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 Post subject: Re: Waow !
PostPosted: Tue Jan 05, 2016 2:56 pm 
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I had a dx7II, and I loved it. I liked the Keyboard. Some people say, the dx7 Sounds diffrent, more dirt.

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 Post subject: Re: Waow !
PostPosted: Tue Jan 05, 2016 3:04 pm 
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I bought the DigitalAudioSoft fm bundle for scope, but this is Not a dx7,it is different and Sound really wonderful,, but can Not replace a dx7. I guess i miss the hum and hiss :P

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 Post subject: Re: Waow !
PostPosted: Tue Jan 05, 2016 3:06 pm 
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Yes,

It's a very good keyboard. This one is a keeper until it dies, then I'll fix the PSU or buy another one. There is software out there trying to emulate the Yamaha sound, but it just doesn't do it justice. You should know. It can be extremely expressive if you assign and tweak your controls right. I got rid of a lot of junk... like ahm I hate to say this the Jup-6 the real thing. It was fun. But only MIDI on/off yeah. Between S|C synths, Zarg, and Diva, I have the 5000$ jupiter sound covered. I don't miss it. I would be expensive to fix. I looked at some parts and just the VCO goes for something like $100. So if it has 12 VCOs, do the math. Oh yeah, Access Virus B keyboard version sounded like a joke come on. Extremely weak oscillators and extremely weak filters, the only thing was the unique sound. Had no reason to keep it. I compared the Virus to Minimax, and the virus was gone very quickly. Actually, even the older plugins that come now with Scope 5.1 sounded a lot better.

-Tom


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 Post subject: Re: Waow !
PostPosted: Tue Jan 05, 2016 3:07 pm 
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anabella wrote:
I bought the DigitalAudioSoft fm bundle for scope, but this is Not a dx7,it is different and Sound really wonderful,, but can Not replace a dx7. I guess i miss the hum and hiss :P


Yes, I have the DAS FM bundle. It's not even close and eats up all my DSP :(

-Tom


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 Post subject: Re: Waow !
PostPosted: Tue Jan 05, 2016 3:36 pm 
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You have a Jupiter 6!WOW
but its Dead, urgh, Beileid

I tried the ni fm7 a joke! This sucks and fm8 also fucked sound

I caught the zarg bundle, its awesome.

Im lucky to invite the fm bundle for all you can eat dsp breakfast, because I have loaded 45 in my pc

But 1997 I started with 6 dsp pulsar

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 Post subject: Re: Waow !
PostPosted: Tue Jan 05, 2016 4:08 pm 
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Location: ghetto by the sea
http://www.vintagesynth.com/yamaha/dx1.php


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 Post subject: Re: Waow !
PostPosted: Tue Jan 05, 2016 4:11 pm 
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Yes,

I am well aware of the DX1, but who has that kind of money for something that probably doesn't sound all that much different than the cheap DX7? It's probably good just for show. Who would have enough room to put that thing anywhere :lol:

-Tom


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 Post subject: Re: Waow !
PostPosted: Tue Jan 05, 2016 4:21 pm 
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Dx1 what a unnecessary machine, but I like this package

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 Post subject: Re: Waow !
PostPosted: Tue Jan 05, 2016 4:22 pm 
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anabella wrote:
You have a Jupiter 6!WOW
but its Dead, urgh, Beileid

I tried the ni fm7 a joke! This sucks and fm8 also fucked sound

I caught the zarg bundle, its awesome.

Im lucky to invite the fm bundle for all you can eat dsp breakfast, because I have loaded 45 in my pc

But 1997 I started with 6 dsp pulsar


No, it's not dead. I sold it in mint condition for about 1000$ over 10 years ago. I am not missing it. The keyboard on it was probably worse than one on my high school casio keyboard. No modulation wheel, just a button. Pitch bend stick was fun. It need about 10 minutes to warm up before you could press the 'tune' button then it would stay in tune. It was extremely easy to program. Some unique features like turning on more than one waveform on at the same time. The filter was out of this world. Really crazy sounds, but it could also sound nice and gentle on pads.

