Out of nostalgia question JBridge usage

[Nestor]

Anyone into JBridge?
I would like to use some of my old stuff x86 again, is it stable or should I forget about it? Cheers.

[Nestor]

It doesn't seem to be popular around here, does it?

[Bud Weiser]

I never used it.

I only know,- Cockos Reaper has the very best built in 32Bit bridge available out there !!!

[Nestor]

Thank you Bud, I've tried Reaper long ago, cool, but MIDI was (in those days), pretty unprecise. I got back to the old good Cubase, because of MIDI. I was just thinking in some of my old plugins that I would like to have back, but..., nothing truly urgent to have, just some nostalgia for them

[Bud Weiser]

Reaper is free to try "for a long time" ...

Today, it´s on release candidate 2 for Reaper v6.83 https://forum.cockos.com/showthread.php?t=283383
... and on RC 8 for upcoming Reaper v7.0 https://forum.cockos.com/showthread.php?t=283344.

It got a lot of MIDI love already before and I don´t have any problems using it as a VST2, VST3 and CLAP host playing all the VIs I own.

P.ex. I use to run ll the modern 64Bit VSTis in harmony w/ Sonic Projects OP-X Pro II x86 (to keep MIDI porgram changes functional).
The x86 version souds exactly the same than 64Bit VST2 and VST3 which both lost that functionality.

It´s also the only DAW application showing NO problems w/ SCOPE/XITE v7.0 64Bit ASIO driver !

I own Studio One Pro 4.6, Reason 10.4 and latest 11,- also tried free DAWs,- Tracktion Waveform free and whatelse.

I don´t use much MIDI-Out w/ Reaper though.
But MIDI-Out to ext. hardware is somewhat problematic w/ Windows systems anyway,- especially when comparing to MIDI timing and jitter from old ATARI and old Mac systems.
And it also depends on connected MIDI interface hardware.
Many is average or crap.



Bud

[Nestor]

I had been working for a long while with Studio One, till version 5 and something, but then Cubase implemented such MIDI capabilities that I could not resist to go back (I was into Cubase since the beginning of times), I did go back, and now I will stay here forever, I can feel it. MIDI in Cubase goes a looooong way, it is amazing, I'm afraid it is the best in the marked. The MIDI Remote Mapping Assistant, for instance, it is a dream come true.

Now, isn't it bizarre that such a super DAW does not have a solution to add 32 bit VST and 32 bit VSTis on it? I doubt it is a tech limitation, I would say it is probably a commercial aim, don't know, but if Cubase had a 32 bit JBridge kind of upgrade, that would be a real plus for many of us and lots of people would cross the street to hook into Cubase I think.

[valis]

Almost all DAWs supported 32bit for quite some time after the transition, dropping it was done to simplify code maintenance I am sure,

Host things in a 32bit version of Bidule externally, and route that via scope. That's what I do, in fact the version of Bidule that works with scope's driver is older so using the Scope PC for older plugins made sense to me.

[Bud Weiser]

MIDI in Cubase goes a looooong way, it is amazing, I'm afraid it is the best in the marked. The MIDI Remote Mapping Assistant, for instance, it is a dream come true.

I knew almost everyone of the "MIDI pioneer times" Steinberg crew as also founders of C-Lab/Emagic in person.
Both companies were in my hometown when I worked as a session artist late 70s, 80s ´til mid 90s.

So, I had Cubase ATARI too and many Synthworks ATARI programs.
Still have some ofthese,- and ATARIs too.
I sold the latest Cubase ATARI 3.x and red Midex (for ATARI) hardware because I prefered C-Lab/Emagic Notator.
I did beta testing for Notator(SL).
Still have everything,- Notator SL and C-Lab/Emagic hardware, Combiner, LOG3, Untitor2.
Emagic Logic ATARI too.
It´s the best MIDI timing you can get from a computer ´til today.

I jumped on Logic Audio 4 for Mac (G3) and on Cubase SX3 later,- when Apple bought Emagic and I wanted to use PCs.
But when Pinnacle and later Yamaha bought Steinberg, times changed.
They refused upgrading my Cubase SX3 and Wavelab 4.01b "because I decided for upgrading too late",- in their opinion.
The wanted meto buy all new.
That was it for me.

