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 Post subject: Anybody interested in Hardware cv converters?
PostPosted: Sat Aug 11, 2012 6:17 am 
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Hi all,

As they have been some discussions allready about silent Way, Modding of a16, Building Adons to get dc Output on converters etc. I would like to See how Big the demand of such Thing is in this Community. I use digital cv's to Control analog for a few years now with Adat converters and just ordered an xite, so i am gonna be a scope modular User soon... As i have more Outputs than and solutions over exiting Audio converters has always been a hassle there are some Adat converters in Development (for personal use only at this time) that can send and Recive cv's up to +-10volts. Of cause they can handle audio too- just no difference as in analog domain.There is a similar Modul from expert speepers but with Outputs only wich realy Holds up the fully Integration of analog modular stuff in a digital Environment.. Espacaly with the Low latency of scope modular it could make sense to go fully Hybrid... There are further Things that can be made with it than just cv Modulation... Sample accurate clocks for example to sync. Oder maschines... Also analog controls with 24 Bit Resolution would be possible... Maby some New Moduls should be developed too for best Integration in scope modular Environment...

So i like to know if there is a serious interest here in such converters that it might be a reason to just make some more and offer them for Sale instead of just Build them for our own.

Awayting your Feedback!


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 Post subject: Re: Anybody interested in Hardware cv converters?
PostPosted: Sat Aug 11, 2012 6:34 am 
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Count me in, as I have ADAT converters to spare now, and Silent Way really has polyphony problem with Scope Modular.
It does work though.
I am intersting in having my rackmounted Ananlog controlled by CV as the 0-128 MIDI doesn't work as well as I'd like.
I actually love the resolution of the faders on my BCF, and would love to send LFO's to there first, or just send them to the hardware, either way would be extremely beneficial for me live.

In 2013 Scope 6 will be the Talk Of THe Town.....

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http://soundcloud.com/jimmyvee/sets/sol ... akt-tunes/


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 Post subject: Re: Anybody interested in Hardware cv converters?
PostPosted: Sat Aug 11, 2012 1:11 pm 
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It would definetly be a smart expansion for Scope modular as it would allow modular geek to go hybrid and start combining the flexibility and sound available from both Scope and analog modular...

The ADAT solution is quite a good idea there. I already thought about modding a z-link Luna 2496 for that purpose but too many thing else to do first.

Just a thought there: making the Z-Link protocol open would be great as this si not used in any SC or Ferrofish hardware anymore, unless Juergen si cooking a Z-Link converter for us ...


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 Post subject: Re: Anybody interested in Hardware cv converters?
PostPosted: Sat Aug 11, 2012 2:13 pm 
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i would be interested

like jimmy said the silent way does not like poly from scope modular

but it is nice for sending out a mono synth from scope to an analog filter


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 Post subject: Re: Anybody interested in Hardware cv converters?
PostPosted: Sun Aug 12, 2012 10:32 pm 
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http://www.gearslutz.com/board/electron ... dular.html

Tomy Lee looks like he scored. Although I want a simple dual LFO modualtion, the LFO rates on the SE-1X are way too fast.
THis would give me the sound and control I want, and maybe Modular can be of use with getting me some really snappier Envelopes.

http://soundcloud.com/jimmyvee/double-modulations

Notice the Decay is modulated at a different rate than the CFM.
This is why I alternated form Sustaining a Low note on the section in the key of C, and a high note in the key of E flat. The Decay is at a 10hz difference than the CFM, and imagine this powerful old beast getting controls in realtime like that. I could actually improvise, and adjust the rates on the fly, change the LFPO from BiPolar to retriggered or UniPolar, etc.

Sahweeet.

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 Post subject: Re: Anybody interested in Hardware cv converters?
PostPosted: Mon Aug 13, 2012 7:16 am 
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Interesting... So i dont realy understand how a dedicated converters would help on the expert sleepers polyphony Problem ...however.


