MOVknott

MCCY · Post by **MCCY** » Wed Sep 13, 2006 6:20 am

The OLD MOVEQ+ version.
This was the final stage with the old interface.
There might be some bugs in it but it works fine too.

The interface is funny. It's so chaotic compared to PIXELBITES work on MOVEQ+!

Martin

voidar · Post by **voidar** » Wed Sep 13, 2006 6:29 am

I think the SDK-agreement specifies that you are not allowed to sell devices constructed with it. For that you need the expensive DP.

I think donation-ware is ok though.

MCCY · Post by **MCCY** » Wed Sep 13, 2006 6:31 am

You're right, but I have an information here which has to be cleared up. I don't want to talk about it too early.

Martin

astroman · Post by **astroman** » Wed Sep 13, 2006 7:46 pm

On 2006-09-13 07:20, MCCYRANO wrote:
...I don't know if I really want to, but it would be a cool feeling having earned 30€ with software-programming in my life ;o). I think of very low prices... should I make it donation-ware??? ...

no need to be shy Martin, one of the purposes behind the free SDK was to find people with your talent...

I'm certain you'll get all the support you need, possibly even a bit more

keep up your good work, Tom

Shroomz~> · Post by **Shroomz~>** » Thu Sep 14, 2006 1:29 am

Thanks, I'll check this out today.

If you want to use these knob designs in commercial devices maybe you should have exclusive rights to the designs? Might be difficult now that they've been given away though, unless we make new customized versions specifically for you.

Anyway, there won't be a problem, so feel free to drop me a PM or an email to the address I gave you before if you want to discuss things in detail.

Thanks again

Shroomz~> · Post by **Shroomz~>** » Thu Sep 14, 2006 1:43 am

Martin, I meant to say that I can't see you getting much more than some beer money from 'donationware'. A better idea imo would be to revolutionize the definition of 'cheap' by charging a very very small fee like 10 euro for each device or up to 20 depending on it's size. This way, even the poorest of musicians here should be able to afford a device occasionally & cost won't stop people from buying your plugs if they want them. If they sound good, look good & are REDICULOUSLY cheap by any standards, they will sell for sure.

astroman · Post by **astroman** » Thu Sep 14, 2006 2:29 am

if you can afford whatever DSP system and a PC to run it, then you don't qualify as 'the poorest musician' anymore.

Donationware and barely for nothing prices have never worked on Scope - Wavelength has left, Mehdi once was about to (and btw was adressed by ROLAND recently...), Warp got better offers, etc... (?)
Not to forget that any money transfer is charged in one way or the other for the procedure itself.

It is true, that it's unlikely to make a fortune by selling Scope plugins, but the news of talent spreads...
Consider that when negotiating

cheers, Tom
ps: in my understanding of the SDK NDA not even a beer is allowed, as it's a monetary advantage, if you don't have to buy it yourself...

[ This Message was edited by: astroman on 2006-09-14 03:36 ]

Shroomz~> · Post by **Shroomz~>** » Thu Sep 14, 2006 3:04 am

You're absolutely right astro. The way I see it, even if Martin makes an arrangement with CW regarding donationware or selling devices, it's still a difficult decision as to how to go about the move away from releasing free plugs. With individual devices specifically being donationware, the likelyhood of getting much in the way of donations is probably pretty slim. Selling devices for any sort of normal SFP price will certainly reduce your user base dramatically & as you mention, lack of sales could easily be very disheartening & even off-puting for commercial devs. These are definately difficult issues to deal with.

Something I've been wondering is if it's at all possible to buy a 2nd hand DP like the one nikko sold on ebay & actually get CW's blessing to use it commercially. Another difficult issue no doubt.

Shroomz~> · Post by **Shroomz~>** » Thu Sep 14, 2006 3:45 am

Holy cow Martin, this is one nice sounding EQ

I've got djmicron's C4T osc in a simple modII synth patch going into an stm with this inserted in one of the stm's mix inserts & WOW! what a sound!!! The input gain distorts in a good way ...all the way.

