MSI Z87-G43 PCI performance fails compared to similar ASUS

[erminardi]

Strange behaviour: I was writing and the working Scope project (16 x Softclips Stereo, 16 x Delays Stereo, 4 x Masterverbs, 1x Optimaster, 1 x Reflector, 1 x Psyq) after 15 minutes gave me the PCI overflow!
Could be also a heating problem?
Could be the heat related to the Scope PCI performance? Any experience?

[garyb]

you don't have a first gen card do you?
if so, then it's working properly.

yes, it very well can be a cooling issue.

[erminardi]

you don't have a first gen card do you?
if so, then it's working properly.

yes, it very well can be a cooling issue.

Today I will try to put a big temporary (office) fan into open case in order to eliminate the doubt about heat.
Is there a way to discover without any doubt if the board is 1°gen or 2° ?
Here is no way to use only the Luna because I haven't the Scope key (still 3.1 for Luna!!!)
Should I count the DSPs? Serial number? Any design differences?

Thanks again Garyb

[garyb]

i wish i was more helpful...

are you sure it's a 14dsp and not a 15dsp? i know this is kind of a dumb question, but...

does the fan help?

[dante]

Is there a way to discover without any doubt if the board is 1°gen or 2° ?

Check your ULLI :

From Bud : Gen 1 cards don´t go below 13ms in ULLI,- Gen 2 cards can work w/ much lower latency.

[garyb]

not with a Luna card installed. with the Luna card, it will go all the way down to 1ms@ 96k

[dante]

If he disabled the Luna in device manager and restarted Scope with just the big card, would ULLI settings then be an indication ?

I thought ULLI ran to the slowest common demoninator in a multicard setup.

[erminardi]

Mh, it could be a 15 DSP.
I'm on workplace now so I cannot be sure, but if I well remember the DSP load panel on Scope 5.1 OS tells me a total amount of 18 DSP, so it's 15+3=18
Then the Scope could be first gen
I just realized now... what a stupid! I always kept this card as a spare part without realizing that.
Damn!

So I should buy another Scope Pro...

Anyway the ASUS is better than the MSI, with exactly the same system I can reach more stability.

[Immanuel]

As far as I know, there are at least three mayor versions of the big cards:

First generation 15 DSP cards with slow ULLI
Second generation 15 DSP cards with fast ULLI
"Second" generation 14 DSP cards with fast ULLI

[erminardi]

Basically I have to remove the Luna and check the available ULLI on settings panel, with Scope Pro only?

[garyb]

that's one way.

i can tell the difference between the first and second generation cards immediately, but i can't really describe what to look for.

the 14dsp and the gen2 15dsp cards are the same. Creamware just left a dsp off of the 15dsp cards to make the 14dsp cards, so they could save money on each card. the extra dsp was redundant anyway....

no Dante. the lowest ULLI is set by the newest card.

[erminardi]

Removed the Luna, but the ULLI still is available!

[erminardi]

No, there is something very strange!
1) open Scope
2) launch Cubase
3) create a new track
4) import a wav (4 minutes long)
5) put an insert with external effect to scope and return
6) open forexample Optimaster
ALL WORKS OK

then after 2-3-5 minutes of normal tweaking: PCI limit reached!
Suddently and without adding other devices...

I'm going crazy

Just with one effect!!!!!

[only with Scope Pro 15 DSP, the luna is taken outfrom PC]

[jksuperstar]

I might just mean the CPU was held up and can't address the IRQ from the cards fast engouh, likely because it is stuck servicing another IRQ.

Check it with DPC Latency Checker and LatencyMon. (Latency Mon will tell you exactly what the offending program or service is)

My wireless networking service can cause these things if I don't disable it for audio work. The IRQ for Wifi holds the CPU hostage for over 1ms, so I turn it off and can do large ASIO channel count (32+ channels) with lowest ULLI setting.

[erminardi]

_________________________________________________________________________________________________________
CONCLUSION
_________________________________________________________________________________________________________
Your system appears to be suitable for handling real-time audio and other tasks without dropouts.
LatencyMon has been analyzing your system for 0:04:16 (h:mm:ss) on all processors.


_________________________________________________________________________________________________________
SYSTEM INFORMATION
_________________________________________________________________________________________________________
Computer name: AUDIO-PC
OS version: Windows 7 Service Pack 1, 6.1, build: 7601 (x64)
Hardware: All Series, ASUS, ASUSTeK COMPUTER INC., Z87-C
CPU: GenuineIntel Intel(R) Core(TM) i7-4770S CPU @ 3.10GHz
Logical processors: 4
Processor groups: 1
RAM: 12192 MB total


_________________________________________________________________________________________________________
CPU SPEED
_________________________________________________________________________________________________________
Reported CPU speed: 3147,0 MHz
Measured CPU speed: 3756,0 MHz (approx.)

Note: reported execution times may be calculated based on a fixed reported CPU speed. Disable variable speed settings like Intel Speed Step and AMD Cool N Quiet in the BIOS setup for more accurate results.


_________________________________________________________________________________________________________
MEASURED INTERRUPT TO USER PROCESS LATENCIES
_________________________________________________________________________________________________________
The interrupt to process latency reflects the measured interval that a usermode process needed to respond to a hardware request from the moment the interrupt service routine started execution. This includes the scheduling and execution of a DPC routine, the signaling of an event and the waking up of a usermode thread from an idle wait state in response to that event.