Oh, BTW, I also have 45x ADSP21065Ls and DAS FM07 eats them all up for breakfast lunch and dinner :o

-Tom


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 Post subject: Re: Waow !
PostPosted: Tue Jan 05, 2016 4:27 pm 
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@Anabella,

Do you have some F07 patches you would like to share with me/others? I played around with the synth and I couldn't get it to sound the way I wanted. FM is not easy :(

-Tom


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 Post subject: Re: Waow !
PostPosted: Tue Jan 05, 2016 4:47 pm 
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tlaskows wrote:
DXII is newer so it will sound better ...


define "better" ... :D

Well, I owned the original (old) DX7 and it was cool at that time.
But, there´s a lot of hiss, a very small and originally not illuminated display.
It´s mono and lacks a lot of MIDI features too.

There came the desktop-synth TX7 which already was able to store more "functions" !

The TX7 then became the basis for the TF-1 modules you find in a TX816 MIDI rack,- a rack featuring 8 TX7.

The old DX7 has some grid in the audio coming from 12Bit DAC "and what DX7II doesn´t have"- so they say ...
I don´t miss that grid too much but some do.

DX7mkII sounds better in the sense of tech progress,- it has 16Bit DAC.

I sold my DX7 and bought a DX7mkII FD,- the one w/ a floppy drive built in.
It sounds great and comes w/ advanced features, p.ex. stereo output, panning features (LFO or fixed), 4-voice detune and a pitch bend feature alowing bending only one note from an interval like guitar players can do.
In Performance Mode it plays single, dual or split sounds and in opposite to orig. DX7 transmits MIDI on 2 freely selectable MIDI channels as well as receives MIDI on 2 freely selectable MIDI channels.
You can at least assign 1 slider to any user MIDI CC number and do the same to 2 connectable MIDI CC pedals and 1 of the momentary foot switches.
These sliders and pedals and switches act as MIDI and internal controllers simultaneously !

tlaskows wrote:
... and probably not have those stupid membrane switches.


It has real buttons/switches and a larger display.

tlaskows wrote:
There's also an FD version with a floppy drive, but you don't need that.


I needed it when performing live.
It was cool to have a disk w/ sounddata always inserted as a backup.
During rehearsals when I edited sounds and performances, I updated backups directly on that disk.
You wwere able loading small sysex dumps from other machines as well and store.
The drive in my DX7mkII FD works fine until today,- and I bought it new in 1987.
Meanwhile it got a original display replacement as well as all new tact switches and it seems it will possibly survive myself.

tlaskows wrote:
FM Alive is $20 and has almost 20,000 patches. Sysex works just fine.


You can use "Dexed" VSTi as a DX7 sysex editor for all 6-OP models and grab most patches ever available here ...
http://asb2m10.github.io/dexed/
Scroll down to "Cardridge Manager" and download [url]Dexed_cart_1.0.zip[/url]
Some sub-folders are empty but already named after the original ROM card manufacturer and ROM card title,- so they wait until they find ´em and update the pack.
But most is there already !

tlaskows wrote:
And of course the TX802 with separate output for each voice.


Don´t ignore the rackmounts.
The TX802 isn´t the best at all and even it comes w/ 8 single outs it will never replace the TX816 which is 8x16 voices simultaneously.
The TX802 is also not the same as a DX7mkII, just because it lacks features like the 4-voice detune of the DX7mkII.
The 4-voice detune and the pitch-bend feature I mentioned above is what makes a DX7mkII unique !

