I've been reading some of the threads here about older scope cards, and I do say it is rather confusing trying to understand what is what.
I'm looking at buying a Scope Home, or Luna card as I think they were called but also read something about high latency in some cards but not others.
What is the difference between various interfaces?
I'm looking at a 3DSP version with 16 ADAT I/O.
Thank you all
Clarification needed
Re: Clarification needed
ALL the 3dsp cards have the low latency ability.
Re: Clarification needed
Hello.
The card I'm looking at I've been told says 1.3.
Any idea what that means?
I really wished soniccore would have it somewhere on the website but I guess xite is the order of the day.
Thankyou and regards
The card I'm looking at I've been told says 1.3.
Any idea what that means?
I really wished soniccore would have it somewhere on the website but I guess xite is the order of the day.
Thankyou and regards
Re: Clarification needed
it's a hardware revision number, not necessarily meaningful to the user....
what's more important is which version software you would have keys for. Sonic/Core really had nothing to do with the older cards, so it's great that they are fully supporting them....
what's more important is which version software you would have keys for. Sonic/Core really had nothing to do with the older cards, so it's great that they are fully supporting them....
Re: Clarification needed
Hey thanks.
I don't want to appear demanding, but without asking soniccore directly, would you or anyone know what the latest card revision is?
I was looking at RME, and they've been able to tell me everything via their forum so was hoping for the same kind of service here.
Regards
I don't want to appear demanding, but without asking soniccore directly, would you or anyone know what the latest card revision is?
I was looking at RME, and they've been able to tell me everything via their forum so was hoping for the same kind of service here.
Regards
Re: Clarification needed
no, i don't know, but it really isn't an issue. all revs perform pretty much the same.
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nightscope
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Re: Clarification needed
Service is extra. This isn't a Sonic Core sponsored site. It is a motley collection of users, enthusiasts, neer do wells and desperados. The most desperate of 'em all being garyb. But he knows his stuff.method wrote:I was looking at RME, and they've been able to tell me everything via their forum so was hoping for the same kind of service here.
ns
“Women and rhythm-section first!”
Re: Clarification needed
Glad I stopped in here..........
You will really like the Scope cards and find they are stable
enough for live work.
I also noticed the cards do not sound as good as the RME
when playing hi fidelity sample libraries, but then again RME
will play VSTi's and depending on which ones you use you will
find Scope synths will sound better.
Scope Modular is the most powerful tool from the last century
and is still being upgraded.
I am a moron for not delving deeply into this before.
But I have realized my shortcomings and have made adjustments.
Especially with reading a synth diagram and then replicating that.
I even use the best tricks of one synth and add them together
with another.
Kind of like a Modular version of a Moogerheim Quadyssey............
ANkyu.
Re: Clarification needed
I believe the above poster is right, RME might sound better but as with anything native, it can only sound so good!
I am sure scope would a great platform for synthesizer technology and near enough to any "high end" other technology.
The only problem is finding out about the hardware. I know already these are only PCI revision 2.0, so what might that mean for signalling and does the revision number of the boards have any meaning?
I know with RME, and their secure BIOS technology it does so what about soniccore?
If someone has the answer it would be very muchly appreciated.
I am sure scope would a great platform for synthesizer technology and near enough to any "high end" other technology.
The only problem is finding out about the hardware. I know already these are only PCI revision 2.0, so what might that mean for signalling and does the revision number of the boards have any meaning?
I know with RME, and their secure BIOS technology it does so what about soniccore?
If someone has the answer it would be very muchly appreciated.
Re: Clarification needed
Negative Brotha' Man Method.............
The cards use to have Type 1 they were called that had 13 msec. and 4 x DSP chips if I remember correctly.
I bought 2 of them for 200 bucks and used a faster Type 2 card for the latency and extra DSP power, they work perfectly well.
Here's the same patch above doing an old Crumar String.
Unless you really like great effects, mixers and synths, I would go with the RME.
