ethics of warez ad nauseum (was: "to John Cooper")

algorhythm · Post by **algorhythm** » Fri Sep 28, 2001 4:03 pm

peripatitis wrote:
To algorithm: there not such thing as
an objective opinion and please understand that truth is not a majority

never said that there is an objective opinion, but that there is objective truth. people can differ as to what they believe or opine (to have an opinion), but these opinions to not change the fact of the matter. I quite understand that truth is not a majority issue; if you judged the morality of piracy by people's behave, it would be a quite acceptable thing to do. But just because a lot of people act on this belief/opinion does not mean it is correct/true. I think we agree on some of this, but you have misunderstood what I meant. And I was not calling your view directly shitty, but subjective ethics generally (which, admittedly, includes what you said, albeit indirectly).

[People of art] are the "spiritual guidence" in a society. I used the term in a more poetical sence than you conceived it and with a sence of humor.

I agree with this! But again, I think that my point was something different. I was merely saying that artists should have greater respect for others artistic opinions, especially when these are different from one's own. But one should not equally respect other's opinions with regard to fact. Some examples might help. Bob says: "I like Bach" and Mike says "I like Mozart" - in this case we should respect eachother's opinions because musical tastes are *subjective,* regardless of who we tend to agree with more. But if Ptolemy says "The earth is the center of the universe" and Galileo says "The sun is the center of the solar system" - then the matter is quite different. Copernicus is right, and Ptolemy's opinion is just wrong, because there is an *objective* fact of the matter. Artist or non-artist, it makes no sense to agree with Ptolemy.

hey algo why don't you sentence these people with a death penalty ?
If you are from the states it is legit

as we have agreed, majority opinion does not make something right, so your earlier reply contradicts this one.

I would also draw a distinction between right/wrong and legal/illegal. yes I am from the States, but I also think that the death penalty is immoral (brand me a liberal, but I already knew that). Finally, I see insufficient reason to kill someone for using pirated software

we usually only do that to terrorists and serial killers (not that I advocate death penalty even in these cases).

_________________
[ { ( - algorhythm - ) } ] /

[ This Message was edited by: algorhythm on 2001-09-28 17:15 ]

PabloFasan · Post by **PabloFasan** » Fri Sep 28, 2001 5:03 pm

Many of the people that are just now bitching against piracy are the same that that have TONS of pirated music via MP3 sites or directly copying standard audio CDs.

Also I know that some of you use pireted software from other music companies.

What kind of hypocrites are you?

Everyone here know that I disagree for complete with piracy, but some things must be put like white over black.

If you are not with piracy, ANY KIND PIRACY can be accepted.

Robert · Post by **Robert** » Fri Sep 28, 2001 11:57 pm

I wasn't talking about the rights and wrongs of piracy, I've seen threads about warez go on for weeks! (And very boring and time -consuming they are)
And to Mr Peripatitis, that bloke kwild said he had a whole load of e-mails about where to get the cracked Pulsar software. If that isn't promoting Warez, well what is!

Robert

lionel_talkover · Post by **lionel_talkover** » Sat Sep 29, 2001 12:16 am

Pablo,

You are probably right, but the real challenge is to buy the soft you really use everyday. I think it's the first direction and a good way to thanks the work of devopper. Avoid totaly piracy is not imaginable, for the moment, just buy what we use or listen. I was talking about demo's, we can imagine a first listen of an album. If you're convinced, you buy.

captain kirkus · Post by **captain kirkus** » Sat Sep 29, 2001 12:54 am

I meant to addres john bowen not blame him.I was calling his attention to kwild for stealing ambient and darkstar..I know john and Sstephen.. And am friendly with Paul Tanti..He has seen me at a rave in LV,NV.And he rules to the max..Kwild I was teasing your little brain. Do what you must I dont care..I thought it was fun to mess with your little kid brain and when you replied I thought it was funny..I hope you still care..use warez steal albums and cd's..smoke pot shoot heroin..How can I care ..But still only a full idiot would mention stolen soft here on this forum..I still cant belive it.
Freedom of speech is cool but you wouldnt go printing in the news paper your name and the fact you were a nambla member..Or show up to a snoop concert dressed as a kkk member...Go talk crakz on a crak page forum or site..It's appropriate there and there only..Ok Or youll get banned world wide as an idiot traitor to your faith.theyll ban your IP range and youll dick lots of people who shar a close number by being banned.Grow up and Im happy your learning the new world language.It shows intelligence to hop aboard the english tip..Good job..OH and fuck fuori di y consiga una vida

