with Music Output.

Next I do is check the bios Settings......and test….
:wink: out and about for music production. Are you still configguring your Studio :lol: music first!
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Marco
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Re: PCI Overflow Problem

Post by Marco »

I checked the bios, and there was AI tweak tool to overclock activated. After deaktivating I can load up to 6 masterverbs. But I know, there are guys here having 8-9 masterverbs :cry:

I try changing my Card into an other Slot. It's now in #1. I doubt, this will be useless. :( #1 is normally the best ???
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garyb
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Re: PCI Overflow Problem

Post by garyb »

it depends on what the slot is sharing irqs with, but all three slots should work well.

yes, that is a pretty poor result. z97 motherboards are usually much better than that. perhaps it's defective...

based on the AI overclock setting, there may be improper settings. do you have the latest bios?

btw- the masterverb test should be done in an EMPTY project. only masterverbs should be there.

i use ASIO2 or ASIO2 float source with an ASIO2 destination. the source and destination modules must match. those are all just different driver options. some DAWs may prefer one or another, but it matters less these days than it once did.
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Marco
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Re: PCI Overflow Problem

Post by Marco »

ok it is a z87-k
Is this to old BIOS version? I know im more a musician as a PC specialist. But I don't know how to Update :-?
Asus froced me to Register....before getting my bios update....grrrr hate that!
The Windows Defender says the bios is a virus :evil: no no no! cant pull it out of the qarantäne.....grrrrrrrrrrrrr
ok i have now only downloaded an not started, omg im not a Computer specialist…...it try to install the bios, hope my god it works……... :wink:
P
But I have updated the Network and graphic Driver but this had no use, but wtf I did it...
:wink: out and about for music production. Are you still configguring your Studio :lol: music first!
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Marco
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Re: PCI Overflow Problem

Post by Marco »

I did the BIOS update, but the Performance is not better. :-? :-? :-? I am at the end of all my dreams with this PC.
Why cant i unistall V7 and install V5? I wanted to check if my Card is the Problem. But I think the ASUS shit is shit. I give up wasting my spare time for the sonic core shit!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! :oops:
I have changed one card into All pci 3 ports, but nothing helps!

I am at the end of all my ideas. :-? :-? :-? A Dream has died today ! My heart is broken - broken dreams. All possibilities are tried out now, shit.
Last edited by Marco on Thu Aug 01, 2019 1:42 am, edited 2 times in total.
:wink: out and about for music production. Are you still configguring your Studio :lol: music first!
David
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Re: PCI Overflow Problem

Post by David »

nice tunes
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Marco
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Re: PCI Overflow Problem

Post by Marco »

thx DAVID. Today no more tunes, my lust is blown away by all the Computer shit. Im disappointed now. Im going out into the sun, enjoy my life, not wasting my time anymore with PCs and the sonic core Cards. Maybe going to buy a working RME raydat, working technic and moderne.
:wink: out and about for music production. Are you still configguring your Studio :lol: music first!
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Bud Weiser
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Re: PCI Overflow Problem

Post by Bud Weiser »

Marco wrote: Wed Jul 31, 2019 10:16 pm ok it is a z87-k
Your pics aren´t informative at all.

in german:

Mach´ den masterrverb Test. Leeres Project und soviele Masterverbs wie möglich laden.

Mach´n Screenshot davon,-
und auch noch Einen vom geöffneten Gerätemanager > Ansicht-Tab > Ressourcen nach Typ > Interuptanforderung
Das zeigt Dir sämtl. IRQ sharing.

Wenn Du das gelistet auf dem Bildschirm siehst, drück "Druck" auf der Tastatur (oben rechts neben [F2]).
Das Bild ist dann in der Zwischenablage ...
Starte das Zubehör-Programm "Paint" und kopiere das Bild mittels [Strg]+[C] in das Zeichenfeld von Paint und speichere es als .jpg.
Dann lade es hier hoch (nachdem Du es entspr. verkleinert hast).
Danach können wir Dir sagen was Du deaktivieren kannst.
Geht´s dann immer noch nicht, hast Du evtl. ein mainboard Problem


Gary says z97 works well w/ legacy PCI cards and z87 should do the same (or better) ´cause it´s older.

IIRC, Dante has/had a z87 system running SCOPE (5.1 ?) 64 Bit, PCI and XITE1-D in the same machine successfully.
AFAIK, that was an ASUS mobo too.
There was a Scoperise article ...

