HP xw4600 very hot

[Seegurd]

Hi,
I purchased HP xw4600
Intel Core 2 Quad CPU Q9550
RAM Kingston KTH-XW4400E6 4G
Nvidia Quadro FX570
power 460W
for my 3PCI Pulsar2+Pulsar2+Pulsar1

computer is quiet, works fine by itself, without cards,
when I insert the cards, the computer goes crazy,
very hot, the fans work without interruption
when I took out the cards, they were so hot that I was afraid that they were burned
but thank god everything went well



STDM connection
______________ 1-----2
____________________
slot 1 - Pulsar2 - X ----X
_______________|____|
slot 2 - Pulsar2 - X ----X
________________\ __|
slot 3 -Pulsar1 - - -X__0


On the other pc AMD, the cards work fine, no problem ,
but there I have 2 pci and 2 Pulsar 2


What could be the problem? And how to fix it
all separately works excellent, but together it's crazy )

OS windows 7 64 on both pc
Scope 5.1

[garyb]

blocked airways/air filter?

[Seegurd]

blocked airways/air filter?

no, full ventilation
the side cover of the case was open
but the cards are very close, one on the other

I used to not pay attention, but the cards are really hot
What is their working temperature?

maybe I'm in vain panicking and just need to replace the fan?

[garyb]

they DO get hot, but it sounds like the PC fan isn't working well.

i have 3 cards in an xw4400, which is really the same computer. i have no issues, so it shouldn't get super hot.

[next to nothing]

The cards themselves handles heat quite well. There are a couple of things to consider:

1. Since the PC is "old" and has been shipped to you, the minimum thing to check is that the CPU cooler is properly seated. I would really recommend to apply new thermal paste between the cooler and the CPU.

2. Airflow. Heat will not accumulate if you have a proper air flow. If it's only one chassis fan (i guess one on the back) i would consider making space for one in front (i guess there is a lot of stuff there taking up space you don't need) to make an airflow from front to back, passing the CPU cooler. Be sure the front fan actually gets air supply, do some modifications if needed

When you say the PC "goes crazy", do you just mean the fans spin up, or do you get crashes, graphics problems or similar?

[cortone]

Good suggestions about the heatsink and fresh paste. More info about how the computer is behaving is helpful.

Like NTN says, an intake and an outtake fan should be the minimum for that many cards. Leaving the case open actually reduces the air flow because the cover isn't helping to force the flow directly across the components. If you haven't tried it, see what happens when you put the cover on. There's a chance it will help if the heat is a function of the main board or processor overheating. If you are getting blue screens or other failure types, that's at least a part of what is happening.

It sounds like you may need to add an intake fan to direct air between the cards. That hot air will need a place to exit, maybe by removing unused component slot covers at the back near the pulsar cards, or venting the case above the cards. Cool air in and over, hot air out.

[Bud Weiser]

1.
Since the PC is "old"..., the minimum thing to check is that the CPU cooler is properly seated.
... apply new thermal paste between the cooler and the CPU.

Bingo ! The very 1st I´d do when getting a used machine !
I´d think about replacing the CPU cooler too ...
Thermal paste: "Arctic Silver" is what I use when building PCs.

2. Airflow.[/quote]
You never know where the machine comes from.
Nicotine and dust is an adhesive and agressive mix for electronic components ...
I´d replace all fans existing !
My choice is "NB" ... "Noise Blocker" ... since many years and they never disappointed.



Bud

[Seegurd]

When you say the PC "goes crazy", do you just mean the fans spin up, or do you get crashes, graphics problems or similar?

only funs

[garyb]

with the side off, the computer will get hotter than with the side on, unless the intake or output vents are clogged.

[Seegurd]

with the side off, the computer will get hotter than with the side on, unless the intake or output vents are clogged.

yea, thanks garyb, now put in place

Thanks guys for the valuable advice.
Installed while 2 Pulsar2, 2 hdd, normal flight.
drive a couple days... realy it maybe need to do pc prevention

[Seegurd]

3 cards 1 stdm connector - work great
replaced battery
set the side panel

room temperature 25° C, when less than 20-22 pc is not heard at all
the system fan works quietly until 2000 rpm, but after - starting to make noise, especially closer 3000 rpm.

What is better, replace system fun or install an additional front one? or wait for winter? ))
Does any 92 mm 4-wire high frequency PWM 12v fan is sutable?

[valis]

Depends on the noise, but push/pull is much better than just push (pull air in, push air out). Once you get that far and keep noise at a manageable level, people tend to get into discussions of positive vs. negative pressure (do you want to PUSH more air IN=POSITIVE, or SUCK more air OUT=NEGATIVE). Positive pressure, in theory, pushes dust out of every crack, whereas negative pulls it in.

Most server configurations, conversely, are LOUD and entirely negative pressure (massive arrays of small fans pulling through the 1U cases, which is why those configurations can use passive coolers on all internal components). From that you can tell that using that much airflow is both ideal from a passive cooling configuration, and conversely can be (again) rather loud.

So here's the balance point you're always going to be looking at for a DAW use: noise vs. acceptable thermals.

