CV to analog audio input

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JoPo
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CV to analog audio input

Post by JoPo » Sun Apr 08, 2018 3:20 pm

Hi.

I made some search about this but as often, the planet Z search function ignores 3/4 of the words !

I'm trying to catch CV signal into my Scope system. As usual, I'm SO naïve ! I believed that it would be as easy as thru ASIO between Scope & my daw.

But apparently, it's not ! So... What do I need ? Some kind of CV to audio input converter ? I find plenty of audio to CV converter but not a lot of CV to audio... Just that one for the moment :
http://expert-sleepers.co.uk/es2.html

My CV signal is good. I an see it in my analog heat mod input. But I can't see it in Scope. Are all analog audio inputs filtering DC signals like outputs ?

Need help. I'm entering in not known area. Thanks.
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DragonSF
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Re: CV to analog audio input

Post by DragonSF » Mon Apr 09, 2018 3:33 pm

You have to AM a carrier wave with the CV, send it to scopw and use an envelope follower module to decode the am signal.
And yes, all outside audio seems to be AC coupled.

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Re: CV to analog audio input

Post by spacef » Tue Apr 10, 2018 12:53 am

I am waiting for an Expert Sleeper ES-3, for the other way, to send audio through ADAT to CV (I finally made the plunge after all those years thinking about it).

Without it, I would need a DC-coupled audio interface to get a useable signal recognized by the PC as digital audio, and this is generally not the case with audio cards. I think only Motu has/had such connections. Or it is mods by people or companies in elecronics.

I made researches, asked questions, and at the end of the day, for me only Expert sleepers provide CV/Audio/Midi stuff at a resonable price.
So there is no other solution (there are other manufacturers of course but it is generally more expensive).

I will use it to build CV stuff in Scope.

ANd you? what do you do with CV sent to the Computer?

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Re: CV to analog audio input

Post by spacef » Wed Apr 11, 2018 9:27 am

+ you need a eurorack case for the power supply (99€ the cheapest.... or DIY).

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Re: CV to analog audio input

Post by dawman » Wed Apr 11, 2018 1:47 pm

Black Lion Audio does the ADA-8200 conversion which turns the analog outs into DC coupled.
The unit cost about 650-700 total cost + modification.
I use an A16 Ultra and Z-Links plus the BLA ADA-8200.

And folks wonder why I like XITE-1s.....

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Re: CV to analog audio input

Post by Xite Knight v2.0 » Sun Apr 15, 2018 10:21 am

Expert Sleepers ES-6 is a DC-coupled input and it allows your external CV to control your Scope stuff easily - Trust me, I got 2.

However, the ES-6 requires an ES-3 (DC-coupled output) next to it for clocking.

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Re: CV to analog audio input

Post by spacef » Thu Apr 19, 2018 7:28 am

shameless plug: " let the fun begin :-) " (some work ahead :-) )
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Re: CV to analog audio input

Post by spacef » Thu Apr 19, 2018 7:31 am

I remember in the eighties I was shocked that some synths did not have midi but CV only.... in 2018, it looks like a lot of people still use or are new to CV..... (the consequences of Eurorack and synth revival ? )

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Re: CV to analog audio input

Post by spacef » Sat Apr 21, 2018 12:49 am

did you try this ?

""" Silent Way CV Input
Silent Way CV Input provides a means of getting control voltages from an analogue synth into the computer, which is not normally possible since the DC voltages of CVs are blocked by the inputs of all current audio interfaces. Once inside the computer, CVs can be recorded, or processed as any other signal before being output back to the synth. ""

but you need to do something like this which is more limited than one of their module:

http://www.expert-sleepers.co.uk/siwaacencoder.html

so you need some kind of hardware signal conversion anyways....

I have no experience in that though

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Re: CV to analog audio input

Post by JoPo » Thu Apr 26, 2018 4:17 am

DragonSF wrote:
Mon Apr 09, 2018 3:33 pm
You have to AM a carrier wave with the CV, send it to scopw and use an envelope follower module to decode the am signal.
And yes, all outside audio seems to be AC coupled.
That's what Ido for the moment. And I've found this woraround by myself, alone, without any help a genious frlash of lightning ! :D

Sorry to answer to my (!) thread with that much delay but I'm very busy ! I'm starting my eurorack mess.
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Re: CV to analog audio input

Post by JoPo » Thu Apr 26, 2018 7:20 am

spacef wrote:
Tue Apr 10, 2018 12:53 am
I am waiting for an Expert Sleeper ES-3, for the other way, to send audio through ADAT to CV (I finally made the plunge after all those years thinking about it).

Without it, I would need a DC-coupled audio interface to get a useable signal recognized by the PC as digital audio, and this is generally not the case with audio cards. I think only Motu has/had such connections. Or it is mods by people or companies in elecronics.

I made researches, asked questions, and at the end of the day, for me only Expert sleepers provide CV/Audio/Midi stuff at a resonable price.
So there is no other solution (there are other manufacturers of course but it is generally more expensive).

I will use it to build CV stuff in Scope.

ANd you? what do you do with CV sent to the Computer?
So... You wired the ES-3 to your Scope system via adat directly ? Is working as wished ?

