Six String on Scope XITE 7 @ 96kHz max 2 voices before DSP capacity limit

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t_tangent
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Six String on Scope XITE 7 @ 96kHz max 2 voices before DSP capacity limit

Post by t_tangent » Thu May 03, 2018 9:11 am

So after reading the recent topics on working at 96 kHz, I thought I would configure my setup to try this out. I have some limitations with a couple of external effects unable to run at more than 48kHz, but I can work around that by either not using them or connecting via their analog I/0.

I have Scope PCI and Scope XITE connected at 96kHz. Both XITE and the Scope PCI cards are installed on the same DAW and are connected to each other by ADAT. I am using S-MUX module on Scope PCI, and as there is no S-MUX module on Scope XITE, using ADAT A module worked once I had selected S-MUX A on Scope XITE Samplerate Settings window. I have tried out a few things and it does seem to work ok at 98kHz so far with a few limitations, so will need more testing.

But I noticed that on Scope XITE both the Six String and Six String V5 devices only allow a maximum of 2 voices before I get a DSP capacity limit window popup. To check it wasnt the system iteself I removed Six String and loaded up BlueSynth, Easysynth, Lightwave, Poison, Prisma, Minimax, and Prodyssey, and set several of those to 4 voices and they all loaded up and played back no problem.

So my question is whether Six String is optimised for XITE or not. I guess not, which is annoying since it was one of the devices I transferred over to Scope XITE from my Scope PCI cards when I first bought the XITE on the pretext that XITE would take over from the PCI cards. So could Six String be added to the list for XITE optimisation? Anyone else using Six String on XITE have 2 voice limit? I will double check this at 48kHz to see if it makes any difference and will update if any change.

Cheers for any feedback

Edit: Just checked Six String v5 on Scope 7 XITE @ 48kHz and I can get 7 voices before DSP capacity limit. So guess at 96kHz some devices require more resources. I think another good reason for me to stick to 48kHz unless trying something specific. Comments welcome :)

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petal
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Re: Six String on Scope XITE 7 @ 96kHz max 2 voices before DSP capacity limit

Post by petal » Thu May 03, 2018 12:12 pm

Yes, going 96Khz will double your DSP resource needs. Maybe the single most important reason to consider, if you really need that almost unnoticeable fluff of air ;)

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t_tangent
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Re: Six String on Scope XITE 7 @ 96kHz max 2 voices before DSP capacity limit

Post by t_tangent » Thu May 03, 2018 5:35 pm

Yes, so it seems. I guess Six Sting must use a lot of dsp or require a lot of SAT connectionss, especially when compared to all those other devices I was able to load up together and play at the same time with several of them set to 4 voices, without a problem. But I was wondering if Six String could be or has been optimised for Xite, and if not perhaps it could be added to the list for optimising.

I'll have a closer look at 96kHz when I have more time but for now 48kHz will have to do :)

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Re: Six String on Scope XITE 7 @ 96kHz max 2 voices before DSP capacity limit

Post by dante » Thu May 03, 2018 6:45 pm

Did you try manual DSP assignment ?

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Re: Six String on Scope XITE 7 @ 96kHz max 2 voices before DSP capacity limit

Post by t_tangent » Fri May 04, 2018 3:29 am

Hi Dante,

Yes I did try manually assigning to a few different dsp's to see if that would allow for more than 2 voices, but it didnt work. I reckon it needs optimising for xite. Thanks for the idea though. Might have another look later to see how many voices I get in an empty project with no other modules loaded other than midi in and audio out.

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Re: Six String on Scope XITE 7 @ 96kHz max 2 voices before DSP capacity limit

Post by Bud Weiser » Fri May 04, 2018 12:38 pm

t_tangent wrote:
Fri May 04, 2018 3:29 am
Hi Dante,

Yes I did try manually assigning to a few different dsp's to see if that would allow for more than 2 voices, but it didnt work. I reckon it needs optimising for xite. Thanks for the idea though. Might have another look later to see how many voices I get in an empty project with no other modules loaded other than midi in and audio out.
Damn, I hate reading your reports because I planned buying Sixstring for XITE-1 somewhere this year,- but now I´m careful !

Bud
CFD,- the studio standard :wink:

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Re: Six String on Scope XITE 7 @ 96kHz max 2 voices before DSP capacity limit

Post by yayajohn » Fri May 04, 2018 4:35 pm

@44.1 I have never gotten more than 8 voice max on Six String on the Xite-1 no matter where you place them and how many times you optimize. Did not change with Scope 7 from my tests.

