very very OT but also very very mission critical... tweeter

kensuguro · Post by **kensuguro** » Mon Oct 01, 2001 5:24 am

Well, it happened.. I monitor final mixes on a Yamaha NS-200M (old, OLD 200watt 3way that's been out of production for a long time) and after 4 years of hard labor, the tweeter on the right speaker left for a "better" place for musical devices...

Anyway, that's that. I'm seeking advice as to which monitors to switch to. I already have a pair of 10M's but mixing low ends on those are simply impossible. So I'm looking for something with fairly honest lows. I really do wonder how you all compensate for near field monitor's bass inconsistancies.. Is this just a problem with 10M? Or do some nearfields get it right?

I do a lot of hiphop, R&B, funk and house so the bassline-bassdrum balance is very essencial... or at least the way I do things. But whatever it is, my mixes can't bear with exaggerated bass since alot of them end up in clubs or stages (ie. LOUD!) So I really can't settle with a near field + sub woofer combo..

I don't know.. what do you all think? Too OT? Any bass freaks out there? I'm desparate for help! It almost feels as if someone took out my right eye! (speaker) I'm really sorry though.. I know it's off topic.

paulrmartin · Post by **paulrmartin** » Mon Oct 01, 2001 5:25 am

Huh, sorry but what does OT mean?

kensuguro · Post by **kensuguro** » Mon Oct 01, 2001 5:27 am

af far as I know, it means off topic
(wow, FAST reply!)

paulrmartin · Post by **paulrmartin** » Mon Oct 01, 2001 5:33 am

Thanks. I get lost in all these initials...
Fast reply back!

Paul

subhuman · Post by **subhuman** » Mon Oct 01, 2001 8:53 am

Check out Genelecs, Mackies, and Events...

kensuguro · Post by **kensuguro** » Mon Oct 01, 2001 9:04 am

you're right... I mean, I already checked them out and they're in my "maybe" list.

From Genelec, I'm looking at
1029 I've heard these and they sound OK... as opposed to being great.
1030 I hear rumors about these being great... but too expensive.

From Event
20/20 bas I hear rumors about good bass.. Probably my best choice so far. Looking for opinions from people who've worked with them.
PS series It doesn't seems like it's built for bass freaks. It's only my guess. Any one had experience with this series?

Anyway, thanx for your advice though... I thought I'd get ignored...

subhuman · Post by **subhuman** » Mon Oct 01, 2001 9:33 am

Your best bet is to bring a variety of sound material (CDs) that you know well, and that demonstrate the frequency response.

(WARNING PERSONAL OPINION)
Some people swear by the Mackies. When I A/B'd them with the Events, the Mackies to me sounded like they colored the sound more, and had a more "candy coated" sound. The Mackie highend was more tiring to my ears.

The Events 20/20bas (the ones I prefer out of all their lineup, but I don't think they are made anymore) are what I ended up with, I really prefer the silk-dome tweater. They seemed to be the most ACCURATE between these, and the Mackies, even if they don't sound as complimenting to the audio. The Events tell it how it is, whether you want to know, or not.

I didn't get a chance to try the Genelecs. From everything I've read, they sound like the monitors I'd choose if I were to buy again today. Of course, I'm glad I didn't hear them, as they're a little expensive, and I may have ended up spending more on monitors that I need to right now

I haven't heard the PS8s, but I have read that they are pretty close to the 20/20bas, only made for smaller studios (less watts). I would think the PS8's would be a good choice, if you can't find a pair of 20/20bas for a good price.

Kurosawa · Post by **Kurosawa** » Mon Oct 01, 2001 1:49 pm

Hi, I've got the 20/20 bas as well. I didn't really A/B them against anything else - but I did like the bass response from them. At the moment I don't have them in the best listening environment, but they still appear to sound o.k. (this is not to say that they'll compensate for really bad accoustics!).
Cheers.

lov 43 · Post by **lov 43** » Mon Oct 01, 2001 3:47 pm

Hi There
Try out KRK V6's,or if you can stretch to them,the V8's.I find there response very true and uncoloured,with the bass end plentiful yet correct!

Lov 43

marcuspocus · Post by **marcuspocus** » Mon Oct 01, 2001 5:12 pm

I did A/B LOTS of monitors before buying, and the best 2 of them, to MY ear was realy the genelec 1030 and the events PS series.

Genelec as a very clear high, but almost no BASS! They recommend having their sub with it, which is worst then. Cuz of reflection etc...

I did buyed the Events PS8 (8" bass) and silk tweeter.

I liked their response better than Genelec(flater than Genelec) but it is a matter of taste a bit i think.

The things i didn't like about the Genelec was :

1- The high was a bit irritating after a while, too crisp, almost metalic

2- The price... They are TRIPLE the price of the Events

Things a liked about Genelec :

1- the possibility to have optonal AES/EBU Digital input

2- high frequecy (i know, it's contracdictory, but highs were clearer when searching some details)

Thing i didn't like about Events :

1- No 110/220 volts auto swith, so you have to change the internal power supply when you change continent (maybe you don't need this features but i did, a work 1 year in Canada, and 1 year in France, 1 year in Canada, etc...).

2- No digital input, but 1/4" jack or XLR balanced input.

Things a liked about Events:

1- VERY VERY precise bass response, even down to 20hz!

2- Much more pleasant to the ears, less 'metalic hi pitch).

3- Flatter response on paper (completely flat from 20hz to 20,000khz)

4- More rugged, i meen, Genelec seem build like little toys compared, Genelec seemed fragile compared to Events.