Last edited by Zimbo on Thu Sep 06, 2012 5:36 am, edited 1 time in total.

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 Post subject: Re: Anybody interested in Hardware cv converters?
PostPosted: Mon Aug 13, 2012 5:41 pm 
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A SHARC processor is used on the Infinte Respons VAX77 Controller, and it implements 0-16000 MIDI 2 spec.
I could really notice this in the amount of velocity layers I could trigger manually w/o a WeakQuencer.
Using that spec as a source for parameter modulations would be nice, but I am not sure if it would still be steppy/zipper-ish.
I like it when really long sweeps can be heard perfectly evolving and perfectly smooth, whatever that takes is OK with me.
If Klaus and JBowen got Solaris to do this I am sure we can figure out a way in the SDK to have the same features.

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http://soundcloud.com/jimmyvee/sets/sol ... akt-tunes/


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 Post subject: Re: Anybody interested in Hardware cv converters?
PostPosted: Tue Aug 14, 2012 12:11 am 
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Talking about Copperlan, there is already this Copperlan ready product:
http://www.alyseum.com/product_MS-812.php?PHPSESSID=6857f8d32e36ca53f79578cef2e8f76e
providing 8 CV out + 12 Gate out from a Copperlan interface for 305 € (w/o VAT+shipping).

So already something that would offer a solution to control external modular or analog gear from Scope as soon as Copperlan integration module would be available (Scope 6).

In a modular polyphonic context (not the most spread use of modular), triggering multiple notes and CV control to other parameter would be similar to triggering multiple set of monophonic analog modular gear by using for example for each voice:
- 1 CV out for pitch
- 1 Gate out
- any additionnal CV outs to control a number of parameters.
- any additional number of Gate out if other events have to be manage apart from note trig

In such context, the MS-812 would "only" allow 8 voices notes trig with no other control or 4 voices notes trig + velecity for example.

The Expert Sleepers ES-3/ES-5 combo provide from a single ADAT out cable:
- ES-3 provide 8 CV out for 219 €
- ES-5 adds 8 Gate out to the ES-3 for 115 €

So I feel the polyphonic use case would probably not be the most obvious case.

But combining a Scope modular with an external analog monophonic modular setup or vintage synth would be cool though.
MIDI could still be the note control way while CV interface would provide some advanced modulation interfaces


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 Post subject: Re: Anybody interested in Hardware cv converters?
PostPosted: Tue Aug 14, 2012 2:24 am 
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Midi 2... Not shure what to think about. I think One Problem using standart midiports is the timewhise Resolution. Its ok to transmit a few Parameters that you can play with two hands i think. but if you let some lfos and Envelopes Play i think the bandwith is just too Limited for Bunch of Smooth modulations at the Same Time.
Also Depending on where the Modulation Goes its often smoothed Out at the Destination side (without that Kind of Features there would be much more complayning about Midi i guess)


Last edited by Zimbo on Thu Sep 06, 2012 5:40 am, edited 1 time in total.

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 Post subject: Re: Anybody interested in Hardware cv converters?
PostPosted: Tue Aug 14, 2012 4:02 am 
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Well I look forward to getting the type of control and audiorate modulation I get with Solaris, but pump it out as an LFO to an external Analog synth, which has filtering that still cannot be replicated in a modern day DCF/DCO rig.
Solaris is as close as I ever heard, so I know the audiorate Modulation is crucial.
Too bad about 0-16000 though, as that is great for multi layered/multi sampled instruments.

Just wondering why Sync seems to be void of such stepping....?
THis is why I use Sync in Scope so Much, as it actually has so many more variations than my SE-1X, and in many cases sounds better due to the flexibility....

Ont thing is certain, I like FAT BASTARD synths, so anything that can further enhance control or quality, I will find a way to pay for it.