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Re: Six String on Scope XITE 7 @ 96kHz max 2 voices before DSP capacity limit

Post by t_tangent » Fri May 04, 2018 4:57 pm

Sorry about that Bud, I dont mean to put people off buying devices. XITE has been noticably optimised with the Scope 7 update, but Six String itself may not have been optimised yet. Also as noted earlier, I get a more reasonable number of voices from this device when at 48kHz samplerate compared to 96kHz, but I might get a couple more if I were to offload other modules, etc. I havent done that much testing yet, but also note that I run XITE and 3 Scope Pro PCI cards on one PC so this could possibly affect some devices that require a lot of internal DSP connections. Not quite sure how but one never knows. Hence why I asked if anyone else who has Six String licenced to their XITE to try it out and let us know, as it could just be my setup. Anyway I will let SC know and see if it is somthing they can look into, and I would suggest maybe you contact Gary and ask for a Six String demo if he has available. Sorry I cant help more than that.

Thanks for the update yayajohn

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Re: Six String on Scope XITE 7 @ 96kHz max 2 voices before DSP capacity limit

Post by Bud Weiser » Fri May 04, 2018 5:44 pm

yayajohn wrote:
Fri May 04, 2018 4:35 pm
@44.1 I have never gotten more than 8 voice max on Six String on the Xite-1 no matter where you place them and how many times you optimize. Did not change with Scope 7 from my tests.
Thx for the info and confirmation !
I´d probably need 6 voices only because I want to use it for guitar type sounds w/ FX running into (also virtual) amps and being controlled by my Yammi KX-5.
But I´d not be satisfied it alone occupying my XITE-1.
Instead I imagined using it inside some larger project where some polyphonic synths, a sampler, vocoder, dynamics, FX, mixer and MIDI devices are loaded already.

Maybe it will need SCOPE v7.1, 7.5 or whatever making such scenario possible.

:)

Bud
CFD,- the studio standard :wink:

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Re: Six String on Scope XITE 7 @ 96kHz max 2 voices before DSP capacity limit

Post by Marco » Fri May 04, 2018 10:09 pm

:D I have a real 6 string guitar, this works without Windows and sounds really good. I have no problems. OK it is detuned sometimes ;)
Scope 7 user since 2017 and Scope user since 1998. :o

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Re: Six String on Scope XITE 7 @ 96kHz max 2 voices before DSP capacity limit

Post by garyb » Sat May 05, 2018 12:35 am

Bud Weiser wrote:
Fri May 04, 2018 5:44 pm
yayajohn wrote:
Fri May 04, 2018 4:35 pm
@44.1 I have never gotten more than 8 voice max on Six String on the Xite-1 no matter where you place them and how many times you optimize. Did not change with Scope 7 from my tests.
Thx for the info and confirmation !
I´d probably need 6 voices only because I want to use it for guitar type sounds w/ FX running into (also virtual) amps and being controlled by my Yammi KX-5.
But I´d not be satisfied it alone occupying my XITE-1.
Instead I imagined using it inside some larger project where some polyphonic synths, a sampler, vocoder, dynamics, FX, mixer and MIDI devices are loaded already.

Maybe it will need SCOPE v7.1, 7.5 or whatever making such scenario possible.

:)

Bud

i think that can be done now.

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Re: Six String on Scope XITE 7 @ 96kHz max 2 voices before DSP capacity limit

Post by yayajohn » Sat May 05, 2018 2:52 am

garyb wrote:
Sat May 05, 2018 12:35 am

i think that can be done now.
That would be welcome of course :)
Well like most things in life, I have learned to work within the limits of the Xite and try to exploit it's strengths which are many. While Six String will always be criticized for it's precise guitar modeling by some, I've found it to be much much more than a physical modeling device.
I use it quite a bit on the Xite.

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Re: Six String on Scope XITE 7 @ 96kHz max 2 voices before DSP capacity limit

Post by t_tangent » Sat May 05, 2018 2:56 am

Yes, looking back at another post I made recently, http://forums.scopeusers.com/viewtopic. ... 94#p334594

I had 24 devices including 2 x six strings with 4 voices on each running all at the same time. So maybe maybe my earlier post in this thread might have had something wrong with the project or something. Strange.

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Re: Six String on Scope XITE 7 @ 96kHz max 2 voices before DSP capacity limit

Post by Bud Weiser » Sat May 05, 2018 3:57 pm

Marco wrote:
Fri May 04, 2018 10:09 pm
OK it is detuned sometimes ;)
That´s why I didn´t call ya up to now ...

