Hi,
I was trying to recreate the original Pro5 patches on Noah Profit 5. The results sounded really strange so I looked into the service manual for Prophet 5.
Filter and Amplifier Attack, Decay, Release on Noah's goes from 0 = 1ms, 5 = 8.192sec, 10 = 16.392sec lineary.
Original Pro5 has a different control:
0 = ~1 ms
6 = 1 sec
10 = "greater than 20 sec"
As I remember it then its more like an exponential function and not lineary.
Reference:
http://www.physicsenterprises.andrews.e ... _04_06.gif
This means that we can not reuse original Patch sheets without making a conversion table or Creamware to correct the controls.
I don't really know which is "best" but with only a 128 level control (why not use the 16k range instead?) it might not be posible to "exactly" reproduce original Pro5 patches.
Profit 5 A,D and R not working as original Prophet 5!?
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The question here would be: what original P5? Revision? Basically, CW claims that its emulations allow to use your old patch sheets...
The Profit-5/Pro-12 is modeled after a Rev2 Prophet-5 (this is at least what CW says, even if magazines use to write that it's a Rev3 model, as SoS recently did... )
The Profit-5/Pro-12 is modeled after a Rev2 Prophet-5 (this is at least what CW says, even if magazines use to write that it's a Rev3 model, as SoS recently did... )
Rev 2 uses SSM 2050 EG chip which also has exponential approach from 1ms to "over 10 seconds".
Most Rev 2 SSM data-sheets here:
http://users.cybercity.dk/~dsl110182/ssm2020.gif
http://users.cybercity.dk/~dsl110182/ssm2030.gif
http://users.cybercity.dk/~dsl110182/ssm2040.gif
http://users.cybercity.dk/~dsl110182/ssm2040d2.gif
http://users.cybercity.dk/~dsl110182/ssm2040d3.gif
http://users.cybercity.dk/~dsl110182/ssm2040d4.gif
http://users.cybercity.dk/~dsl110182/ssm2050.gif
http://users.cybercity.dk/~dsl110182/ssm2050d.gif
Most Rev 2 SSM data-sheets here:
http://users.cybercity.dk/~dsl110182/ssm2020.gif
http://users.cybercity.dk/~dsl110182/ssm2030.gif
http://users.cybercity.dk/~dsl110182/ssm2040.gif
http://users.cybercity.dk/~dsl110182/ssm2040d2.gif
http://users.cybercity.dk/~dsl110182/ssm2040d3.gif
http://users.cybercity.dk/~dsl110182/ssm2040d4.gif
http://users.cybercity.dk/~dsl110182/ssm2050.gif
http://users.cybercity.dk/~dsl110182/ssm2050d.gif
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Henrik, not sure if you're are interpreting these dtata sheets correctly...On 2006-06-14 10:22, Henrik wrote:
Rev 2 uses SSM 2050 EG chip which also has exponential approach from 1ms to "over 10 seconds".
Most Rev 2 SSM data-sheets here:
http://users.cybercity.dk/~dsl110182/ssm2050d.gif
As far as I understand it, there are two voltages (not the times!) that are exponential:
- the input voltage(s) from the pot
- the output voltage of the EG chip
What comes into play in the first case is0 that a typical analog potentiometer outputs an exponential voltage when turned in a "linear fashion". I hope you understand what I mean.
kybernaut
I see where you are going
Yeah the Z80 reads the pot (being linear or exponetial or whatever), converts the read value to something that controls the EG chip. So I can't really use the datasheet of the EG chip without also looking at what the Z80 software behaves on whatever it reads from the pot
So what I am interesting in here is:
Does Noah's Pro5 A D and R match with the behaviour of the original Prophet 5
a) Rev3 is not linear (0=0.001s, 6=1s, 10=20s)
2) Noah is linear (0=0.001s, 0.6 = ~1s, 5 = ~8s, 10 = ~16s)
Ã) Rev 2 and Rev 3 both have EG chips with exponential translation of control voltage to time of the A, D and R timings.
Does anyone have a real Prophet 5 and can compare against Noah Pro5? I can't make any original Prophet 5 presets sound correct unless I adjust the ADR pots a lot.
So my plan was to understand how to translate original Prophet 5 patch-data (midi sysex) into Noah Pro5 midi CC# data and write a program that sends those original Prophet5 patches to Noah.
Yeah the Z80 reads the pot (being linear or exponetial or whatever), converts the read value to something that controls the EG chip. So I can't really use the datasheet of the EG chip without also looking at what the Z80 software behaves on whatever it reads from the pot
So what I am interesting in here is:
Does Noah's Pro5 A D and R match with the behaviour of the original Prophet 5
a) Rev3 is not linear (0=0.001s, 6=1s, 10=20s)
2) Noah is linear (0=0.001s, 0.6 = ~1s, 5 = ~8s, 10 = ~16s)
Ã) Rev 2 and Rev 3 both have EG chips with exponential translation of control voltage to time of the A, D and R timings.
Does anyone have a real Prophet 5 and can compare against Noah Pro5? I can't make any original Prophet 5 presets sound correct unless I adjust the ADR pots a lot.
So my plan was to understand how to translate original Prophet 5 patch-data (midi sysex) into Noah Pro5 midi CC# data and write a program that sends those original Prophet5 patches to Noah.
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I see While I don't have a original Prophet -5, I can tell you something else:
Rumour has it, that Anna Lüse from CWA recreated the original Prophet patches for the Pro~12. This probably means taht some adjustment ist necessary due to subtle part variances or whatever.
But still, CW's claim of correctly interpreting patch sheets is there. I also remember that some testers from certain magazines verified that with Minimax and Pro~One and reported that it works pretty accurate. So why should this not be the case for Pro~12?
Rumour has it, that Anna Lüse from CWA recreated the original Prophet patches for the Pro~12. This probably means taht some adjustment ist necessary due to subtle part variances or whatever.
But still, CW's claim of correctly interpreting patch sheets is there. I also remember that some testers from certain magazines verified that with Minimax and Pro~One and reported that it works pretty accurate. So why should this not be the case for Pro~12?
Check out John Bowen's new semi-modular prophet if you haven't already. He's posted a screenshot .. <a href="http://www.planetz.com/forums/viewtopic ... 0">HERE</a>
Okay all this seems to be a User Interface issue. I trusted the numbers written by the NOAH PC SW.
Doing some quick oscilloscope measurements with Amplitude Attack:
1-2 ms at 0
1 sec at 5.8 or so (so close enough to real prophet 5 specification)
around 16 secs at 10.
so sorry for the disturbance. It seems to work quite close enough. Phew
Doing some quick oscilloscope measurements with Amplitude Attack:
1-2 ms at 0
1 sec at 5.8 or so (so close enough to real prophet 5 specification)
around 16 secs at 10.
so sorry for the disturbance. It seems to work quite close enough. Phew
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