Same happened to me w/ Waves, just only because I didn´t buy and follow THEIR Waves Update Plan (WUP).
Lost the "Renaissance Special Edition" bundle that way.
These were all expensive toys in the past and I was pi##ed.
Since then, Steinberg and Waves are my "no go" enemys for the rest of my life and I´ll never ever buy any product regardless how good it may be.

Today, the best MIDI program w/ notation editor is still Apple Logic,- but my last version is Emagic Logic Audio Platinum 6.x.x (I forgot the exact version number).
Running on Mac G4 w/ RME Hammerfall 9636 and a MOTU MIDI Timepiece II,- it is still a MIDI workhorse.
But because of age,- for audio not so much.

Now, isn't it bizarre that such a super DAW does not have a solution to add 32 bit VST and 32 bit VSTis on it? I doubt it is a tech limitation, I would say it is probably a commercial aim, don't know, ...

For sure it is.
There aren´t much companies sacrificing manpower to maintain old code.
Not doing it saves money,- they say.

But,- looking at Cockos, the company coding Reaper,- it´s only 2 people and their stuff runs on Win XP, Vista, Win7, 8, 10 and 11,- 32Bit and 64BIt program versions incl. a 32Bit bridge for the 64Bit versions.
And it runs on current Mac and Linux in addition !

And I see what Holger is doing almost alone w/ SCOPE ... a similar scenario like Reaper,- at least across all the Windows OS versions.

So I wonder why big companies cannot do the same when they pay dozens or hundereds employees.

Studio One is o.k., but not really on par w/ Cubase and Apple Logic when it comes to MIDI.
Studio One Pro doesn´t talk sysex,- a big mistake for users w/ aged MIDI hardware.
Windows MIDI timing is so-so anyway, depending on computer hardware and ext. MIDI interface quality.
Apple is better with this,- at least "out of the box".
For me, it was interesting to read latest Logic version does support the "old" AMT technology again and consequently the ancient Emagic Unitor and AMT USB MIDI interfaces.
These, w/ Logic running on Mac, delivered excellent MIDI timing always nd worked w/ LTC/SMPTE in addition.
Tape MTRs became poüpular again,- so makes sense.

But when building PC DAW systems w/ some computer hardware experience, you can get it stable and low jitter.
But that time investment isn´t for everyone, especially not for professional users who want to buy and WORK.
For some, time is money.



Bud

[Nestor]

Almost all DAWs supported 32bit for quite some time after the transition, dropping it was done to simplify code maintenance I am sure,

Thank you Valis, I didn't know it was difficult.

Host things in a 32bit version of Bidule externally, and route that via scope. That's what I do, in fact the version of Bidule that works with scope's driver is older so using the Scope PC for older plugins made sense to me.

I don't even know what Bidule is, thank you, I'll check it out

[valis]

I don't even know what Bidule is, thank you, I'll check it out

If you need to run it directly with Scope (as I do), you'll need to purchase a key and use the version I mentioned here: "I am able to use hosts like Bidule (currently, versions that have an older implementation of portaudio. 0.9760 and before, 32bit) without issue. I have little need to use plugins that my primary DAW machine(s) can host." - from 18 months later with scope as a standalone

Also mentioned briefly here: VCV rack2pro and Scope 7 BSOD or hang on loading rtaudio

If you purchase a key, the developer will offer legacy versions upon request via email. Note: as far as I know, current versions will not work as a 32bit bridge by running as a plugin inside your 64bit host, you will need to run standalone. If you have a soundcard in addition to Scope, it should work fine with even the current version, which can be run without a key as a beta which expires (usually there's a gap of a few months before another version is released, after the beta expiration, to encourage people to purchase a key).

[Nestor]

The result of all this for me has been rather unexpected. I went to see what Bidule is capable of in YouTube, I watched a few videos and the like, very interesting and flexible bridge really, to do so much, but..., it means more stuff to be learned, more money and more complications for my mind, so I decided to simplify even farther, I give up with 32 bits all together brothers. In the other hand, I was very happy learning some of Bitwig 8 track that came with the Nectar keyboard, but things go fast in here and when I have a job, I cannot be learning something meanwhile, I ended up uninstalling it too .

I decided to keep Cubase for the rest of my life, and I know I can do anything I want with it, even without the old plugins, so I feel released in fact, by the decision. Music is much more important than gear and software, so I prefer to concentrated in what I love a little more.