Now, it's also worth talking about Liquid Cooling, as this was the next step in managing thermals (or hitting higher "OC" settings) for many people. From a noise perspective however you're not actually *removing* fans in most cases here, simply moving them to the cooling block. However that can mean you can cool your CPU (for instance) with 2x120mm "higher static pressure" fans (more fins, more displaced air over the surface) and compare that with 1x90mm on your typical "stock" CPU cooler and you'll see this can improve both performance and decrease noise levels. That is, of course, if the water block is properly placed.

In your case you're probably ok looking at the CPU cooler and just figuring out if you have the ability to switch to a higher performing Noctua or something comparable, where you can have a 100-120mm fan and say 6+ heatpipes (copper, with a lapped block tends to be the bare minimum for acceptable performance, though each manufacturer will tout their solution as ideal). It's not hard to find reviews on such things, and for a Core2 Extreme (or just Core2Quad) era CPU you'll find a rather generous supply in the used market as well as new, and plenty of reviews to look at.

Good luck!

[garyb]

the xw series is pretty quiet when there is a good fan.
i would replace any overly noisy fans. a fan with a bad bearing might not cool too well.

[Seegurd]

valis, thanks for advice!

garyb , which fan will you advise? and what characteristics it should have?
in Technical Reference Guide - 92 mm 4-wire high frequency PWM 12v

[Seegurd]

and about irq
Is it normal that cards on Shared IRQ's?

[Bud Weiser]

and about irq
Is it normal that cards on Shared IRQ's?

Looks like you´d have to deactivate lots of (or as many as possible for your work) USB controllers in device manager and for IRQ #20,#21 and #22.
MS HD Audio om IRQ #21 is a canditate too.



Bud

[Seegurd]

and about irq
Is it normal that cards on Shared IRQ's?

Looks like you´d have to deactivate lots of (or as many as possible for your work) USB controllers in device manager and for IRQ #20,#21 and #22.
MS HD Audio om IRQ #21 is a canditate too.



Bud

I disabled HD Audio (Bios-Security-Device Security)
in bios all USB controllers set to IRQ 10. 11 and 5 ( Advanced - PCi Devices), it means they use these IRQ's or, all the same, 20. 21.22 ?

[garyb]

you cannot manually set irqs in windows.

[valis]

GaryB is correct, the modern HAL is ACPI and stacks most external i/o devices on 1-2 IRQs, and lets the APIC controller figure everything out below that layer.

On a technical level, those are basically "masking" interrupts, which map to low level interrupts in the (BIOS/EFI) APIC/ACPI layer but the OS calls the masked IRQ and allows the hardware layer (EFI again) to determine when a resource is free. Ie, they are REMAPPED to only a few high level IRQs, and you CANNOT control that side of things. This is really necessary on LATER generations (everything from Nehelem/Intel 2009 era onwards) as more and more of the system is managed directly in the CPU itself. You'll also find that disabling sleep states and so on for everything post Nehelem becomes more complex as well, as that was the year that the Power Control Unit was moved onto the CPU itself. This was a good thing however, for on a modern 8/9th gen Core (i) Intel CPU we have very few issues like we had back then with realtime i/o like low level stremaning-data audio & video performance.

In the *very* old days, hardware makers would simply publish slot/resource sharing diagrams in their manuals, but as more and more complexity has been introduced this is hardware to present in a simple table, so doing this yourself once hardware is installed is necessary. What I did on systems before the modern 'i' series (i3/i5/i7) such as yours, was DISABLE the ACPI controller in the BIOS and then boot into something that has ACPI disabled for an OS, and map out all the hardware sharing at that point. Again, you'll have a harder time finding an old enough OS to do this, but I still keep a few ancient Debian based Live CD's (and USB keys) around, plus the odd XP installer. Once you boot to a non-ACPI environment, it's simple to see what your card is sharing with, and move things around accordingly.

Once I have all that taken care of, I then set the BIOS *back* to ACPI mode, and begin my OS install. For any OS prior to Win10, your HAL (Hardware Abstraction Layer) is mapped out at this point (barring major hardware changes that will cause this to be rebuilt), and if you have isolated what interrupts are masking through to multiple devices as mentioned above, you will find you have much smoother performance. Win10 is flexible enough that you can actually rebuild the HAL at any time, and it will sort everything out. But that's not as relevant here..I simply mention it in passing as it not only makes restoring from a backup image easier, it also means it's much more tolerant to major hardware changes without needing a reinstall than prior Windows OS versions.

Pre-Scope 7 it was rather important to ensure that your PRIMARY Scope card (the first one in the DSP meter) was 100% free of sharing resources with anything, but I've seen GaryB report that this is less of a concern with V7. So I will defer to him on that point, but personally I still set my primary card in my cset.ini file once everything else is sorted out.

[Seegurd]

maybe in this way?
Pulsar2 (Primary) - IRQ 20
Pulsar2 - IRQ 21
Pulsar1 - IRQ 22

I have two USB devices that are constantly on - mouse and midi keyboard.
I can connect them to USB ports, that use IRQ 22, and 21, 20 will free.
other usb devices will connect as needed