I kept the TX816 for the sound of the old DX/TX and because it´s still a monster.
I use the DX7mkII different soundwise and as a MIDI controller as also bought a TG77 rack, replaced the display for a LED one and fly.
TG77 is a killer FM box, featuring samples from internal ROM as modulator in advanced FM algorithms and up to 4-part playback performance (2 AWM + 2 FM p.ex.).
The low-end is amazing !
TG77 is exactly the same FM as SY99, but SY99 has the sample set of TG500 !
So, have a TG77 and buy a TG500, that´s what I did and was much cheaper.

FS1r is much more advanced FM + formant filters, but in general sounds already different from all the others even it reads/converts DX patches.

All the rack units since TX802 are and sound different and none (except TX816) sounds like a DX/TX7.

And Dexed VSTi (freeware) is the one and only sounding like a old DX7,- in addition using an analogue LP filter emulation borrowed from OBXd https://obxd.wordpress.com/ and which is great.

Dexed (running on Win / OSX and Linux) is so light on CPU, it runs fine on a poor VMachine.
So, when you have such toy in the closet,- I have,- use it as a DX7 desktop unit w/ Dexed.

:)

Bud


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 Post subject: Re: Waow !
PostPosted: Tue Jan 05, 2016 4:56 pm 
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I tried out Dexed, less than 1% of the patches sounded almost the same. The rest was far off, nothing like when I loaded the patch on my DX7s. Yes, it has some edit features, but it's missing a lot of them. FM Alive has a free trial. Download it and see what I mean. It's a way better editor (so I think). It lets you pick which version of the DX7 you have so it shows you the appropriate options. I am saving up 20$ to pay for it grrrrrr :o

-Tom


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 Post subject: Re: Waow !
PostPosted: Tue Jan 05, 2016 5:42 pm 
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tlaskows wrote:
I tried out Dexed, less than 1% of the patches sounded almost the same. The rest was far off, nothing like when I loaded the patch on my DX7s. Yes, it has some edit features, but it's missing a lot of them. FM Alive has a free trial. Download it and see what I mean. It's a way better editor (so I think). It lets you pick which version of the DX7 you have so it shows you the appropriate options. I am saving up 20$ to pay for it grrrrrr :o

-Tom


I posted Dexed because it´s free and because of all the patches you can grab from that site.
Do it.
It´s tons of the commercial stuff you payed a kingdom for in the past.
Whether you like these sounds or not is a different story, but there are also most cards from "KeyClique" and other famous sound designers from the past.

Once loaded as "cardridges" in Dexed, auditioning patches and editing is much, much easier than in a hardware DX7.
So use the software, store and export to hardware, NI-FM8, Reason FM synth or whatever is able reading sysex.

I understood you own a DX7s which is not the original old DX7.
Is that correct ?

The DX7s and DX/TX sound different because the DX7s is already a DX7 mkII.

The original DX7 (like Dexed) is not the same editing features you find in DX7s, DX7mkII and DX7mkIIFD and DX7 is different converters than DX7s.

No wonder Dexed and DX7s sound different and parameters are missing.

http://www.vintagesynth.com/yamaha/dx7ii.php

I myself, owner of old computers, have the very best editors for DX and TX machines ever coded.
Steinberg Synthworks DX/TX and C-Lab X-alyzer for ATARI ST.
They already work for DX, TX, TX816 and DX7 mark II series synths.
But there´s also C-Lab Polyframe for ATARI ST and the follow up Emagic Sounddiver 3.04 for MacOS 8.6-9.2.2.
And there´s Opcode Galaxy and Galaxy Plus editors.
I have ´em all and the machines they need to run,- but none of these is VST.

Dexed is a nice addition because inserted in a VST MIDI track it transmits MIDI to the outside world when connected to a outboard hardware DX/TX synth.
Up to now it has a few bugs, but they are working on the 0.9.1 update actually.
http://www.kvraudio.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=1&t=413885&sid=94eac228e0e595c36a8f1e6de6d91ee4&start=1050

Any 0.x version number to me means, it´s still in some beta state and will getting better.