My problem is that all ADAT I/O are busy on my Xite. I made some tests with the Expert Sleepers "instinct", which replaces the ES-1 & ES-2 and with the silent way CV input plugin. It works fine. But you have to go thru asio for entering and going thru the plugin. This adds latency. Same on the other way.

I'd like to be able to in & outpu CVs directly between Scope & my new CV hardware devices. So I'm going to try the Expert sleepers ES-8 : an usb class compliant audio interface, DC coupled. But ! On windows, one can't use 2 asio devices in 1 application such a daw. Pffff ! So, I'll use Voice meeter banana which allows that.

If the "sound card dest/source" Scope module would work perfectly, it would be A-WE-SO-ME for that kind of problematics.
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Re: CV to analog audio input

Post by spacef » Thu Apr 26, 2018 7:58 am

I switched to Z-Link a while ago (Xite to A16 Ultra), so I still have 16 i/o adat free. the ES-3 takes 8 outputs now :-)
I don't know what can be done if you have no outputs left.

The ES-3 works very fine: the range is exactly 3 octaves of pitch (+ 0 to +36 semitones) and the whole filter/volume range of the machines I control. For the moment just my old minitaur and a ms20 mini - so it is correct at least in CV/Eurorack and V/Hz mode and without latency, which is what I would settle for, because I do time based modulators which should be useable live and must be in-sync with the drums etc which can be VST plugins if desired (for those who are not "dawless fanatics" ;-) ) .

The disting is too limited for me (2 i/o for audio to CV only - and you need 2 or 3 per synth, for pitch/filter/volume or more for some synths). not sure i would use the other functions of the disting.

May be try to find a used ES-1 for the outputs?
or an a16-ultra for more i/os if you can use Z-Link. or another pc with a scope board ;)

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Re: CV to analog audio input

Post by JoPo » Thu Apr 26, 2018 2:53 pm

spacef wrote:
Thu Apr 26, 2018 7:58 am
I switched to Z-Link a while ago (Xite to A16 Ultra), so I still have 16 i/o adat free. the ES-3 takes 8 outputs now :-)
I don't know what can be done if you have no outputs left.
I'm starting to handle that thanks to a patchbay : I never use all inputs together.
spacef wrote:
Thu Apr 26, 2018 7:58 am
May be try to find a used ES-1 for the outputs?
I've been searching everywhere with no luck. I've found just one, the version with this stupid DB25 connectors, I'd prefer the jack inputs. Here : https://reverb.com/item/3506501-expert-sleepers-es-1

Anyway, I'll try the ES-8 with voice meeter or VEP.

Maybe one day, a genius will have the awesome idea to make a vst plugin that would send audio to a second audio interface ! That should be possible : Elektron's Overbridge is a vst that send & receives audio from Elektron's hardware, the Virus integration too (but far from perfect !).
For the moment, the only way I know is voice meeter.
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Re: CV to analog audio input

Post by JoPo » Sat Apr 28, 2018 2:53 am

By reading around on Expert Sleepers site about the ES-8 module, I discovered "Audulus", a modular app first for android & ipad (I hate touch screens) and now also for windows. It's a standalone or vst. The standalone interest me : I can setup its audio interface as ES-8. So I'm trying it.

The bad thing seems that everything must be done with mouse ! I prefer jeyboard shorcuts but I can handle with that. And the very very good part is that it comes with a lot of modules ; but one can "enter" in the modules which are build with "atoms" ! For instance, here you have the "basic LFO" inside :
basic lfo.jpg
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So, it looks like Scope SDK atoms or Reaktor core level ! That is very interesting for interacting with eurorack via Expert Sleepers modules ! Opening wide possibilities ! And you can see some text field that give infos & explaination all around. All signal are animated in real time, apparently blue = negative, red = positive darker for high values on all wires and inputs.

I guess I'm going to have a lot of fun with that ! And the price is correct : 51.12€ !

Sounds like a really good application !
> > > > > > > > > > > > --- Musica --> here ! ---< < < < < < < < < < < <

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Re: CV to analog audio input

Post by spacef » Sun May 06, 2018 11:30 am

Looks very technical ;-) I am work on this device to control one or several CV synths (beta only now)
I can also have Pitch bend and modulation remote controlled on the ms20 now ;-)

very quick demo of a beta sorry for the non-HD sound https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gh8tRla6xvU

it's based on the LBH VIII/LBH LE but I am changing many things because the possible extra features keep growing as I dig into each synth way of working.... I am happy to share this mood ;-)

That ES3 was a good buy to bring new fun with those synths ! ;-)

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Re: CV to analog audio input

Post by spacef » Sat May 19, 2018 11:33 am

hi there,

Just for those who did not know (like me) you can find cheaper audio/CV converter by getting a eurorack CV mixer/attenuator that is dc-coupled, and preferably that knows to do both audio and CV. I've seen some modules from Doepfer or Erica Synths and others. They are around 55/60 euros in general, but have 2 i/os in general, so the ES 3 is still the best for price per number of i/os.
The specialized shops will know which ones will do it so ask them. i am sure it does the audio to CV conversion, but not sure it does the CV to audio (not all of them even if the inputs are dc-coupled).

I am getting an Erica Pico VCO. I will use it in MS20 and Minitaur filters. When it it wlll be possible , I'll probably get a DSI Curtis Filter.
Then the rest will be made in Scope to save a lot of money on modulators, VCA etc :-)

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