Scope 6 does not exist

[JoPo]

Hi, I'm currently considering an XITE-1 system, and I can tell you that from an outsider's perspective, it's very kind of unclear what Scope is. I had to get a lot of help here, which was great, but I bet many people just look at the price and vague description and move on. Inversely, Native Instruments does an amazing job letting people know what Reaktor is does and sounds like. IMO, Sonic Core's biggest issue isn't it's hardware or software, but it's ability to communicate. There should be some basic tutorial videos on the main pages of all their products, software and hardware. There should be a lot of very high quality audio demos on each plug in. What you find on Youtube is very hit and miss, and even the good Sonic Core Soundcloud demos tell you nothing about what plug ins were being used to make the track

+1 !
This something I don't understand. But there is a long story with Creamware before....
But it's true : it's like SC doesn't want to become too famous ! The site is flat, nothing never happens and all about products are laconic. They have from far the best audio gear for pro or non pro and they whisper it by looking at their feet : they are so sorry about that.
And there is a very active community : amazing guys release regulary fantastic free plugins, complete modular modules collections but nobody know that except us ! This is just insane !
I'm convinced that if more people like us would know about SC products, they would save some money to buy some SC gear and take advantage of it but they don't know !
And that is reaching a frightening level ! SC could desapear very fast if they believe it's enough to sale products only to a small community that already has purchased all !

I'd like to nkow how many xite-1 they sale every month at the moment. I bet one counts it on one hand !!

[hubird]

+1

[jeezs]

The best audio platform the worst communication ever.
No word from anyone of sonic core?
Why?

[SilverScoper]

If you already know it's the best audio system, then what more do you need to hear ?

[JoPo]

If you already know it's the best audio system, then what more do you need to hear ?

We'd like to keep it alive ! Isn't it enough simple ?

I'm quiet sure SC could pay a salory to a guy who would just spend his days to promote SC products every where. I'm sure his work would help to sale at least 4 or 5 Xite-1 a month ! Enough (and even more for SC) to make his salory... And take more chances to keep alive and look to the future serenely and be back in front of audio stuff and not having enough Xite in stock to meeting demand !

it's incomprehensible.

[dante]

Not really. SC could do or spend on a zillion things that create liability but none more useful to the cause of building Scope 6 than just quietly cutting the code.

[SilverScoper]

+1. I'm sure Holgs has done enough marketing vs development to make that call better than anyone else.

[JoPo]

I just checked on the french 'audiofanzine' web site to see how much SC is present. Audiofanzine is the biggest french audio stuff site (I believe ! Dites-moi si j'me trompe !) Latest news are in 2012 from our Hurorula :
http://fr.audiofanzine.com/carte-son-ra ... 20459.html

There is my testimony about how good Xite-1 it is (2009) and another ecstatic one (2010). All are from users : nothing from SC ! I've found a topic about Xite in the forum (2012) with a guy who advices another one that has a mac and says : he is waiting for mac drivers since 2 years, send plenty of mails to SC asking for when mac drivers will be released and says he didn't get any answer (which is still amazing). The other guy seems to decide finaly to not buy an Xite.

This is sad.

No mention of SC promo like when they offer all Xarg synths for 99 € or other promo we had over the last years. All other audio stuff company inform audiofanzine each time they do anything (promo, new product, etc...)
No mention of new product since Xite-1 release ! If I'm not mistaken, it was in 2008 ! In 7 years, how many people started to make/record/produce music with his pc and don't know SC existence ? This is insane nowadays we have internet and the ability to reach the entire world easily ! Did you remember the mess when UAD release Appolo ?? I'm not wishing a comparable thing but at least something ! UAD Appolo is around 2000€ and an Xite-D 100 or 200€... Which one is the most powerful ? Xite-D from far ! But nobody knows !

Every body here, on Z agree SC, Scope and Xite or even PCI are fantastic, the best gear ; so, here, we preach to the converted, which is useless for SC health. A lot of super men made excellent work like Shark, Garyb, W_ellis, Mehdi, Roy, Peter and :
http://www.scopeportal.com/
Dante : http://www.hitfoundry.com
http://bcmodular.wikispaces.com/Home+Page
http://www.bcmodular.co.uk/forum/index.php
http://www.modularsynth.co.uk/index.shtml
http://www.cwmodular.org/
This is awesome, amazing, I don't know much other story like that ! Maybe Reaper ? But all this don't go much outside our small community, it remains amongst us. I'm NOT saying it's useless ! Understand me well ! I take advantage of their work every day I make music and they are the other reason I like Scope so much. But what would happen if more music producer like us would know SC / Xite exist ? They would vote for them in the election of the gods.