All natural detuning, no jive chorusing, just the meat & potatoes.
The cards use to have Type 1 they were called that had 13 msec. and 4 x DSP chips if I remember correctly.
I bought 2 of them for 200 bucks and used a faster Type 2 card for the latency and extra DSP power, they work perfectly well.
Here's the same patch above doing an old Crumar String.
Unless you really like great effects, mixers and synths, I would go with the RME.
All natural detuning, no jive chorusing, just the meat & potatoes.
Re: Clarification needed
Nice strings who needs analog hey!
I believe what you say XITE-1 but still would like to know why soniccore are or appear to be making older 5volt cards.
Thanks for that demo btw, just the kind of stuff I need.
I guess it wouldn't effect operations that much so the question then is will there ever be an updated PCI system, or will it go PCIe?
Look at yamaha for example their MU100 on a card, that tech was dropped in the 90's and they haven't made a card since. RME on the other hand or even echo made all their stuff pci 1.1 compliant.
There must be a reason why this stuff wasn't ever made for mac
I believe what you say XITE-1 but still would like to know why soniccore are or appear to be making older 5volt cards.
Thanks for that demo btw, just the kind of stuff I need.
I guess it wouldn't effect operations that much so the question then is will there ever be an updated PCI system, or will it go PCIe?
Look at yamaha for example their MU100 on a card, that tech was dropped in the 90's and they haven't made a card since. RME on the other hand or even echo made all their stuff pci 1.1 compliant.
There must be a reason why this stuff wasn't ever made for mac
Re: Clarification needed
I believe in the future a comprimise between the ancient cards, and the XITE-1 is what S|C will see as a sweetspot.
XITE-1 was for the experimental folks like me, but I perform live everynight so it was a gamble and now I just enjoy tons of power and still have never used more than 60% of the juice this thing has.
They are behind in the development, but every little upgrade seems to be a leap with very valuable additions.
I envision a PCI-e 4X or 8X card, or even a smaller desktop version.
Their new converters are really sweet though and make the XITE-1 sound better than the cards when recording. Even live I noticed a difference, so I am quite happy, and I believe that S|C will bring a semi-pro/picky consumer version eventually. That product will be back ordered and extremely popular probably.
I am very happy with my rig and wait like a feverish drug addict for every little upgrade or BETA.
RME is a really nice product, but S|C's old/new cards are just so unique and essential for creativity, they are hard to compare really.
Having a native DAW w/ a fast Intel CPU and an XITE-1 is just so close to Heaven.
I have recently been impressed with certain native plugs and apps and feel that I need my Analog synths, my VSTi's and my DSP's..............I must use them all lest I feel naked.
At the end of the day I am a very happy, satisfied musician who only 5 years ago could barely carry my rig around as it was mostly Oberheim and hardware.
Now I slide in a KS88 and an 8U ATA w/ a small Pro3t Rotary cabinet and 2 x Barbetta powered monitors.
I had a bartender tell me I smiled more than Ray Charles........
Also many folks from the audience always make comments about the sounds so there's why I feel so good these days.
28U w/ 3 x keyboards down to an 8U w/ 1 x controller..............Hell, even if it sucked I would still be happier...........Cheers.
XITE-1 was for the experimental folks like me, but I perform live everynight so it was a gamble and now I just enjoy tons of power and still have never used more than 60% of the juice this thing has.
They are behind in the development, but every little upgrade seems to be a leap with very valuable additions.
I envision a PCI-e 4X or 8X card, or even a smaller desktop version.
Their new converters are really sweet though and make the XITE-1 sound better than the cards when recording. Even live I noticed a difference, so I am quite happy, and I believe that S|C will bring a semi-pro/picky consumer version eventually. That product will be back ordered and extremely popular probably.
I am very happy with my rig and wait like a feverish drug addict for every little upgrade or BETA.
RME is a really nice product, but S|C's old/new cards are just so unique and essential for creativity, they are hard to compare really.