Hope this shed some light in your search!

Ciao!

_________________
Marcus Pocus
The king is ALIVE!

[ This Message was edited by: marcuspocus on 2001-10-01 18:19 ]

algorhythm · Post by **algorhythm** » Mon Oct 01, 2001 5:42 pm

i have EVENT 20/20BAS - i make d 'n b mostly, but acoustic stuff (jazz er whatever) - the bass is excellent, and they work well at low monitoring levels. i recommend them.

Mr Arkadin · Post by **Mr Arkadin** » Sat Oct 06, 2001 10:09 am

I would always recommend PMC speakers(Professional Monitor Company). The new TB2s look very good and are very flat and unlike the NS10s (burn'em, please) they do not fatigue the ear over long sessions. Their speaker stands are a bit expensive but do add some great weight to the bottom end without a sub bass unit. There is also a (quite expensive) sub unit available, but I would probably trust the TB2s on their own for optimal 'flat' mixing.

[ This Message was edited by: TonyR on 2001-10-27 05:45 ]

[ This Message was edited by: TonyR on 2001-10-27 05:47 ]

Funktastico · Post by **Funktastico** » Mon Oct 08, 2001 4:36 am

How about the Event PS6?
They seem to be well priced for my budget but are they any good?

Toni L.
http://www.mp3.com/NativeAlien

horrn · Post by **horrn** » Mon Oct 08, 2001 8:28 am

hi,

if you need really phat basses though as you´re mixing lots of synths an sub-bass-related devices it´s always nice to buy at least a cheap active-subbass-monitor-cabinet like i did... it´s always nice to have much more bass like i ever will need to use... but if you´re handling it via a extraoutput you can handle that much you need ...

be sure you have listened to special cd´s with much bass first ... it´s tricky to have a subbass but you get the 30 hz which are so bad for the neighbours hifimonitors then ...

that active bassmonitor i bought only costs about 120 dollars (euros) or something like that and he is doing his job ... he has phaseinverting, a seperate volume and variable crossoverfrequency ...

try something like that!

good luck

t.

marcuspocus · Post by **marcuspocus** » Mon Oct 08, 2001 8:39 am

On 2001-10-08 05:36, Funktastico wrote:
How about the Event PS6?
They seem to be well priced for my budget but are they any good?

The same qualities of the PS8, but 6" bass speakers instead of 8" bass speakers.

With PS6, you can go down to 30hz, PS8 go down to 20hz.

I've tryed them also, but the price difference is so small, that i've chosen the PS8, for more bass.

kensuguro · Post by **kensuguro** » Mon Oct 08, 2001 9:40 am

Wow, I'm suprised at how big this thread is getting.. It's good. Very usefull for everyone looking for monitors. I mean, what good is any synth/mixer without a pair of good monitors...

Anyway, I'm happy to hear that some of the monitors can do well at sub-bass level. But again, I'm still not comfortable with using sub-woofers.... I think they're super fine to compose on.. ya know, to get high on your own basses... but then, to mix on them is a different story. Or I think it's just me. I've learned my monitors to the bones and maybe that's why I think sub-woofers are hard to work with. It could be just a matter of getting used to.

Just out of curiosity, are there any heavy Mackie users out there?

Funktastico · Post by **Funktastico** » Mon Oct 08, 2001 11:19 pm

Actually you can get a pair of PS6's for less than the price of one PS8 at http://www.thomann.de

(PS6 pair price: 812.95 EUR -- PS8 price for one: 966.34 EUR )

That's why I'd like to know whether or not the bass response on PS6 is accurate enough for dance/techno production. I don't like the idea of a separate subwoofer - I could imagine the pain of finding the "sweet spot" (a place where you can hear all the frequencies right).

I'd also like to know how PS6's compare against Genelec 1029's because they're about the same price.

Thanks

Toni L.
http://www.mp3.com/NativeAlien

[ This Message was edited by: Funktastico on 2001-10-09 01:08 ]

Post by **garyb** » Wed Oct 10, 2001 9:44 am

you know,none are perfect.just get something of good quality and then learn it.(better to KNOW YOUR speakers than to have the "best") also low end is not as difficult as you think on a small monitor.(although a sub which can be switched in is helpful for checking your work)just look for a good balance high to low.when a big system is used for playback, there'll be plenty-o-bass.

Post by **garyb** » Wed Oct 10, 2001 9:53 am

oh yeah,DON'T mix on three way systems.the crossover causes phase problems and in a threeway the mids are sandwiched between two crossovers. just mix at lower volumes with a two way.because of the way the human ear works,we hear more bass as the volume increases.therefore, a mix with good balance at a low volume GAINS bass as the volume increases, but a mix done at a high volume LOSES bass as the volume decreases.in the seventies, many engineers doing rock were new to the biz and mixed very nice albums at very high volumes,hence the "loudness" button. most pros have figured this out now,hence the disappearance of the "loudness" button on many newer stereos.

JoeKa · Post by **JoeKa** » Wed Oct 10, 2001 3:41 pm

I own a pair of Quested F11 and a Quested VS1112 subwoofer, man, this is an earth-shattering airpump, you will never want something else once you´ve tried Quested systems, believe me. The Yamahas sound like a poor plastic radio against these... crunchy to the very edge of what you can take, and a bass so deep you do not need to hear it, you´ll just feel the vibes in the whole room, even if you´re on low to mid volumes. Once I tried out turning them up to approx 2/3 of max, still having the gains on the monitors themselves lower than half, and just after 2 seconds a bunch of CDs and letters where shaken down from my working table... any questions?