It's not Scope 6 that doesn't exist, it's almost SC !

[hubird]

+2

[tlaskows]

Hmm, not enough marketing maybe? I don't even remember how I found out about Creamware...

-Tom

[katano]

When I started using Scope back in 2002, I was simply looking for a "soundcard" which can do more than just play music. I wanted to record some stuff and needed a few IOs for cheap.

So where did I look, guess? Exactly, I had a look at my favourite online stores (thomann.de or musik-service.de back then), looked for pci audio interfaces within a certain price range and I found the Creamware Luna with the 2496 box which looked very promising. It wasn't magazines, it wasn't a forum, it was an online shop!

So tell me which shops sell our beloved product(s) these days???
It has no presence at all in the market, it's really sad

Cheers to that
Roman

[JoPo]

For me, it was around 1999 or 2000, it was 1 or 2 years I had a pc for music. I wanted a good sampler that goes into the computer. I went to a music shop un Paris and the guy was ecstatic about Creamware and I followed his advice by buying a Pulsar I.
If I go now in a music shop in Paris, maybe the seller will remember "oh yes ! The ooOOold Creamware stuff it was good that is the time I did not know yet how my shoelaces ! And you're telling me it still exists ! You're joking ! We are in 2015 !"...

Sad...

[garyb]

what's sad is the market itself.
it's run by children who hype the advantage of the latest software that sounds "just like" the original, but they never used the original. it's controlled by stupid people who think that the value of audio tools is measured in the number of upgrades. it's run by people who have more fun playing with computers than making music.

the magazines are gone. once we looked to magazines that were in every corner news rack for info on what was available. now forums of smart-ass little kids who are pretending to be important composers are the only source.

once, brick and mortar stores were the main place to sell a product and those had salaried people who used and knew about the products that they sold. now, it's just the cheapest online dealer who sells for margins that would and did put brick and mortars out of business. the small independent specialty shop is gone. once stores bought quantities of products that the staff liked and they had them in stock(i know because i spent 20 years in store sales). now, everything is drop-shipped from the manufacturer. the online source buys NOTHING and knows NOTHING. how can a business support itself like that?

once, the best place to record and mix was an actual studio, designed for audio, staffed by experts in audio. now it's a guy ion his bedroom. once, guys in bedrooms bought used stuff from those studios and learned the craft, now it's just how many pirated plugins will this processor support, and the user knows NOTHING about audio.

yes, it's hard to advertise and stock shelves these days. it is expensive as F&^* to keep inventory up and yet have to wait for sales, but that's how it works.

you want to know how all the great things will happen with Scope?
it's MONEY, period. well, MONEY or a heck of a long time.

will carping and complaining help?

F^%& NO, it WILL NOT. all that will happen is that new users will get scared and not buy and then the company will disappear.

if you like it, support it, or it will be gone. fortunately for Scope users, Holger remains committed to continuing, and work goes on.

many think thay know what is up or what would help, and they may be right. actually doing these things may involve obstacles that are beyond daunting. that's just reality. again, fortunately, Scope is already a wonderful thing. it can be better, for sure, but the actual product is still pretty phenomenal.

what is REALLY sad is that a guy in a shop would not be interested in audio gear because it's been around a while. what really good audio gear EVER goes bad? MiniMoogs, 1176s, RCA 44 mics, dBx 160s, Neve Pres, etc are all worth MORE than new. audio gear that is good NEVER gets better or worse, it's always good. there is NEVER new, better with good to great gear. there is only other. with Scope, there isn't even other. yes, there are flaws, but there simply isn't anything, including hardware that can beat an XITE-1's cost vs. performance. NOTHING. that is something to be a fanboy about, not a cynical guy.

[dante]

+1. We all know Scope is a word of mouth platform, but people seem to think the reason for that is because of things that SC are not doing.

I agree totally with GaryB, it IS all about $$. I, guessing since Holger has already been through insolvency he has good reason not to let himself fall into positions of liability because then he will be knee deep in paperwork and legality to do any development work.

So I say cudos for WHATEVER SC do for us IN THIER OWN way and support them for Whatever that may be and whenever !

Hey, there's a new concept - actually give lots of encouragement to the man Holger for what he is doing instead of bagging.