Having a native DAW w/ a fast Intel CPU and an XITE-1 is just so close to Heaven.
I have recently been impressed with certain native plugs and apps and feel that I need my Analog synths, my VSTi's and my DSP's..............I must use them all lest I feel naked.
At the end of the day I am a very happy, satisfied musician who only 5 years ago could barely carry my rig around as it was mostly Oberheim and hardware.
Now I slide in a KS88 and an 8U ATA w/ a small Pro3t Rotary cabinet and 2 x Barbetta powered monitors.
I had a bartender tell me I smiled more than Ray Charles........
Also many folks from the audience always make comments about the sounds so there's why I feel so good these days.
28U w/ 3 x keyboards down to an 8U w/ 1 x controller..............Hell, even if it sucked I would still be happier...........Cheers.
Re: Clarification needed
Hi
I don't know much about scope environment or scopemode and am wanting to migrate over from native world as they are to put it bluntly... unreliable.
RME I'm sure sounds great and is pro of course soniccore is in that league.
Personally I don't want to go the RME route as good as it is with totalmix and so on. What I'm wanting is more of a compromise in terms of features. I'm not so pro I need anything more but I feel with a system such as soniccore I have the most choice and flexibility in how I can work and this is what I'm after but there will always be a part of me that wants to know more but I won't babble on.
I guess I could write to SC directly but would they know?
In SOS there was a review that said something about product serial numbers from old creamware products being migrated over so I'm guessing that it's still the same stuff but can't help wanting to know if any changes have been made to the hardware (not creamware > soniccore so much but during this new era).
I don't know much about scope environment or scopemode and am wanting to migrate over from native world as they are to put it bluntly... unreliable.
RME I'm sure sounds great and is pro of course soniccore is in that league.
Personally I don't want to go the RME route as good as it is with totalmix and so on. What I'm wanting is more of a compromise in terms of features. I'm not so pro I need anything more but I feel with a system such as soniccore I have the most choice and flexibility in how I can work and this is what I'm after but there will always be a part of me that wants to know more but I won't babble on.
I guess I could write to SC directly but would they know?
In SOS there was a review that said something about product serial numbers from old creamware products being migrated over so I'm guessing that it's still the same stuff but can't help wanting to know if any changes have been made to the hardware (not creamware > soniccore so much but during this new era).
Re: Clarification needed
well, i'm not S/C, but...
right now there are NO new cards, NONE. S|C can't keep up with the orders for the XITE-1, and until they do, there's nobdy who has time to even THINK about making cards. this is the reality of a very small company.
if you want a used card, ALL 3DSP CARDS ARE THE SAME(the new type, low latency)! all 6dsp cards are the new type. all 4dsp cards are the older style, high latency. SOME 15 dsp cards are the old type, MOST are the new type. ALL 14dsp cards are the new type.
the XITE-1 is the NEW hardware. it's PCI-e instead of PCI and it's 10x the pwer of a 14dsp card, but it's only a little more than twice as expensive, with double the i/o and a GREAT pair of mic pres. it's stupid, no-brainer CHEAP, for what it is.
there is no comparable product to Scope, except maybe ProTools H|D, and that starts about $40,000. Scope is PRO quality gear, meant to last 20 years or more, so even as a toy, it should bring long term happiness, if music production is the main goal. RME can't really even compare because it's a different type of product, completely. Scope is GEAR. it is a room with a bunch of expensive sh*t in it. 3dsps won't really do a lot for you, except for the cool routing capabilities, and a nice synth or two or one super nice bit of audio processing. anyone who really liked to play with sound would find 3dsps a frustrating tease. i would suggest starting with at least 6dsps, assuming of course, that you like really cool audio gear. if you don't, this wouldn't be for you.