:D

Bud
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Re: Six String on Scope XITE 7 @ 96kHz max 2 voices before DSP capacity limit

Post by Bud Weiser » Sat May 05, 2018 4:15 pm

garyb wrote:
Sat May 05, 2018 12:35 am

i think that can be done now.
thank you, good news if true.
Did you try it ?
I´d be fine w/ Win whatever 32Bit and SCOPE v7.x 32Bit for the time being.

:)

Bud
CFD,- the studio standard :wink:

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Re: Six String on Scope XITE 7 @ 96kHz max 2 voices before DSP capacity limit

Post by Marco » Sat May 05, 2018 6:35 pm

:D I made a joke to make your day brighter. On pci the 6 string in scope works great. I use it as a synth, not as a guitar simulation... Real Guitars are to complicat, but. There are always some tastonauts coming up with a dream and play awesome stuff.!
Good luck with your xite.
Scope 7 user since 2017 and Scope user since 1998. :o

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Re: Six String on Scope XITE 7 @ 96kHz max 2 voices before DSP capacity limit

Post by garyb » Sat May 05, 2018 8:55 pm

Bud Weiser wrote:
Sat May 05, 2018 4:15 pm
garyb wrote:
Sat May 05, 2018 12:35 am

i think that can be done now.
thank you, good news if true.
Did you try it ?
I´d be fine w/ Win whatever 32Bit and SCOPE v7.x 32Bit for the time being.

:)

Bud

i'm sorry. at 96k?

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Re: Six String on Scope XITE 7 @ 96kHz max 2 voices before DSP capacity limit

Post by Bud Weiser » Sun May 06, 2018 5:05 pm

garyb wrote:
Sat May 05, 2018 8:55 pm

i'm sorry. at 96k?
No,- 44.1 or 48k ...

Shocking for me was yayajohn´s post above ...

"@44.1 I have never gotten more than 8 voice max on Six String on the Xite-1 no matter where you place them and how many times you optimize. Did not change with Scope 7 from my tests."

While already 6 voices were enough for me for the purpose I have in mind,- playing guitar- type and bass sounds w/ a modelling device thru amp sim(s) vs. samples,- it were unacceptable when 8 voices already maxed out XITE-1, just only because I´d want several more synths, FX, a mixer, MIDI tools and possibly also a vocoder and a sampler in a large(er) project for keyboard work.
I´d avoid the complex ZARG synths in such project because they react slower when receiving MIDI program changes and run w/ very limited polyphony,- at least in SCOPE 5.1 on my WinXP machine.
So,- I prefer using SCOPE stock and S|C optional synth devices,- and Sixstring IS such device,- the last S|C device I don´t own up to now.

:)

Bud
CFD,- the studio standard :wink:

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Re: Six String on Scope XITE 7 @ 96kHz max 2 voices before DSP capacity limit

Post by Bud Weiser » Sun May 06, 2018 5:45 pm

Marco wrote:
Sat May 05, 2018 6:35 pm
:D I made a joke to make your day brighter.
I know,- me too !
Marco wrote:
Sat May 05, 2018 6:35 pm
On pci the 6 string in scope works great. I use it as a synth, not as a guitar simulation...
I own a PCI card, but the future is XITE and XITE as a rack-unit is more portable.
Marco wrote:
Sat May 05, 2018 6:35 pm
Real Guitars are to complicat,
It don´t has to be real.
I just only want a string model and experiment with.
With keys, I like doubling real guitars, riffs and arranged lines,- or do quasi layouts when I arrange/compose,- and when the tune is good enough and worth the fuss,- I call a guitar player for the final track(s).
But I also like soloing w/ the expressivity of distortion/ overdrive and pitchbend.
I used my DX7mkII and some Chandler and Rocktron gear to do so, but I want it in SCOPE and expect a string model to be more effective than Yammi FM.
It will be less noisy in addition.

I hate playing guitar samples w/ keys because I know very well it doesn´t sound right at all.
Marco wrote:
Sat May 05, 2018 6:35 pm
Good luck with your xite.
thx !

:)

Bud
CFD,- the studio standard :wink:

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Re: Six String on Scope XITE 7 @ 96kHz max 2 voices before DSP capacity limit

Post by garyb » Sun May 06, 2018 5:49 pm

the XITE isn't maxxed out. it's maxxed out on SixString voices. you can run plenty of other stuff as long as you don't use more than about 6-8 voices.

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