Unconditional support for the BEST AUDIO PLATFORM IN THE WORLD EVER !

How's that for being a fanboy ?

[katano]

Gary,

Even though I agree on most of your points, I don't see what's the whining about. Yes, we all live in this world of fanboys with toys in bedroom studios. But either you adapt, or you'll lose your business.

I just can't get my head around the fact that Scope, in my view, is so far superior than other platforms out there, but still isn't able to generate enough money to be able to move forward into a new aera.

So there MUST be a lack of something within Scope. And it's not lack of user support, that's for sure. I would buy 4 xites if I had the money and if I were a pro, but I'm not and I'll never will be... So I got a family instead and even had to sell my one beloved xite-1. However, I'm still a downgraded user and would buy a xite-light if there was one...

Just a few thoughts what's missing from my hobbyist point of view:
- lack of a real entry level xite, let's call it xite-light, reduced number of dsp, for about 500 Euro max
- lack of marketing and communication
- lack of online and online store presence
- lack of contemporary external control possibilities (i.e. OSC, iPad...)
- lack of an external hardware controller for the pros

And no, Scope 6 isn't on the list, because I don't need it to produce music.

This is not a rant, it's just stating the obvious from my perspective. I'm not moaning about a plugin which has a GUI error for years or the 15 year old samplers which of course can't keep up with todays OS and hardware. Scope is still the best audio platform out there and there's always a workaround for the little bugs. But there's no workaround for the big points stated above.

Yes, I can use Scope for the next 20 years on the same version and it will be still as good. Even if PCI/PCIe dies, I'll be able to run it on old hardware. But here's the crux: Scope doesn't work standalone like an old legendary synth or studio console, it will always need an interface, a pc, and drivers for the OS. And even this is the biggest advance, having a complete studio in hardware and be able to control it with software, it's also its biggest downfall, as you may want to move along with the fanboys and upgrade your OS from time to time.

Cheers,
Roman

[tlaskows]

Xite lite is out there, but it's old. It's called a Scope Pro 15 DSP

I have 3 of 'em!

-Tom

[Gaslight_Twilights]

I have a suggestion:
What if S|C set up something on their site, to make it possible to donate? How many of us are there here on Z? All the ones that complain about scope not having this or that, or that this needs to be fixed, etc, you would be able to make a difference here. If we contributed $10 a month each, which is really not a lot individually, even if 100 people did it, that would be $1000 that month to help S|C bring to reality what everyone is complaining about. Instead of bitching, we can help. If not, then please stop whining, those of you that do. If you really love S|C, you'll want to help them bring this to fruition.

[JoPo]

I am a guy who knews nothing about audio 20 years ago and started to make music in my bedroom with a pc because it was what I whished to do upon every thing else. And I learned how to do because I love to learn things that interest me deeply. And I'm sure a lot of the children who are learning now will do the same. A lot will give up too, fortunately ! And I'm still learning and I love Scope but new products too, like Omnisphere or Kontakt.

Scope run on computer and new stuff happens often in computer world and it's normal that a product that won't follow just a bit new possibilities in computers disapears slowly. Yes, money drives the world, especialy companies business ! A different wolrd would be much better, with money as just a tool, not a finality, I agree a billion time but there is the stupid reality principle.

I'm 47 and I don't like all young music especially rap or minimal techno.. But I know that the parents of my father called him stupid because he listened to jazz, he called me stupid cause I listened rock and electro... Platon said that young people was crazy... It's not a new story... I'm sure young people of to day are not more stupid than we were 30 years ago and if they realise what is Scope, they will be very interested, they just need to know it exists !

[garyb]

Jo, i agree. i never said that young people aren't cool.
i said that sometimes they pretend to know things that they don't, when they post on the internet.

money is money. it's not bad, it just is what is is. only a top level bank can make money out of nothing and then use it to achieve it's goals.

the cool things that katano would like are the reason that work started on v6. control protocols and new functions need new programming libraries. once v6 is done, then there should be money for other things. it should have been completed already, but the plans of mice and men...

at least v5.1 works with windows 10, so Scope hardware will be usable for quite some time to come.

of course new stuff is cool!!!


doesn't this cover the whole subject now?

[tlaskows]

Yes, young people are crazy. I have some nephews and they cannot live without their iPhones, iPad, Nintendos, etc. When I was a small kid all I had was a small set of lego

Oh, I'm 36 and love old music. The Beatles, Cream. All good stuff

-Tom