Highest measured interrupt to process latency (µs): 452,561855
Average measured interrupt to process latency (µs): 1,163064

Highest measured interrupt to DPC latency (µs): 451,585805
Average measured interrupt to DPC latency (µs): 0,615036


_________________________________________________________________________________________________________
MEASURED SMI, IPI AND CPU STALLS
_________________________________________________________________________________________________________
The SMI, IPI and CPU stalls value represents the highest measured interval that a CPU did not respond while having its maskable interrupts disabled.

Highest measured SMI or CPU stall (µs) 0,65070


_________________________________________________________________________________________________________
REPORTED ISRs
_________________________________________________________________________________________________________
Interrupt service routines are routines installed by the OS and device drivers that execute in response to a hardware interrupt signal.

Highest ISR routine execution time (µs): 26,783286
Driver with highest ISR routine execution time: ACPI.sys - Driver ACPI per NT, Microsoft Corporation

Highest reported total ISR routine time (%): 0,020597
Driver with highest ISR total time: portcls.sys - Port Class (Class Driver for Port/Miniport Devices), Microsoft Corporation

Total time spent in ISRs (%) 0,024488

ISR count (execution time <250 µs): 294331
ISR count (execution time 250-500 µs): 0
ISR count (execution time 500-999 µs): 0
ISR count (execution time 1000-1999 µs): 0
ISR count (execution time 2000-3999 µs): 0
ISR count (execution time >=4000 µs): 0


_________________________________________________________________________________________________________
REPORTED DPCs
_________________________________________________________________________________________________________
DPC routines are part of the interrupt servicing dispatch mechanism and disable the possibility for a process to utilize the CPU while it is interrupted until the DPC has finished execution.

Highest DPC routine execution time (µs): 537,394026
Driver with highest DPC routine execution time: scScope.sys - Scope PCI WDM Adapter Driver, Sonic Core

Highest reported total DPC routine time (%): 0,391179
Driver with highest DPC total execution time: scScope.sys - Scope PCI WDM Adapter Driver, Sonic Core

Total time spent in DPCs (%) 0,450979

DPC count (execution time <250 µs): 1495779
DPC count (execution time 250-500 µs): 0
DPC count (execution time 500-999 µs): 625
DPC count (execution time 1000-1999 µs): 0
DPC count (execution time 2000-3999 µs): 0
DPC count (execution time >=4000 µs): 0


_________________________________________________________________________________________________________
REPORTED HARD PAGEFAULTS
_________________________________________________________________________________________________________
Hard pagefaults are events that get triggered by making use of virtual memory that is not resident in RAM but backed by a memory mapped file on disk. The process of resolving the hard pagefault requires reading in the memory from disk while the process is interrupted and blocked from execution.

NOTE: some processes were hit by hard pagefaults. If these were programs producing audio, they are likely to interrupt the audio stream resulting in dropouts, clicks and pops. Check the Processes tab to see which programs were hit.

Process with highest pagefault count: mspaint.exe

Total number of hard pagefaults 29
Hard pagefault count of hardest hit process: 20
Highest hard pagefault resolution time (µs): 2906,339053
Total time spent in hard pagefaults (%): 0,001230
Number of processes hit: 3


_________________________________________________________________________________________________________
PER CPU DATA
_________________________________________________________________________________________________________
CPU 0 Interrupt cycle time (s): 5,715017
CPU 0 ISR highest execution time (µs): 26,783286
CPU 0 ISR total execution time (s): 0,251316
CPU 0 ISR count: 294331
CPU 0 DPC highest execution time (µs): 537,394026
CPU 0 DPC total execution time (s): 4,585117
CPU 0 DPC count: 1445334
_________________________________________________________________________________________________________
CPU 1 Interrupt cycle time (s): 0,498153
CPU 1 ISR highest execution time (µs): 0,0
CPU 1 ISR total execution time (s): 0,0
CPU 1 ISR count: 0
CPU 1 DPC highest execution time (µs): 24,679377
CPU 1 DPC total execution time (s): 0,009476
CPU 1 DPC count: 9118
_________________________________________________________________________________________________________
CPU 2 Interrupt cycle time (s): 0,456426
CPU 2 ISR highest execution time (µs): 0,0
CPU 2 ISR total execution time (s): 0,0
CPU 2 ISR count: 0
CPU 2 DPC highest execution time (µs): 67,025739
CPU 2 DPC total execution time (s): 0,013778
CPU 2 DPC count: 13407
_________________________________________________________________________________________________________
CPU 3 Interrupt cycle time (s): 0,446971
CPU 3 ISR highest execution time (µs): 0,0
CPU 3 ISR total execution time (s): 0,0
CPU 3 ISR count: 0
CPU 3 DPC highest execution time (µs): 93,821417
CPU 3 DPC total execution time (s): 0,020023
CPU 3 DPC count: 28545
_________________________________________________________________________________________________________

[erminardi]

All seems to be ok.

[Immanuel]

All seems to be ok.

This tool is useless for measuring Scope performance.

[garyb]

do the masterverb test in an empty project, not with a bunch of ASIO channels open.

[erminardi]

ok, finally I found the answer: the scope pro is 1st gen.
during a quick test with a scope 6 dsp from a friend of mine I reached 9 Masterverbs without any problem. Cubase worked flawless.
I will buy another Scope Pro, the sad thing is that I spent recently for OS 5.1 upgrade and Zarg synths... so useless :/

that's life...

the strange thing is that this same Scope Pro worked ok with a MB with 1156 chipset, never had this kind of problems.
Mystery.

Thanks to all for the help, I hope this tread will be useful in future for our community.
Thanks Garyb, you are the man with the beard of wisdom

[fidox]

I always had good working system with Asus, former DFI and now Gigabyte (with 3 PCI slots, cause i need them for my 3 Cards).