oh and btw-the guys at S|C are nothing short of miracle workers in this field. their programmers are doing things the other companies CAN'T. CAN NOT. the guys their are at the top of their field. the reason they made those cards so long, is that they work so well! show me another 10 year old computer ANYTHING that works better today than ever. nothing but my Scope cards...the XITE-1 was said to be IMPOSSIBLE by the manufacturer of the dsp chips themselves, yet it works. we have our complaints, Scope's not 100% perfect, but it's stable and more than effective. in fact, the real complaints are that it's so good, one wants and expects better and more. in my opinion this is a very successful product. i mean, the movie Gladiator won an academy award for sound, and that card was used. Scope cards were the effects engine in the Fairlight Constellation, a quarter of a million dollar console. look, some people are just computer geeks and some want to produce music. Scope is cool for both, but it's best for someone who's main desire is a machine to produce music.
right now there are NO new cards, NONE. S|C can't keep up with the orders for the XITE-1, and until they do, there's nobdy who has time to even THINK about making cards. this is the reality of a very small company.
if you want a used card, ALL 3DSP CARDS ARE THE SAME(the new type, low latency)! all 6dsp cards are the new type. all 4dsp cards are the older style, high latency. SOME 15 dsp cards are the old type, MOST are the new type. ALL 14dsp cards are the new type.
the XITE-1 is the NEW hardware. it's PCI-e instead of PCI and it's 10x the pwer of a 14dsp card, but it's only a little more than twice as expensive, with double the i/o and a GREAT pair of mic pres. it's stupid, no-brainer CHEAP, for what it is.
there is no comparable product to Scope, except maybe ProTools H|D, and that starts about $40,000. Scope is PRO quality gear, meant to last 20 years or more, so even as a toy, it should bring long term happiness, if music production is the main goal. RME can't really even compare because it's a different type of product, completely. Scope is GEAR. it is a room with a bunch of expensive sh*t in it. 3dsps won't really do a lot for you, except for the cool routing capabilities, and a nice synth or two or one super nice bit of audio processing. anyone who really liked to play with sound would find 3dsps a frustrating tease. i would suggest starting with at least 6dsps, assuming of course, that you like really cool audio gear. if you don't, this wouldn't be for you.
oh and btw-the guys at S|C are nothing short of miracle workers in this field. their programmers are doing things the other companies CAN'T. CAN NOT. the guys their are at the top of their field. the reason they made those cards so long, is that they work so well! show me another 10 year old computer ANYTHING that works better today than ever. nothing but my Scope cards...the XITE-1 was said to be IMPOSSIBLE by the manufacturer of the dsp chips themselves, yet it works. we have our complaints, Scope's not 100% perfect, but it's stable and more than effective. in fact, the real complaints are that it's so good, one wants and expects better and more. in my opinion this is a very successful product. i mean, the movie Gladiator won an academy award for sound, and that card was used. Scope cards were the effects engine in the Fairlight Constellation, a quarter of a million dollar console. look, some people are just computer geeks and some want to produce music. Scope is cool for both, but it's best for someone who's main desire is a machine to produce music.
Re: Clarification needed
Here's a new skin I am using with Scope and Reaper.
I will be putting Modular synth creations and Sample libraries from Kontakt to film.
A Scope card can also have such capabilities.
Even a little bitty Luna can house a good mixer and some effects.
If I were you I would get a used Scope Pro.
But be warned, I started w/ a single project card and still feel the need to buy more DSP cards.
They are addicting.
Kind of like a sleeper assasin having to continue buying the book Catcher In The Rye.
When I see a Scope DSP card on ebay, I feel as though I have to buy it.
And if I don't see one for sale, I feel as though I have to find one to buy.
Here's my API GUI with 6 AUX's just like my Scope mixer.
Using Doepfer Fader boxes x 2 and a KS88 master controller I have total control of a rather large live show.
RME's total mix pales in comparison to any Scope mixer..
I will be putting Modular synth creations and Sample libraries from Kontakt to film.
A Scope card can also have such capabilities.