peripatitis · Post by **peripatitis** » Sat Sep 29, 2001 5:41 am

Algo , we seem to agree on many of our views
and at least we both condemn software piracy
I dont want to be misanderstood about my death penalty example(beeing anti u.s. or something) so i have to state that in a way i am a u.s. citizen also ,i was born in the states(saint louis) and lived for 5 years there(i have a u.s. citizensip) , my father lived for 24 years there and became also a u.s. citizen as well as my grandfather(who is 104 years old as we speak)and his father also(unfortunately he is not alive).I used the example to show that although truth might sometimes be regarded"objective", justice isn't.
What we understand as objectively true might not be ,consider also that we judge from what we already understand and that we still
use only a 10% of our mind capabilities , so perhaps in 100 years from now we might believe that the center of our solar system
is mars or plouto or i don't know what else.
Truth isn't a black or white situation.
in the kosovo war Greek's believed that it was a macachre but nato including our goverment(in it's external politics face) had a different opinion so we are still talking about two different instances of truth.The u.s. general who ordered to throw the bombs in hirosima and nagasaki here in Greece is thought as a war criminal as hitler and his allies were, however he wasn't considered as such with the argument that he was in a war situation(?????).As you can see the fact that we are in the same side , then and now, doesn't mean that we have the same opinion about justice and as result we don't have the same perspective of truth.
However to return to the topic that i started , because i am going in another dirrection now , my whole problem was with locking the topic ,not because i was interested in cracked software , which i am not but because i don't see the point in such a measure and personally this is what i wanted to discuss with john and you.
I certainly see why john and many of the users of this forum who are paying for the software(i am one of them) are offended
however we have a saying in Greece for such a situation which in a free translation quotes:if your hand is hurting cut it, and i think that this can characterise such a reaction.I still want someone to explain me about what was achieved with such a reaction.I also believe that many people who responded to kwild were a bit hypocritical because i am not going to be convinced that no one ever, in their lifes
copied an album or a cd or a movie from
a friend for their own use which is exactly the same as using cracked software,not to talk about sampling and using music from another artist for their own work .
I wanted the topic open because it is a truth that many people use cracked software
(kwild said that he was using it to decide whether or not to buy those sofware),i certainly believe that if kwild had the chance to talk to lionel he might change his views on the matter or at least start thinking in that direction, thats the whole
point in discussing with people and certainly it's the only way to acomplish something(one of the points for freedom of speech) you might feel that this a subjective ethic however i stand for this position whatever it's named.You cannot say that stealing or not is a objective issue but values are a subjective ethic because those values define what stealing is , those are the basis , and freedom of speech is one of them.If i understand what you wrote you said that kwild wasn't censored because he could talk about anything exept than illegal actions, if so this were have a different view , for me freedom of speech has no butts(i am kidding with the second t)correct me though if i misunderstood your writing.

PabloFasan · Post by **PabloFasan** » Sat Sep 29, 2001 12:02 pm

I could agree with you only in a very few things.

Is real that poor people and countries will not wait to see their sons dieing of hunger and misery without reacting.

The recent events that happened in NYC, show that many people is disposed to fight. without regarding how bloody could be their methods, this is the result of the economic system rules that the Rich North exploit and the Poor South suffer.

Probably Europe and USA citizens could disagree with this opinion , but as we read in the newspapers of all the world , this is the opinion of the majority of the rest of the world (4.600.000 of the near 5.800.000 of the world's inhabitant live in the sub-developed South)regarding WHO's information.

BUT, is a LONG LONG distance between to break the laws for survive, than to do it for satisfy the fancy of to have the last version of the last music program for to have fun.

NO POVERTY could justify this, mainly due those of us that begin our music carees before the computer and synths era, know that's perfectly possible to create good, for not to say WONDERFUL music, without any machine, using only the own instrumental ability and composition knowledge.

Peezahj · Post by **Peezahj** » Sat Sep 29, 2001 12:46 pm

4.600.000 of the near 5.800.000 of the world's inhabitant live in the sub-developed South

When you add in the 1.2 billion Chinese people, there must not be any Americans & Europeans left to bitch about! According to Marxist theory, we shall eventually evolve out of capitalism & you into a greater degree of capitalism, anyway, so just wait & everything will be as it should be.

Air_PoLLo · Post by **Air_PoLLo** » Sat Sep 29, 2001 6:04 pm

I'm not sure if CCS are involved with Creamware, but it's worth asking.

check http://www.copyrightcontrol.com see if they can assist us closing down warez sites.

Btw, anyone have pulsar warez for mac?

just kidding.

PabloFasan · Post by **PabloFasan** » Sat Sep 29, 2001 6:04 pm

To Peezahj
?????????????????????????????

[ This Message was edited by: PabloFasan on 2001-09-29 19:07 ]

[ This Message was edited by: PabloFasan on 2001-09-29 19:08 ]

Air_PoLLo · Post by **Air_PoLLo** » Sat Sep 29, 2001 6:09 pm

Que pasa Pablito?

Air_PoLLo · Post by **Air_PoLLo** » Sat Sep 29, 2001 6:11 pm

I'm not sure if CCS are involved with Creamware, but it's worth asking.

check http://www.copyrightcontrol.com see if they can assist us closing down warez sites.

Btw, anyone have pulsar warez for mac?

just kidding.

algorhythm · Post by **algorhythm** » Sun Sep 30, 2001 7:19 am

peripatitis wrote:
What we understand as objectively true might not be . . .
Truth isn't a black or white situation. . .