But in opposite to many other, also commercial, plugins, it´s very good already even it´s in beta state.

FMalive is good too though,- I know it !

:)

Bud


Last edited by Bud Weiser on Tue Jan 05, 2016 5:44 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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 Post subject: Re: Waow !
PostPosted: Tue Jan 05, 2016 5:43 pm 
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Ohhhhje tom i remember, you are the gut who wanted to sell your 45 dsp Set.

Never Do this again. :wink:

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 Post subject: Re: Waow !
PostPosted: Tue Jan 05, 2016 5:56 pm 
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Yes, Bud Weiser.

My DX is basically an mkII. Yes, dexed was able to load patches fine few months ago. But I miss the important missing parameters. If dexed is emulating the original DX7, that exactly why it sounds nothing like my DX7. Hey, it's free and I did try it. It sounds good, but I don't want a software DX7. I shelled out the big bucks and got a real one with keys that I can just walk up to and hit a note on :) I haven't found my favourite note yet... they all sound pretty good :lol:

-Tom


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 Post subject: Re: Waow !
PostPosted: Tue Jan 05, 2016 5:57 pm 
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tlaskows wrote:
Yes, I have the DAS FM bundle. It's not even close and eats up all my DSP :(

-Tom


It seems, emulating Yamaha FM is DSP hungry always.
It still is in my Kurzweil PC3 series synth too.

It´s cool we got CZ Oscs in Modular 4, just because Casio PD in fact is almost the same than Yammy FM.
Sounds weird but is true.
But also w/ Modular, there´s not much polyphony, so no replacement for any hardware FM/PD synth when you are a keyboard player.

Bud


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 Post subject: Re: Waow !
PostPosted: Tue Jan 05, 2016 5:58 pm 
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anabella wrote:
Ohhhhje tom i remember, you are the gut who wanted to sell your 45 dsp Set.

Never Do this again. :wink:


Do you want to buy it so I can get an Xite-2? Just joking, it's not for sale for a quite a long time. :)

-Tom


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 Post subject: Re: Waow !
PostPosted: Tue Jan 05, 2016 6:00 pm 
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Bud Weiser wrote:
tlaskows wrote:
Yes, I have the DAS FM bundle. It's not even close and eats up all my DSP :(

-Tom


It seems, emulating Yamaha FM is DSP hungry always.
It still is in my Kurzweil PC3 series synth too.

It´s cool we got CZ Oscs in Modular 4, just because Casio PD in fact is almost the same than Yammy FM.
Sounds weird but is true.
But also w/ Modular, there´s not much polyphony, so no replacement for any hardware FM/PD synth when you are a keyboard player.

Bud


Casio just used a different name. They basically are implemented the same way, a lookup table. The only reason for them sounding different would be if the lookup table is a bit different and if the algos are a bit different.

I did play with the Casio oscillators in Modular 4. I really really like them! I see a lot more potential to a nice sounding 4 OP FM synth now that we have these oscillators.

-Tom


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 Post subject: Re: Waow !
PostPosted: Tue Jan 05, 2016 6:06 pm 
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Ah shizer,

since we are way off topic again because of my ADD, I think I have a pretty good idea why the FM style synthesis uses so much DSP.

In a Yamaha and Casio the waveforms are just a lookup table. Precalculated... they just use addition to modulate the carrier with the modulator. It's easy on the CPU/OPL chip whatever yamaha used. In Scope, the FM is implemented the good old school analogue way. It doesn't use phase modulation. It uses frequency modulation which will eat up a lot of DSP.

I am pretty sure I am close to being right. I've read about the yamaha patents a long time ago.

Cheers,

-Tom


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 Post subject: Re: Waow !
PostPosted: Wed Jan 13, 2016 3:15 pm 
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not to distract you from Modular, but Stephen Hummel once made a great PD Synth, Gemini-PD
it's a part of the archives Mr. Arkadin compiled here
simply sick... :D

cheers, Tom


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