STS and 64 bit

[Ricardo]

With the Scope 6 release happening, will the STS bug in 64 bit Scope 5.1 ever be fixed?

[YedOrium]

I really want/need to know it too

[garyb]

it's not a bug.

the files that handle system memory must be rewritten for 64bit. i would expect that to be done, but until it's announced, it's not for certain. for sure, S|C knows that people would like to have the sts in 64bit, so....

[Ricardo]

Sorry Gary,
'64 bit issue' not bug. Slip of the tongue, or should I say keyboard.
It would be great if the 64 bit version had full functionality. Let's hope it does.

R

[garyb]

i'm with you...

[next to nothing]

"It's not a bug"

Bug, error, fault. You can call it what you like, i still prefer Bug.

And honestly SC hasn't shown any will to update faulty software for years now, and with the introduction of Scope 6 I wouldn't expect SC to do jack shit with the current software.

And with people waiting for weeks to get a key for their new purchases it's just getting silly.

Regarding bugs, i like this definition:
" things the software does that it is not supposed to do, [or] something the software doesn't do that it is supposed to"

http://www.softwaredevelopment.ca/bugs.shtml

[garyb]

first off, there is no 64bit STS. period. that's why it's not a bug. it's not an error, it's not a fault. STS was not written for 64bit systems. there were no 64bit systems when STS was written. STS is available for 32bit systems and it works there, still.

second, there is definitely a will to fix and improve the software. how many programmers does your business support anyway? it takes forever to get anything done, but they are wortking on it, even if you can't tell. that's just how it is. if you want to complain, jump off the boat, pony up the needed funds or wait.

the horrible situation with the sale is also something that has happened, never did S|C expect the response they got. most have long since received keyfiles, however if 300 customers send 4 emails each, just how many emails is that for one person to sort through while woring in a makeshift office and sleeping on a floor? it's no excuse, it's just a fact. i personally witnessed two men work nearly around the clock for several days, just to make a dent in the pile.

S|C is a VERY small company that makes something SPECIAL. that something is made in spite of the fact that there's never enough help or money. that doesn't make mistakes acceptable or tolerable. it's no excuse for anything. it is realitry and grown men at least should be able to understand this, instead of acting like spoiled babies. there are a LOT of plugins and software in many different professional wolrds, including music, that are not 64bit ready. in fact, it took 2 1/2 years for the 64bit windows version of Scope to be released. this had to be simplified so that in the future, other os versions and fixes for problems would be quicker and easier. because S|C wants to do a better job in the future, v6 is being developed. this helps EVERYBODY.

there's no reason to take my word for anything, people will either have to wait and see, or go do something else. those who actually produce music with Scope, generally know of it's true value. that's why there are still up to 18 year old cards in use by some of the top music makers and producers in the world.

i would be lying if there weren't times that i was disturbed by some of these problems, but everytime i've witnessed a sincere desire to do the right thing and to make a quality product, and i can't ask for more from HUMANS, which is what Scope is made by. Scope 5 is better than Scope 3 or 4 overall. that's all the proof i need. yes, we need some things fixed. YES, that is happening. the only reason it wouldn't happen is if there would be no S|C. all the money that goes into S|C is going back into Scope. NOBODY is sitting back on a beach, relaxing and living the good life off of customers money and hopes and dreams. all anyone in S|C is doing is working.

wtf is v6 if not an attempt to address these fundemental issues?

[next to nothing]

"first off, there is no 64bit STS. period. that's why it's not a bug. it's not an error, it's not a fault. STS was not written for 64bit systems. there were no 64bit systems when STS was written. STS is available for 32bit systems and it works there, still. "

just to be clear, i am not talking about exceeding the 32bit memory limit, but the reported bugs regarding using the editor etc.

They are still marketing it as 64bit compatible. By that, i mean if you go to their shop and read the ads for the 5.1 software it looks like this:

scope.jpg (189.44 KiB) Viewed 16573 times

Please tell me how i am to interpret this text as "There is no 64bit [compatible] STS".

[garyb]

the STS is NOT being marketed for 64bit.

this is mentioned in the documentation, but you are right that that's not enough. i'll point this out to Holger to try to help avoiding any confusion. there should be mention in the shop as well.

[next to nothing]

I suppose just clarifying the 32bit thing as they clarify the dsp limit regarding the *** comment, like "STS samplers are not working on 64bit systems" would be a good thing.