Even a little bitty Luna can house a good mixer and some effects.
If I were you I would get a used Scope Pro.
But be warned, I started w/ a single project card and still feel the need to buy more DSP cards.
They are addicting.
Kind of like a sleeper assasin having to continue buying the book Catcher In The Rye.
When I see a Scope DSP card on ebay, I feel as though I have to buy it.
And if I don't see one for sale, I feel as though I have to find one to buy.
Here's my API GUI with 6 AUX's just like my Scope mixer.
Using Doepfer Fader boxes x 2 and a KS88 master controller I have total control of a rather large live show.
RME's total mix pales in comparison to any Scope mixer..
Re: Clarification needed
I accept what you guys are saying, indeed soniccore is totally unique.
I've used regular soundcards before and native syths and honestly I avoid them and whenever possible I used outboard sound generators. As for effects I have UAD which I guess I can still use in the scope environment if I run short on DSP, but I think as XITE-1 was saying, even on a Luna I'd get the environment, which gives me routing, even that on its' own is a great feature.
As for generations and so on... I accept here what garyb has said, but if there are no new cards, how is it that SC are still selling them? I saw a special lately, are they reselling the old cards with for example new capacitors?
They seem rather expensive, has it always been this way?
I've used regular soundcards before and native syths and honestly I avoid them and whenever possible I used outboard sound generators. As for effects I have UAD which I guess I can still use in the scope environment if I run short on DSP, but I think as XITE-1 was saying, even on a Luna I'd get the environment, which gives me routing, even that on its' own is a great feature.
As for generations and so on... I accept here what garyb has said, but if there are no new cards, how is it that SC are still selling them? I saw a special lately, are they reselling the old cards with for example new capacitors?
They seem rather expensive, has it always been this way?
Re: Clarification needed
what ad did you see?
i sell cards, but i can't get them lately. they're still on the website, but right now, there's no time to make them. XITE is the new card. it's cheap at twice the price, but only if you know what real studio equipment is. i have many components in my studio that were more expensive than an XITE-1 and they do less. granted, they are special enough to be wortt owning even if they're just a mic or mic pre. i have several computers with cards doing various jobs. i gotta tell you, my main production computer is still a p4. i haven't needed to upgrade it, since i can still do top quality production with it now just like when i built it. i will certainly upgrade it, but i've gotten a LOT of use out of it and it's still useful. sometime what seems expensive in the short term, is much cheaper in the long term.
it depends on what you are really about. i know of 2 people, both who have been around this forum, who were nominated for grammies for best instrumental, two different years, who mixed in the Scope environment. there is a gentleman here who has been a top touring musician since the BEGINNING of the modern synth era who's played in platinum selling bands and with top name acts who has been using Scope live for a number of years now. he's so extreme, he automated an act for a vegas dancing/singing girl's act that commanded five figures on a good night, including monitor and front of house mixes with a Scope system i put together. he's been on this thread showing you his sounds. so Scope cards are good enough to be up for a grammy, win an oscar, and unlike the UAD cards(which ARE very good devices), they can be used in REAL TIME and they can handle live sound mixing duties for a high dollar act where dependability and good sound is a must, while streaming samples and modeling synths simultaneously. something like this always is useful, and look! Sonic|Core even made the vista drivers for the old cards, so they will be around for quite a while yet.
this is just a good sensible investment for a musician. if one has no music, of course, they are useless. things that actually sound good are never useless or truly obsolete, the minimoog and the 1176 compressor being two easy examples. even as multi in/out effects boxes or synth boxes installed in a free, obsolete computer, a Scope card would be useful, either live or in the studio. i'm biased, for sure, but what do you expect from the internet? heck, buy an XITE-1, i probably won't make any money fom it, and you may have to wait a bit for delivery, but it's an excellent long term purchase, really, if you want a studio.
for what is truly REAL studio gear, Scope is cheap. for a windows sound card, it's expensive.