The fact you own a premium ASUS mobo doesn´t mean it´s working correctly.
My former system builder had 2 new ASUS Maximus Hero failing.
S##t happens !

but up to now it´s only guesses.

Bud
Last edited by Bud Weiser on Thu Aug 01, 2019 4:49 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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garyb
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Re: PCI Overflow Problem

Post by garyb »

z87 is also VERY good.

yes, it's a possibly defective board.

if many others work, but yours does not, it's a defect. these things are not random.
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garyb
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Re: PCI Overflow Problem

Post by garyb »

btw- i am not a computer savant. my knowledge is practical since i have a studio and the computer is an important part.

the Scope cards are almost 20 years old. still, they work correctly in the correct environment. if that is too much trouble, then scrap them. the reason an RME might work where the Scope card does not is because of TIMING. since Scope is REAL TIME and the computer is NOT, any delay in the system will create havoc. it's not about theoretical bandwidth or maximum bandwidth. if the data cannot be delivered in time, it will not work. if the PCI controller chip does not work correctly, a soundcard might still work, as a soundcard does not care about timing and latency(Scope cards are NOT Windows soundcards, they are NOT controlled by the host app).

i get kinda tired of people with broken computer systems(SYSTEMS) blaming the Scope card or software. if the computer works correctly, Scope works correctly, at least as correctly as Windows does. there ARE bugs, as every software application in the world has bugs, but it absolutely works.

this is why i say Scope is not for everybody. heck, most people aren't knowledgeable enough about REAL studio techniques to even take advantage of the things that Scope can do. those who can, however, won't be satisfied by a stupid Windows Soundcard.

if all you want to do is stack up a bunch of vstis, you don't need Scope.

if you want to integrate real hardware and the computer, and use hardware-quality processing, then you do need Scope. if this is the case, then put the cards into a computer that works. how much were those 20 year-old cards? how much does a working computer cost?
nebelfuerst
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Re: PCI Overflow Problem

Post by nebelfuerst »

Since I learned about the "masterverb"-test, I tested most of my mainboards. ( about 5 different boards). All boards ran with more than 10 masterverbs, the best one did 15. ( Even on crappy old boards with a P4-CPU)
I also own an RME card ( Digi96/8), because It has linux drivers. This card didn't work in one PCI-slot of my P7P55D-boards. Scope didn't show a problem. Nevertheless the PCI-slots don't seem to be absolutely identical on all boards. So this PCI-slot might also handycap the scope at some point.

The easiest way would be to buy an old mainboard, which is reported to be combat proven in this forum.

Beside the famous "masterverb test", I would appreciate some more "robustness" tests to check a newly built system to be ok.
Are there "stresstests" for scope-setup beside the masterverb-one ?

There is nothing more frustrating when you get the illusion of working equipment and experience errors/crackles within musical flow.
But if it workes well : Always Backup, Never change the running system.
\\\ *** l 0 v e | X I T E *** ///
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Marco
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Re: PCI Overflow Problem

Post by Marco »

Thank you for your honest Partizipation! I was really deeply frustrated to see that a really important part of my studio should be broken.

But when you say that the z87-k Board is a really well known good Board, I will see this as a big Chance in solving this difficult desease I have had with my scope.

I didn't make to much music the last 5 years, because I renovated my house. Now I play again, and the first I had to do Was fixing the f**King issue with the anoying pci Overflow message.

Noone needs to explain me, that rme is a boring soundcard with just a Hand full of functions, I can count with my fingers. But everyone says, it works....

I have now changed one card into All pci slots, but everywhere the same issue. I Look now, if the card is sharing any IRQ. Why have they changed the Look and menues in Win10? Im searching....
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valis
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Re: PCI Overflow Problem

Post by valis »

IRQ sharing won't show up the way it used to, as you have to disable ACPI (in BIOS, and set the Windows HAL to MPS Multiprocessor rather than ACPI Multiprocessor) to be able to see shared IRQs that way. Generally speaking a modern Win10 system SHOULD have ACPI on, and it shouldn't prevent problems.

If sharing is the issue, it's more likely on a modern system to be with the driver than the IRQ sharing specifically (see below for DPC Latency testing). Disabling onboard devices you don't use can mitigate this somewhat...