Also i would suggest they host a .zip or similar of the mod 4 package as the current installation is not 64bit comp because of the installer itself. It works good once you do it the "old school way". They should also include the fixed dsp files for the tape delay module (if they haven't yet) to spare themselves of people complaining about BSOD .

Sorry if i seem a bit grumpy.

[garyb]

ehhh, it's understandable.

[dante]

And honestly SC hasn't shown any will to update faulty software for years now, and with the introduction of Scope 6 I wouldn't expect SC to do jack shit with the current software.

If Scope 6 turns out to be a platform that facilitates easier development / stabalisation, I can see no reason why there would be any need for more work at all on 5.x. It would also show S|C do have the will to update faulty software.

Further, if the commitment is there, the timing doesnt really matter to me. For anything, seeing how great what we have now is.

[next to nothing]

And honestly SC hasn't shown any will to update faulty software for years now, and with the introduction of Scope 6 I wouldn't expect SC to do jack shit with the current software.

If Scope 6 turns out to be a platform that facilitates easier development / stabalisation, I can see no reason why there would be any need for more work at all on 5.x.

There is a big IF though. I really like the idea behind it, and i REALLY hope they are successful with it. That being said, i do not agree with the "no reason why there would be any need for more work at all on 5.x" bit. You can't expect people to be that positive about Scope 6 when/if:
a) They can't provide proper wave drivers within 3 years
b) They can't provide bug fixing for their latest software implementation within 3 years
c) Their webshop is malfunctioning, with wrong prices and not enough people/time to handle the demand and
d) Not being able/willing to tell people what is working/not working in 32/64bit before purchase.

Call it nitpicking, but i like a guitar to work when i buy it. it doesn't help me very much knowing i have a guitar with 5 BRILLIANT strings, knowing they promised me the 6th string and the line out 3 years ago and it might be included in a new guitar a couple of years ahead (if history actually do repeat itself).
The sale showed (with its unexpected popularity) that there are people around buying stuff at the right prices. Its not good giving them a bad experience when they finally spend their money.

Agian, sorry if i come off harsh, but there are certain things one might expect from a soft/hardware company, regardless if it is steinbug or SC.

[dante]

I guess I'm trying to figure out the point of having a 5.2 and a 6.0. Why not just fix everything in 6 ?

I mean, if S|C said " OK we are fixing all bugs then releasing that as a 5.2 free upgrade for all 5.x owners, then one year later we will have it converted to Open Scope and then release that as a 6.0 paid upgrade" then I could understand the logic.

But if thats not the case, then why wouldnt all resources be focused on a stable 6.0 ?

[garyb]

the big problem is, how many programmers are there working on these things?

at Steinberg, there are maybe hundreds, at microsoft maybe thousands, at S|C?

who is going to do what and how long will that keep the company in business?

again, Scope is SPECIAL. SPECIAL!
that's the only reason it still exists, because there's no one else in the whole world, who is willing to even ATTEMPT something that really is helpful and useful over the long term. EVERYONE else is making things that need to be replaced every few months. making products that like that is much more profitable and easy to market. there's no pride nor shame necessary, just a herd to be culled.

Scope only exists because a few people actually know what it is and love it! fortunately, some of those people are the one's that make it. otherwise, they'd do something where they can make lots of money NOW, instead of MAYBE later. how many people want to work in that situation? how many want to own such a company? does anyone REALLY think that working day and night, for little or no money is just fun? you better f-king believe that there is an ABSOLUTE commitment to making everything as PERFECT as possible! only time, money and fickle consumers stand in the way!

please forgive the shortcomings. HUMANS are doing their best to provide THE BEST! if people really put their minds to it, Scope would be the most awesome thing to ever happen for the little guy, the real musician who wanted to really do a great job producing his artwork. in fact, it actually is that. i've been in the business of buying and selling gear for more than 25 years and i've seen ALL the gear, or it's jmho, if you can't take my word. when i started making music 30 years ago, all there was was tape and a bunch of EXPENSIVE stuff, and it actually took talent to get anything done. now most people have programs to do everything for them, and they have no idea what good stuff is. sign of the times, rant....

[Ricardo]

please forgive the shortcomings. HUMANS are doing their best to provide THE BEST! if people really put their minds to it, Scope would be the most awesome thing to ever happen for the little guy, the real musician who wanted to really do a great job producing his artwork. In fact, it actually is that. i've been in the business of buying and selling gear for more than 25 years and i've seen ALL the gear, or it's jmho, if you can't take my word. when i started making music 30 years ago, all there was was tape and a bunch of EXPENSIVE stuff, and it actually took talent to get anything done. now most people have programs to do everything for them, and they have no idea what good stuff is. sign of the times, rant....