This sounds excellent (apart from the ssssshh sound)

astroman · Post by **astroman** » Thu Sep 14, 2006 3:55 am

well, I've been in exactly that situation not too long ago and exchanged a couple of emails with CWA in this context.
Bottom line: when you buy a DP you can do with it whatever the original license allowed.
BUT there's no way this software (or it's license) will ever be updated by CWA.

I dunno enough details about the transition of CW to CWA (after the financial trouble), so it (an update) may not even be possible because the original licensor doesn't exist anymore (in legal sense - even if the same persons are involved).

that perspective then kept me away from the purchase - but I was indicated (between the lines) that CWA would never stand in the way if someone developes devices that satisfy commercial demands.
(imho) the point of the NDA is that it gives CWA absolute and exclusive rights to decide, so no trouble with wannabees or spoiling the quality level of commercial software.
Martin is someone that any company (in this domain) would be happy to coop with - he is creative, has original ideas, can work systematically (his TD trial approaches) and last but not least has an almost intuitive understanding of what SDK is about - he kind of 'plays' the developement process...

cheers, Tom

MCCY · Post by **MCCY** » Thu Sep 14, 2006 4:37 am

Thanks for your nice words astroman!
I'm lucky that I started this discussion.
I'm not hasty with all that things and I'm still at the beginning of working with SDK and sound-apps. I also had such a 'between the lines' mail and now I'm curious, how 'between the lines' sounds in lines.

Shroomz, thanks for your response and your estimation of the situation here. I will contact you via mail.

This would be exactly my idea too, to newly define cheap in the pricerange you proposed, but I have that feeling, regarding the SDK agreement, that this won't be my decision if or not.
I'm in the nice position that everything goes very well in my 'normal' life concerning career things right now. So it's an excitingly and open situation for me.

Thanks

Martin

sonolive · Post by **sonolive** » Fri Sep 15, 2006 12:21 am

MC CYRANO,

I CAN SELL YOU ONE OF MY DP'S IF YOU NEED :

PM FOR PRICE
CHHERS
OLIVE

MCCY · Post by **MCCY** » Fri Sep 15, 2006 7:06 am

Thanks Olive!
I had that idea of earning 30€, not loosing thousands ;o). I don't know how many units of a scope-plugin one is able to sell, but I think it is in the range of 0-50. I'm quite sure DP being worth more than 1000€, so this makes no sense for me.
Creamware thinking that my devices are worth selling them would be one necessary condition which 1. would indicate, that I should be able to sell more than 5 units & 2. should enable me to sell them without DP, cause it's just in their interest to have good plugs on board.
DP was a dream for me 8 years ago when buying my first pulsar. I thought of taking a credit and making a buisness out of it. That would have changed my life somehow... interesting, but I don't think that now is the time to take that step 8 years later.

greetings to beloved france & thanks again

Martin

Shroomz~> · Post by **Shroomz~>** » Fri Sep 15, 2006 7:31 am

This device rocks!

Tip: It works as a stereo insert, but obviously if you want the 4 envelope follower ext' inputs, you need to run it standalone!!!

Can't wait for a version without the demo 'hisssss'

Awesome work!!

dawman · Post by **dawman** » Fri Sep 15, 2006 9:32 pm

When it was just a MovEQ it rocked. It makes my Rhodes w/ autopan meander through a mix with stunning effect. I always liked auto panning, but when each pan has a different EQ attached to it the sound travels well. I currently am trying to sync it with a heavy PW/LFO combo on a synth patch from CW's OBX-c.
I agree that these devices in our forum are great. Excuse me for sounding greedy, but I hope no other platform can use these gems, as my signature sounding DAW would be comprimised. SFP cannot be allowed to go obsolete for this reason. If Creamware would just give us a glimpse of the future. And not my prediction for 2015!!

MCCY · Post by **MCCY** » Sat Sep 16, 2006 1:39 am

Hi!
I'm on the best way, selling this device over the creamware-shop.
When it's in the shop, there will be no updating for a longer time, so I have to make it 'perfect' in a way before selling it.
So far it's not my plan to sell more devices. Just this one at this time.