I appreciate and thank you guys, for the explanations received here, in this thread, but I want to simplify and keep walking forward Cheers.

[Nestor]

There is a VERY important problem I commented a long while ago, abut Cubase being out of time with MIDI, everything is written slightly before the real time you hit the key. It is my only complain about Cubase, but it is an important one. I have done everything possible, following the advice from Steinberg themselves, none of their advices where successful, they say the problem is writhing Windows, but there are many hundred people with the same problem and nobody can conclude exactly what it is.

I have an idea that came to my mind recently, I will try to fix the problem with is, and then will come back to you if I'm successful, so you all can solve this miserable problem.

[valis]

All DAWs are subject to this, it's been a long time since I used Cubase but in Logic (all versions) there's a setting in preferences to compensate, and you can compensate a positive or negative amount (normally you shift this to account for the audio buffer delay you are 'playing along with', but being placed before means something is incorrectly reporting latency elsewhere).

[Nestor]

Cubase has its compensation method but it doesn't work, among other adjustments that are related, but no help either.

[Nestor]

https://www.soundonsound.com/techniques ... g-problems

[Bud Weiser]

https://www.soundonsound.com/techniques ... g-problems

We don´t have 2007 anymore and I don´t recognize much (if not any) jittery timing when playing softsynths in realtime w/ p.ex. Reaper as the host,- or Tone2 NanoHost64, Plogue Bidule abd whatelse.
I use USB MIDI IN via controller keyboards as also parallel port and USB Midi interfaces offering 8x8 5-pin DIN MIDI I/Os as also MIDI I/Os from RME Babyface, RayDat or SCOPE XITE-1 MIDI Input.

Most significant issue is Windows MIDI Out,- not MIDI In.



Bud

[Nestor]

Cheers Bud

You guys KNOW A REAL LOT about all these technical things it is overwhelming, I'm just a musician fighting with technology to be able to compose I'm doing pretty well, but this MIDI timing thing IT IS important.

I've fond something really revealing, just by chance:

I had never disabled, in my whole life, the MIDI Thru in the Preferences tab in Cubase. With MIDI Thru inactive, I get PERFECT TIMING, but not sound.

What I mean is that, while MIDI Thru is inactive, I have no audio at all, but MIDI signals do flow correctly to Cubase and I can record. Now, how could I get the needed audio feedback without the MIDI Thru?

[Nestor]

PROBLEM SOLVED


After MANY years of cooking my mind in hot oil and trying so many Steinberg forum advices, the support center, advices from fellow musicians, etc., I finally solved this important problem in the weirdest of ways

Being totally honest, I did not solve the problem because of my knowledge of how MIDI works or because I’m a genius in any way, I solved it by mere coincidence trying out parameters without even understanding what I was doing.

Uffffff, I'm so happy I did it man, uffff, that was a long ride of tediousness in here. I changed to Studio One for a few years because of that and I was planning to get into Bigwig now for the same reason. Bitwig it is truly great but never as much as Cubase when it comes to MIDI capabilities, nothing compares to Cubase, honestly, in the MIDI field, no other DAW in fact.

I had so much work to do every time moving MIDI parts by hand to make them stay in their correct timing place, but that was something bad you know, because it made me lose lots of time and momentum.

Why nobody told me in Steinberg forums about this parameter, perhaps I missed it myself, anyway, I got into the forum and there are 825 topics about this very parameter, so no surprised it is difficult to find. But here it is:

Go to EDIT then PREFERENCES, then go to RECORD then MIDI, (withing the same “record” tab), now you can see a field called: “MIDI Record Catch Range in ms”. This was set to 100 by default, I changed it to 300, (which is the maximum amount I can reach) and voila…, the problem is gone! Now MIDI timing is perfect, tight, tight, tight, tight…, hehehehehe, yes, tight!!!

Till now, this was a hidden parameter I had never looked after. There it is the answer for those guys out there having the same problem than me, that is, MIDI notes being written BEFORE the time you have hit your keys, which is bizarre because it should be impossible. I guess this parameter it is sort of a MIDI compensation somehow, yet another one. Please, tell anyone having this problem this fix, I will in the forum itself

[Nestor]

I'm glad I started this thread, as it lead me to fix this BIG problem in Cubase, totally unexpected but happy end