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http://soundcloud.com/jimmyvee/sets/sol ... akt-tunes/


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 Post subject: Re: Anybody interested in Hardware cv converters?
PostPosted: Tue Aug 14, 2012 4:35 am 
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Maybe start with a behringer ADA8000, since they are cheap and available everywhere, and have 8 channels for both I/O, and ADAT interface.

That'd actually be cool...removing the AC coupling and making it DC compatible, and also upping the drive voltage to 5 or 10vpp.


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 Post subject: Re: Anybody interested in Hardware cv converters?
PostPosted: Tue Aug 14, 2012 3:13 pm 
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jksuperstar wrote:
Maybe start with a behringer ADA8000, since they are cheap and available everywhere, and have 8 channels for both I/O, and ADAT interface.

That'd actually be cool...removing the AC coupling and making it DC compatible, and also upping the drive voltage to 5 or 10vpp.


That could be a good option. Found some relevant info and links here


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 Post subject: Re: Anybody interested in Hardware cv converters?
PostPosted: Wed Aug 15, 2012 4:03 am 
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Well, i allredy did some Research on converters regarding this-
If you want to work with an existing converter i recommend The Marian adcon 8 ch i/o. It can putout dc without any Modifikation and can be found used for arround 100 Euro (249,- new) With Amplifikation behind it it Works well for cv Outputs. So if somebody is happy to ad a Board with Amplifikation its about the cheapest Solution and the Inputs are Not Bad at all for Audio. If you have a Eurorack modular and you are happy with Outputs only i recommend the expert speepers Adat converter- nö additional work for High voltages and LEDs showing you whats Happening on the Outputs- very nice.

the Big Problem when Moddling converters (as also the Case with the adcon as well as behringer) is the Input side. The Filtering in done on the ad Chip and nö Way to come arround... The only Way is using vcas on a highfrequent signal moldulated with the cv and Redoute the Level in digital Domain and translate it to dc....i did that in max msp- might or should be possible in scope modular with a realy fast Envelope follower too...

It works but thats not realy elegant- i have one Adat converter, two additional Boards and 2 powersupplys as well as a Lot of cabeling just for 8 Cvs...

Question to Dawman: as i understand you want to Modulate external Filters and stuff Not the other Way round ( and i totaly Agree that Filters are One of the Things that still works best in analog) you could allready do that with the expert speepers Modul, right? As there are Mixers in scope modular accepting Control and Audiorate they should work as Control to Audio converters and be able to Route an lfo to an Adat Out??? Or Even simpler Solution? I am just guessing as i still have nö scope Hardware here to Test anything... I also think the fact that the lfos on the Studio Electronics are so fast and cant go lower is the Same reason why some would like to get digital generated CVs with a higher bitdepth than Midi offers- i guess the internal Modulation on the se1x are Not more than 12 Bits- wich Works to hear No steps in the Modulation- as Long as it dont get too Slow...


Last edited by Zimbo on Thu Sep 06, 2012 5:44 am, edited 1 time in total.

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 Post subject: Re: Anybody interested in Hardware cv converters?
PostPosted: Wed Aug 15, 2012 8:48 am 
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Zimbo wrote:
Also analog controls with 24 Bit Resolution would be possible


This is interesting. Would be great to have smooth control without the latancy / accuracy issues of control smoothing. What are you're thoughts on how this could be achieved on the cheap with an AD converter.

Not sure if it would be possible but a controller with 16 knobs and ADAT outs hooked up to the modular MRC could be awesome


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 Post subject: Re: Anybody interested in Hardware cv converters?
PostPosted: Wed Aug 15, 2012 10:48 am 
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On second thoughts I've got an idea how higher resolution input might be possible without stealing any audio i/o's. :wink:


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 Post subject: Re: Anybody interested in Hardware cv converters?
PostPosted: Wed Aug 15, 2012 2:23 pm 
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sharc wrote:
Zimbo wrote:
Also analog controls with 24 Bit Resolution would be possible


This is interesting. Would be great to have smooth control without the latancy / accuracy issues of control smoothing. What are you're thoughts on how this could be achieved on the cheap with an AD converter.

