Best mobo and cpu combo

PC Configurations, motherboards, etc, etc

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garyb
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Re: Best mobo and cpu combo

Post by garyb » Thu Jun 13, 2019 6:01 pm

use either ASIO2 or ASIO2 float.
bit depth will be determined by the ASIO host. generally, use the highest bit-depth available. there's no real gains to be made by using a lower bit-depth. bit-depth is more important than samplerate.

yes, a 15dsp card might be first generation, the Luna is second gen. the master card is not an issue in v5 or especially v7.

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Re: Best mobo and cpu combo

Post by @plonter » Fri Jun 14, 2019 9:04 am

Hi

I want to sure a theory, at first i need to know if a PCI-Overflow being triggered by the Asio module?

If the answer is yes or the biggest trigger to PCI-Overflow then i can take this "RME digiface usb" and use it as Asio driver and send 32 ch via ADAT..

Is it sound good as i think ? in terms of PCI Bandwidth?

Also an update, i less often receive the PCI-Overflow message, the last one was when i disconnected cables form the Asio module to Mixer ??!! module.

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Re: Best mobo and cpu combo

Post by @plonter » Fri Jun 14, 2019 1:00 pm

Hi Gary

I read an old post from you in our forum about a way to determine Scope/sp 15 DSP gen, you wrote..

"you can look at manufacture dates, but if the card has a z-link, Plus or Classic20 i/o plate, it's almost certainly a 2nd gen card. if iut has a 24ADAT or was converted from a 24ADAT plate, then it's almost certainly a 1st gen card."

My box says "Plus" see photo :)
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garyb
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Re: Best mobo and cpu combo

Post by garyb » Fri Jun 14, 2019 4:31 pm

probably second generation.

no, the ASIO driver is not the cause. a bunch of reverbs might.

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Bud Weiser
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Re: Best mobo and cpu combo

Post by Bud Weiser » Sat Jun 15, 2019 3:50 pm

@plonter wrote:
Thu Jun 13, 2019 3:18 pm

1 - As i understand there is some issues with 1st gen PCI card along with 2st gen.
AFAIK you can test if it´s a 1st or 2nd gen card.
Remove the other DSP cards from computer,- use your 15DSP card only and try to get it down to 7ms in ULLI.
Already when you get it below 13ms, it should be a 2nd gen. card.

My 15DSP card (Classic I/O) worked flawlessly w/ 7ms @ 44.1K in a super outdated Intel Pentium IV "northwood" 2.8GHz /Win XP SP2 machine.
Mobo was ASUS P4T-E w/ 2GB of Rambus RAM. :lol:
But that was SCOPE 4.5.

Meanwhile I retired the machine and the card will go into my now "oldest" computer,- socket 478 Intel Pentium dual core D945 and WinXP SP3,- which is still able to run SCOPE 5.1 as also SCOPE 7.

:)

Bud

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valis
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Re: Best mobo and cpu combo

Post by valis » Sat Jun 15, 2019 4:32 pm

That CPU runs rather hot, maybe declock it a tad :)

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next to nothing
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Re: Best mobo and cpu combo

Post by next to nothing » Sun Jun 16, 2019 7:06 am

First of all, if you have had it up and running on this motherboard, you should be able to get it up and running again. I would only install the 15dsp card, and rather expand when you get that up and running... if you do.

Second, The H310 Chipset is generally a VERY weak/cheap chipset that should be avoided in my opinion. Even with the "TUF" branding, it is very limited. It has limited number of PCIe lanes and CHipset high speed IO lanes. Its basically a cheap, cut down system more suiyable for general office work and light gaming.
A positive attitude may not solve all your problems, but it will annoy enough people to make it worth the effort.

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Re: Best mobo and cpu combo

Post by @plonter » Sun Jun 16, 2019 8:49 am

Hi next to nothing

I believe i'm up and running now, last error message was DSP limit reach and if would like to optimize the project so i did and all ok after that :)

As for the H310, i'm all ears for a better configuration even if it means to step back in CPU gan but won't step back from 3 PCI ports for my 3 PCI cards :)

Can you please recommend a Motherboard + CPU?