i sell cards, but i can't get them lately. they're still on the website, but right now, there's no time to make them. XITE is the new card. it's cheap at twice the price, but only if you know what real studio equipment is. i have many components in my studio that were more expensive than an XITE-1 and they do less. granted, they are special enough to be wortt owning even if they're just a mic or mic pre. i have several computers with cards doing various jobs. i gotta tell you, my main production computer is still a p4. i haven't needed to upgrade it, since i can still do top quality production with it now just like when i built it. i will certainly upgrade it, but i've gotten a LOT of use out of it and it's still useful. sometime what seems expensive in the short term, is much cheaper in the long term.
it depends on what you are really about. i know of 2 people, both who have been around this forum, who were nominated for grammies for best instrumental, two different years, who mixed in the Scope environment. there is a gentleman here who has been a top touring musician since the BEGINNING of the modern synth era who's played in platinum selling bands and with top name acts who has been using Scope live for a number of years now. he's so extreme, he automated an act for a vegas dancing/singing girl's act that commanded five figures on a good night, including monitor and front of house mixes with a Scope system i put together. he's been on this thread showing you his sounds. so Scope cards are good enough to be up for a grammy, win an oscar, and unlike the UAD cards(which ARE very good devices), they can be used in REAL TIME and they can handle live sound mixing duties for a high dollar act where dependability and good sound is a must, while streaming samples and modeling synths simultaneously. something like this always is useful, and look! Sonic|Core even made the vista drivers for the old cards, so they will be around for quite a while yet.
this is just a good sensible investment for a musician. if one has no music, of course, they are useless. things that actually sound good are never useless or truly obsolete, the minimoog and the 1176 compressor being two easy examples. even as multi in/out effects boxes or synth boxes installed in a free, obsolete computer, a Scope card would be useful, either live or in the studio. i'm biased, for sure, but what do you expect from the internet?
heck, buy an XITE-1, i probably won't make any money fom it, and you may have to wait a bit for delivery, but it's an excellent long term purchase, really, if you want a studio.for what is truly REAL studio gear, Scope is cheap. for a windows sound card, it's expensive.
Re: Clarification needed
actually, i don't really mean to dissuade you from buying a Luna or Scope Home card. i get carried away...
Re: Clarification needed
Jim, wtf
Re: Clarification needed
Not disuaded but encouraged!
As XCITE-1/LIVE when you see one on ebay you are tempted, hence the reason I am here now
As far as a musician/producer goes I am at the really low end of the socio-economic spectrum (extreme poverty almost) and simply because 3G has become available means I can get online. I could never afford this stuff new so must look at second hand as much as I aspire to the newer gear.
Thank you for the commentary on this. I do believe this stuff can be used for large performances, one example: I have a Bistream 3x, French designed and made by Chinese, but solid as a rock and will last for years. Of course there is a screen in it which would be the first thing to go I expect. On the waveidea website you can see how they are used.
It's about starting small and moving up, getting used to the environment and plugins reading up experimenting with routing signal paths etc.
As you said SC made vista drivers, so the old gear is still relevant and I have no doubt now since I understand the effects can be used for recording.
All the best
As XCITE-1/LIVE when you see one on ebay you are tempted, hence the reason I am here now
As far as a musician/producer goes I am at the really low end of the socio-economic spectrum (extreme poverty almost) and simply because 3G has become available means I can get online. I could never afford this stuff new so must look at second hand as much as I aspire to the newer gear.
Thank you for the commentary on this. I do believe this stuff can be used for large performances, one example: I have a Bistream 3x, French designed and made by Chinese, but solid as a rock and will last for years. Of course there is a screen in it which would be the first thing to go I expect. On the waveidea website you can see how they are used.
It's about starting small and moving up, getting used to the environment and plugins reading up experimenting with routing signal paths etc.
As you said SC made vista drivers, so the old gear is still relevant and I have no doubt now since I understand the effects can be used for recording.
All the best