The objectivity of truth does not necessarily hinge on binary catergorization. The position I am attacking is that "all views are equally true." For instance, the Theory of General Relativity is quite a good physical model, quite better than Newtonian physics, but it is likely that a unified field theory, or quantum gravity would be better than General Relativity (ie. greater correspondence with observable reality). The point of all this that, while there might be a more accurate physical theory, the most accurate one currently available is more true than other theories, and should be used for obtaining knowledge. In this sense, it is objective, but not absolute. I guess my question is, what do you mean by objective?

As you can see the fact that we are in the same side , then and now, doesn't mean that we have the same opinion about justice and as result we don't have the same perspective of truth. . . .

Actually, I am quite convinced that it is exactly the opposite. We have differing theories of truth, and our theories of justice are different as a result (because metaphysics and epistemology are philosophically prior to ethics).

You cannot say that stealing or not is a objective issue but values are a subjective ethic because those values define what stealing is , those are the basis , and freedom of speech is one of them.

What then of cross-cultural values? What of species wide values? The fact that value is determined subjectively does not mean that ethics cannot be objective (that is, if the values are shared). I think you are confusing "absolute" with "objective" and "relative" with "subjective."

enough about all of this already. let's take this private, if you wish to continue. this stuff hasn't a thing to do with pulsar.

kwild · Post by **kwild** » Sun Sep 30, 2001 10:23 am

A lot a people smells of shit in that place...
I try to explain me better,but repeat,it's too difficult to me.
I want know if 3.0 version works with cracked devices for a simple question : leave it on my system or clear it from my system!
With or without cracked devices im still a pulsar user of course,coz in my works a don't use no cracked device!That's is the true.i use a lot of free devices like celmo's (very greats) and a lot of others but i don't rememba to use for a real music production work any of my cracked plug-ins (SPL Attacker is the only i use and im thinkin to buy it for sure!).
That's my last reply...fuck of to all the people that don't have understanding nothing about my post and think to say what i must to do,what i must to say or what im try to say (rememba,my english is real bad and it's very difficult to me explain what i really want to say) that people really make the world go round...with their idiotism!
Ciao!

kwild · Post by **kwild** » Sun Sep 30, 2001 10:39 am

Captain Dickus...
"OH and fuck fuori di y consiga una vida"
????
What?u are the father of all idiots out there...what are u tryng to say with that?
What u are wrote is a kind of Italian?
ah,ah,ah,ah....Ur brain is full of shit...
your igniorance makes me laugh.
im not stealing nothin,fuck u bastard!
I'm sure that u are the son of a bitch that sends me virus and toys for kidz like u...
What a poor idiot.

marcuspocus · Post by **marcuspocus** » Sun Sep 30, 2001 10:57 am

Hi Kwild, to be fair, i have to say that i tryed those cra..ed devices also, but i didn't use them in my projects, just for making sure my projects would always works, whatever the upgrades creamware give us.

So i think i have made the good choice of NOT using them at all. It is true the only one that i would have buyed is the SPL Transient Designer, VERY VERY usefull one for all Drums related tracks and samples. Maybe i'll get this one sooner than later. And I also LOVED Celmo devices, have you tried the 'Guitar Bluesman' ?

Now I use v3.0, and those cracked thing don't work at all no more, then again, i've made the good choice of not using them at all, all my project still work perfectly, and i won't have to miss updates cuz of those cracks.

And as a mater of fact, the new Pulsar v3 give me more than all those cracked thing.

I know lots of people do not like this fact, but it is true that a bunch of people are using those devices but not talking about it. Shame on them, as they are fooling themself thinking they have the right to cuz of this, and that, and others opinions.

All can be resumed by : Be consistent with your belief, mine is that honesty ALWAYS PAY OFF, one way or another. If your not consistent with your belief, you are only fooling yourself. And if those are NOT your belief, well, i only have pitty for you.

Stay clear headed, and make the next big hit with Pulsar and be proud of it!

I am far from a pro

, but i like what i do, whatever others think. And for me, this is the pro spirit.

_________________
Marcus Pocus
The king is ALIVE!

[ This Message was edited by: marcuspocus on 2001-09-30 11:58 ]

lionel_talkover · Post by **lionel_talkover** » Mon Oct 01, 2001 1:53 am

I'm kind of new in this forum but it's starting to be ridiculous in this topic.
Kwild, I don't think ther's something against you, but the words you used makes people react "crack", "fuck you bastard", that's all. We can continue in this ways thousands replies.
Music is just a matter of ideas, I prefer listen to what people do with pulsar in the music section (with or without cracks) rather than read comparisons between terrorism and cracked softwares.

kwild · Post by **kwild** » Mon Oct 01, 2001 5:32 am

Well...
Someone call me terrorist coz im talking about cracks.
I use words like "f**k you" and others like that only for defend me from attacks of other peoples that don't have understand nothing about the real sense of my post.
Somebody call me stealer,cracker,terrorist...all that shitheads makes me hurt and i think i must defend my self,or not?
Best regards.

kwild · Post by **kwild** » Mon Oct 01, 2001 5:34 am

marcus....
yes the celmo blues it's very great.
It sound REAL!
Celmo is a great developer.
See Ya!

lionel_talkover · Post by **lionel_talkover** » Mon Oct 01, 2001 7:53 am

ok...