Looking forward to your reply :)

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Re: Best mobo and cpu combo

Post by fraz » Sat Jul 27, 2019 6:36 am

next to nothing wrote:
Sun Jun 16, 2019 7:06 am
First of all, if you have had it up and running on this motherboard, you should be able to get it up and running again. I would only install the 15dsp card, and rather expand when you get that up and running... if you do.

Second, The H310 Chipset is generally a VERY weak/cheap chipset that should be avoided in my opinion. Even with the "TUF" branding, it is very limited. It has limited number of PCIe lanes and CHipset high speed IO lanes. Its basically a cheap, cut down system more suiyable for general office work and light gaming.
Yes it is cut down but it has 3 x PCI slots - 4 x SATA 6 Gb/s - & 1 x M.2 GEN2 PCI-e @ x2 = 10 Gb/s so could still be used to record audio with SSD etc.......Maybe RAID is NOT possible.

If 3 x PCI is needed then it is an option

If VRM's on the board are possible issues then i5 8400 / 8500 could be used - which are close to 4790 K performance. Asus have an H370 board (INTEL) with 2 x PCI slots and more PCI-e lanes (20 ???) maybe 16....(but more than H310).

The Scope PCI card owners may not always need 3 x PCI slots but if someone only has 3 x 6 DSP PCI cards = 18 DSP where as 2 x 14 DSP = 28 DSP more use-able and only using 2 x PCI slots.

https://www.asus.com/Motherboards/TUF-H ... /overview/

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Re: Best mobo and cpu combo

Post by valis » Sat Jul 27, 2019 4:49 pm

Needs & workflows may differ. Take me, I use Scope as a sidecar machine now to several other machines and so 3x PCI with modern SATA3 drives & an M.2 slot is more than I can probably even fill in that machine. In fact I would love to have such a machine with an i5 CPU where power & heat were as much of a concern as PCI performance, and could probably even get away with a 32bit OS if I really wanted to (only 4GB RAM installed).

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Re: Best mobo and cpu combo

Post by dawman » Sat Jul 27, 2019 5:36 pm

Actually the i3 8350 is what I was going to upgrade to from an i7 4790k.
Then I forgot I had another ASRock H97 matx and 4790 I bought in 2015.

I’m not going to upgrade until the dust settles from the AMD Vrs. Intel battle of ‘19.

AMD is a monster because of the large cache they chose to use.
If Intel matched that cache or doubled to 16MBs on a Quad they’d whoop AMD.

Intel knows that more cache makes any bad predictions (that wastes IPC) return quicker instead of returning from RAM.
Our apps are not made of great coding yet, it’s much better than 10 years ago but still sloppy compared to CGI and even Games. So when we experience artifacts that’s not from buffers being too small it’s cache related.

A couple AMD DAW guys tell me their polyphony @ 3.8GHz is better than their i7 7700k.
That’s that big ass cache.

If Intel doesn’t fall inline with my expectations that 3700X @ 59C stock looks great.
It actually runs faster using high quality fast DDR4 too.

4790k only gags when I layer 3 x EPianos that rival the balls of an old TX816.
And that’s random and uncontrollable, hardly noticeable though.
And it never shows up as a spike on the CPU, nor is it a buffer.

Cache damn it.
Give us more or lose our cash. No pun intended.

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Bud Weiser
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Re: Best mobo and cpu combo

Post by Bud Weiser » Sun Jul 28, 2019 12:22 am

dawman wrote:
Sat Jul 27, 2019 5:36 pm

AMD is a monster because of the large cache they chose to use.
If Intel matched that cache or doubled to 16MBs on a Quad they’d whoop AMD.

Intel knows that more cache makes any bad predictions (that wastes IPC) return quicker instead of returning from RAM.
... when we experience artifacts that’s not from buffers being too small it’s cache related.

A couple AMD DAW guys tell me their polyphony @ 3.8GHz is better than their i7 7700k.
That’s that big ass cache.
...
Cache damn it.
Give us more or lose our cash.
:D

Well, it´s true cache matters for polyphony, but up to now we had to buy the server procs and mobos to get WAY more cache.
The quad core desktop-proc w/ 8MB cache is a good compromise for most we do IMO.
Intel´s target is shrinked die and less TDP.
Large cache needs lot of power and produces heat,- that´s why they avoid in desktop- and especially mobile processors and leave it for the servers.