Rant away Gary, I know exactly where you're coming from. 10 years ago I recorded a CD, in a studio on analog tape. The mix downs cost alot of money in studio time, but we made it sound great. Then we took it to a mastering place, and for even more money some idiot managed to make it sound like it was recorded through a bed room wall. By then i'd run out of money and couldn't remaster it. Then i learnt about SC. It cost me less than the mastering dickhead, and sounded awesome. And there it was in my home studio!! You see, I'm the little guy who wants to make music. Now I can, thanks to scope, and a lot of help from SC and the Planetz users, when my PC knowledge let me down, or any other new problem.
I agree with Dante also. There is the inevitable fact that technology does not stand still. Two versions of Scope, nah! the only problem is that Scope 6 will probably cost, rather than be a free upgrade. I have no idea if I will benefit from S6, even though a lot of people are really excited.
When I started this thread it was not a complaint. I'd love a functioning STS in 64 bit. If i'm that desparate I'll just revert to 32bit for now. Meanwhile, Scope sounds awesome, is rock solid, and you can tell the passion of the company is there.

BTW I was lucky and got my keys to my sale plugins quite quickly. Just think though. If there was no sale, we might all be playing with the Scope 6 test version right now. And what's stopping us from doing what we were doing before, whilst we wait for our keys or our STS.

R

[Fluxpod]

And honestly SC hasn't shown any will to update faulty software for years now, and with the introduction of Scope 6 I wouldn't expect SC to do jack shit with the current software.

If Scope 6 turns out to be a platform that facilitates easier development / stabalisation, I can see no reason why there would be any need for more work at all on 5.x.

There is a big IF though. I really like the idea behind it, and i REALLY hope they are successful with it. That being said, i do not agree with the "no reason why there would be any need for more work at all on 5.x" bit. You can't expect people to be that positive about Scope 6 when/if:
a) They can't provide proper wave drivers within 3 years
b) They can't provide bug fixing for their latest software implementation within 3 years
c) Their webshop is malfunctioning, with wrong prices and not enough people/time to handle the demand and
d) Not being able/willing to tell people what is working/not working in 32/64bit before purchase.

Call it nitpicking, but i like a guitar to work when i buy it. it doesn't help me very much knowing i have a guitar with 5 BRILLIANT strings, knowing they promised me the 6th string and the line out 3 years ago and it might be included in a new guitar a couple of years ahead (if history actually do repeat itself).
The sale showed (with its unexpected popularity) that there are people around buying stuff at the right prices. Its not good giving them a bad experience when they finally spend their money.

Agian, sorry if i come off harsh, but there are certain things one might expect from a soft/hardware company, regardless if it is steinbug or SC.

I agree 100%.

[dante]

A decade years ago, about a year after buying my first Scope card, I bought a new BWM 316ti - a German designed car. Now, even though the same German brilliance was in the car, the cost of maintenance exceeded its worth, so I was forced to trade it for a Honda. I couldn't afford another BWM.

Meanwhile, the first Scope card still runs, still provides DSP horsepower, still provides I/O and does everything I first bought it for. I have XITE-1D - but the cards are still not redundant.

I look around the house to see if I have any other technology that old still providing services.

I CANT FIND ANYTHING EXCEPT A TOASTER Nothing else has lasted that long and MAINTENANCE FREE ! I have not even cleaned the PCI connectors and its been in 3 different PC's.

[ehasting]

.... i bought my first lunar2 card in 2003... now 5 pc's later, and 2 macs.. they are still going..
my TC Konnekt 24D lasted for like 4 years before it got to End of Life...

to be honest.. its so impressive... they are like the old tv screens.. my parents had their phillip 21" color tv for 18 years .

If i ever can afford a Xite-1.. it would probably be for life... maybe my grand children can fight over it.. when i die..

[siriusbliss]

I've had my Xite for going on 3 years now, and it's easily paid for itself - and I don't even run a studio anymore.

Meanwhile my age-old Teac 3340 4-track is in the shop on it's last legs with frozen motors and (literally) decomposing components.

We've come a LONG way.

Greg

p.s. back on OP's topic- I look forward to STS working in 64-bit and/or even more advanced sample-handling devices in future open-Scope!