Would it be good to add:
- Stereo movement possibilities? Different EFs for L & R? (or Different EFs but same setting-values)?
- Some kind of matrix for routing EFs to certain parameters
- more EFs
- more inserts somewhere?
- gain between every 2 EQs?
- a meter - window with VUs for every 2 EQs (would be very easy)?
- a panel with visualized movements of values?
- possibility to switch it to mono-mode with taking R-EQs from DSP?
...
- any other ideas?

As I see, i could add some features & then make them removable from DSP. I think the memory usage is not so important and changes not much, as long as I don't add too much guis...

Thanks for your help!

Martin

[ This Message was edited by: MCCYRANO on 2006-09-16 02:48 ]

hifiboom · Post by **hifiboom** » Sat Sep 16, 2006 10:54 am

Hi MC,

without talking bad about your efforts, I would say rework the GUI and arrangement, (maybe ask shroomz for help, he def. is a PRO in this buisness)

I think this plug-in is TOTALLY overloaded with buttons, knobs etc...

Alone the standard surface has too many buttons and knobs I don`t really understand what they are for....

You need a clean and good looking GUI which mainly explains itself....
describe all knobs with text, etc...

best regards and keep going....

[ This Message was edited by: hifiboom on 2006-09-16 11:54 ]

MCCY · Post by **MCCY** » Sat Sep 16, 2006 11:10 am

Hi!
I started finetuning the moving settings (and movement visualisation) now. The device overreacts massively!!! on the small potis.
For me this is NOW the most important part, cause the sound of the device mainly depends on that.
There is still A LOT work to do!!!

The device IS overloaded with potis, I know. But it is a very simple principle behind that knob-arrangement, so in a manual I could explain it very brief (EFs influencing EQsettings: adjustable EFs, adjustable direction, adjustable amount of movement, thats it.). It makes no sense going in detail now, cause maybe there will change something... You're right: I won't sell ANY device, if users don't understand it.

I see various possibilities now:
1. I make it simple looking with presets for movement values (or just one movement setting)
2. I hide all potis, that are not so easy to understand on a new panel
3. I leave it as it is
...
I like small interfaces because of my small monitor. I have to think about all that later. For now as i said, there is still a lot of work to do.

Thanks for your comments

Martin

[ This Message was edited by: MCCYRANO on 2006-09-16 12:12 ]

[ This Message was edited by: MCCYRANO on 2006-09-16 12:29 ]

katano · Post by **katano** » Sat Sep 16, 2006 11:50 am

Martin,

i totally agree with hifiboom. a device should explain itself with the gui, even a complex one.

you should may split the device in different sections - graphic wise, of course - and label them with the functions, so that everyone could see at first sight what i does...

i didn't have the time to try this device yet, but when i look at the gui, i don't understand what it does and what i have to do... don't understand me wrong, i don't want to attack you but helping you to avoid your great effort being worthless when selling devices.

yes, at my opinion, the gui makes at least 50% of a good selling device...

greez
roman

MCCY · Post by **MCCY** » Sat Sep 16, 2006 12:24 pm

updated new version.

Hi katano & thanks for your feedback!!!
Yes, you're absolutely right.
It is VERY VERY IMPORTANT for me to have such feedbacks, cause, before the device can't be understood it's nonsense to sell it ;o).

I'm not a pro and I'm learning very much here.
I think with the new visualisation panel (not final design yet) everything should be clearer by now.

Compared to my MOVeq classic: Is it the same problem with that surface or is thatone kind of self-explaining?

Martin

P.S. My problem is, that my aim was to have every poti which is important for spontanious tweeking should be on one Panel.
I will try to rearrange the device, but I can't promise that I will succeed...

I thougt a manual would be helpfull, cause when you understand the principle of this device it is quite clear, what what is for. We'll have to give it a try, but today I won't have the time for a manual...

[ This Message was edited by: MCCYRANO on 2006-09-16 13:29 ]