To summarize the issues we see with our Scope cards in modern systems, they largely come from:
- improperly configured systems in general. In your case, simply updating the BIOS isn't a magical fix. It may or may not have even reset the BIOS back to default settings, but it certainly won't know the 'optimal' settings for a Scope system (they tend to set the defaults for either stability or gaming purposes...)
- other drivers not 'playing well' with the system (stealing too much time from the CPU), this can be seen via DPC Latency checkers like LatencyMon
- Scope cards being old (you seem to have 3, and have tested each in turn, correct?)
- Defective hardware (mentioned)
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garyb
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Re: PCI Overflow Problem

Post by garyb »

by the way, i am NOT talking about an RME being bad or even "boring".
an RME card is a soundcard. Scope is not. it does things that other cards cannot do. the downside of that is that the computer needs to work correctly.

i would say it's about 90% certain that the motherboard you have does not work correctly. it would be the PCI and PCIe controllers at fault. those systems might work just fine with a soundcard, since soundcards do not require realtime operation. the problem is NOT the z87 chipset, in genral.
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Bud Weiser
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Re: PCI Overflow Problem

Post by Bud Weiser »

Marco wrote: Thu Aug 01, 2019 10:34 am
Noone needs to explain me, that rme is a boring soundcard with just a Hand full of functions, I can count with my fingers. But everyone says, it works...
RME is excellent gear and drivers are top notch and stable,- but it´s different from SCOPE.

As Gary said,- SCOPE isn´t a Windows soundcard ...

RME isn´t too (in the sense of Soundblaster or Codec-Chip),- but acts like one,- offering excellent drivers and DSP based hardware monitoring (TotalMix) and excellent analyzing software (DigiCheck).

It´s great to have both, ´cause RME concentrates on native DAW recording and SCOPE is an excellent standalone multi-purpose tool w/ some "disadvantage" by nature,- p.ex. doesn´t allow changing buffer settings w/o reboot.
But that´s the price for realtime operation.

OTOH, when the machine is fast enough, changing buffer settings might be obsolete,- at least for recording when set up right before recording starts.
Using tons of VST plugins and the need of lots of polyphony for native VSTis is a different story as is the neccessity for 64Bit sytems in general.
I say even I need polyphony always because I´m a keyboardist, but I also know it´s matter of cache and not Bits.

In fact, for audio, you don´t need 64Bit,- you only need it to move on w/ software manufacturer´s development and when using the big sample libraries or VIs based on such.
Well, I´m using these too meanwhile and even I prefer hardware.

I myself, I´m also urgently waiting for SCOPE 7.1 because I wanna use everything on just only 1 64Bit-machine,- but I´m also willing to run 2 machines,- probably 3,- SCOPE PCI, SCOPE XITE and RME ... until we´ll see such update.
But yeah, it would be nice to have all in harmony in just only 1 machine w/ only 1 "soundcard", preferably XITE-1, multiclient drivers, updated devices etc..
I´d also LOVE to see a SCOPE version allowing usage of SCOPE PCI and XITE w/o the need installing 2 different SCOPE versions on the same machine,- or a SCOPE Linux version (for standalone operation),- just to get rid of Mickysoft terrorism.
But it´s all dreams.

:)

Bud
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Bud Weiser
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Re: PCI Overflow Problem

Post by Bud Weiser »

garyb wrote: Thu Aug 01, 2019 5:17 pm by the way, i am NOT talking about an RME being bad or even "boring".
Ha, you beat me while I typed .

:)

Bud
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Bud Weiser
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Re: PCI Overflow Problem

Post by Bud Weiser »

valis wrote: Thu Aug 01, 2019 2:57 pm IRQ sharing won't show up the way it used to, as you have to disable ACPI (in BIOS, and set the Windows HAL to MPS Multiprocessor rather than ACPI Multiprocessor) to be able to see shared IRQs that way.
maybe I mistake your comment,- but when going into device manager > view > ressources by type > IRQ (interupt) request ...
IRQ sharing should be shown w/o changing anything in BIOS,- no ?
I hope I described that right because I´m on a german OS,- thats´s why I explained for Marco in german in former post and just only for the case he might need such explanation at all.

:)

Bud
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Marco
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Re: PCI Overflow Problem

Post by Marco »

:o Wow this community works! Scope roit!
Thank you guys. I have ordered another exact same type of motherboard. If this is the solution, then we make a Party!
:wink: out and about for music production. Are you still configguring your Studio :lol: music first!
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garyb
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Re: PCI Overflow Problem

Post by garyb »

well, i hope it does.
my assessment is based on what i can read here. i have certainly been wrong in the past. i would really like to be right on this one.

next step-teamviewer....
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