Not sure if it would be possible but a controller with 16 knobs and ADAT outs hooked up to the modular MRC could be awesome


I dont know about mrc- is it the dedicated controlwindow for a modular Patch in scope? As Long as this is a object thats editable in sdk 6 it should Not be a Problem- i allready used motorized Pots on an adcon converter to control max msp in 24bit 96 kHz. But as the High Rate of 48 kHz if faaaaaaar more than needed for a Pot or fader it would be Good to Multiplex- i mean for Manual controlls 3khz Rate would be enough - so ist should be possible to transmit 16 knobs over just One Channel of Adat (i mean Channel Not Kabel) maby using 4 Bits for adressing leaves 20 Bit for control... Still far enough ... But multiplexing over the actual audiooutput... Nö idea if Things like this can be done in the sdk as its realy low Level Programming... Awsome if it would be possible...


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 Post subject: Re: Anybody interested in Hardware cv converters?
PostPosted: Wed Aug 15, 2012 2:25 pm 
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sharc wrote:
On second thoughts I've got an idea how higher resolution input might be possible without stealing any audio i/o's. :wink:



.. So i would Love to hear it, as Long as its Not a Secret...


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 Post subject: Re: Anybody interested in Hardware cv converters?
PostPosted: Wed Aug 15, 2012 3:26 pm 
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Great, Sharc is back !!! Anything related to BC Modular ?


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 Post subject: Re: Anybody interested in Hardware cv converters?
PostPosted: Wed Aug 15, 2012 3:39 pm 
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Zimbo wrote:
sharc wrote:
Zimbo wrote:
Also analog controls with 24 Bit Resolution would be possible


This is interesting. Would be great to have smooth control without the latancy / accuracy issues of control smoothing. What are you're thoughts on how this could be achieved on the cheap with an AD converter.

Not sure if it would be possible but a controller with 16 knobs and ADAT outs hooked up to the modular MRC could be awesome


I dont know about mrc- is it the dedicated controlwindow for a modular Patch in scope? As Long as this is a object thats editable in sdk 6 it should Not be a Problem- i allready used motorized Pots on an adcon converter to control max msp in 24bit 96 kHz. But as the High Rate of 48 kHz if faaaaaaar more than needed for a Pot or fader it would be Good to Multiplex- i mean for Manual controlls 3khz Rate would be enough - so ist should be possible to transmit 16 knobs over just One Channel of Adat (i mean Channel Not Kabel) maby using 4 Bits for adressing leaves 20 Bit for control... Still far enough ... But multiplexing over the actual audiooutput... Nö idea if Things like this can be done in the sdk as its realy low Level Programming... Awsome if it would be possible...


Mmmm.... 8)

A few questions:

- Does that use just one input on the adcon leaving the other 7 free to be used for audio?

- Are there any interference / crosstalk issues when you use both hands on those controls?

- To help determine if it's possible in Scope as it stands can you describe how you would treat the signal at the Max/MSP end?


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 Post subject: Re: Anybody interested in Hardware cv converters?
PostPosted: Wed Aug 15, 2012 3:43 pm 
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Zimbo wrote:
sharc wrote:
On second thoughts I've got an idea how higher resolution input might be possible without stealing any audio i/o's. :wink:



.. So i would Love to hear it, as Long as its Not a Secret...


Not a secret as such. It involves something that's currently in development that I wouldn't want to give too much away right now though. Also, there are a few drawbacks and the (imminent?) release of Scope6 could open avenues to an easier solution.

What I can say is that it would likely be limited to a control surface solution. It would connect via USB. It won't use any MIDI standard and would be targeted at Scope & Xite although not necessarily exclusively.


Last edited by sharc on Wed Aug 15, 2012 4:25 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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