I´ve found the i3 8350 tempting too until I recognized it has a higher TDP than i74790K.
Do you get more out of the i3 compared to the i74790K and if yes, is it because of DDR4 ?

:)

Bud

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Re: Best mobo and cpu combo

Post by dawman » Sun Jul 28, 2019 12:45 pm

Haven’t used one, but a couple live guys from the old Receptor era build boxes with them and don’t worry about heat or TDP because they drag along a desktop case with extra cooling.
They run @ 4.4GHz for more Diva Filters.
They came from i7 2600k and the other i7 3770k and they say it showed a good bump up in power.
When they told me the i3 I laughed as I’ve been indoctrinated by numbers not even considering 3 or i5.

But I just don’t need all these core’s.
PTeq, Omni, Zebra2 and Kontakt, even when layered never go past 50%.
So a Quad with 16GBs cache is what I’m holding out for.

I’ll be looking at 3’s and 5’s too now that I know the numbers are no biggie.

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Bud Weiser
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Re: Best mobo and cpu combo

Post by Bud Weiser » Sun Jul 28, 2019 5:10 pm

dawman wrote:
Sun Jul 28, 2019 12:45 pm

... a Quad with 16GBs cache is what I’m holding out for.

I’ll be looking at 3’s and 5’s too now that I know the numbers are no biggie.
Well, 15MB L3 cache only w/ Intel i7 hex-core models for socket 2011-3,- i7-6850K p.ex..
Costs 417,- EUR actually, should be cheaper in he US.
But w/ 140W TDP max., it´s not for a 1HU build.

And yes, I always look at the i5s because we find ´em p.ex. in Lenovo laptops.
Lenovo didn´t ditch PCIexpress card 34 slot in "workstation" laptops and I have not given up the idea using a laptop for SCOPE standalone and running a handfull VSTis in addition,- we´ll see.

:)

Bud

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Re: Best mobo and cpu combo

Post by haba » Wed Jul 31, 2019 1:00 pm

Hello micmac34, after reading about your experiences I bought the Asus H310 tuf gaming board and I guess I have burned my CPU too. No signal on the grafic card, no sound, no bios. The board lights up, the fan powers on but nothing else happens. I was using a I5 9600K processor. I guess I will buy a cheep processor too for testing like you did...maybe the board is really a killer board:-)?
Haba

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valis
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Re: Best mobo and cpu combo

Post by valis » Wed Jul 31, 2019 4:04 pm

RAM fully seated? Extra CPU 4/8 pin power connected to motherboard?

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Re: Best mobo and cpu combo

Post by haba » Wed Jul 31, 2019 5:37 pm

Thank you Valis. Sadly yes and yes. Have tried with two Ram then with one...tried an graphic card too...nothing. May be I should try a new motherboard first...

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Re: Best mobo and cpu combo

Post by valis » Wed Jul 31, 2019 9:22 pm

Might just need a BIOS update to get that cpu working, shows it as 'validated since BIOS version 1405'. That board originally shipped with 8-series CPU support which was BIOS version 0222. Current BIOS version is Version 2416. So from 0222 > 1405 > 2416, lots of changes.

There are some Celerons in the supported list for this board that would give you the ability to do boot-testing and try a BIOS flash (then return the celeron, as you're unlikely to hurt it as long as you avoid Metallic Thermal Paste):

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Re: Best mobo and cpu combo

Post by haba » Wed Jul 31, 2019 11:17 pm

Again, thank you valis. The bios suport I better might have considered before bying. I am using ARCTIC MX 4 4g 2019 theraml past. Ia that ok? regards, haba

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Re: Best mobo and cpu combo

Post by garyb » Thu Aug 01, 2019 7:56 am

i think he is just suggesting that the seller might not want to take back a dirty processor.

i use contact cleaner(with no lubricant!) to remove all thermal paste when changing a cpu....

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