Modular IV VST MIDI Clock Module

Anything about the Scope modular synths

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dawman
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Modular IV VST MIDI Clock Module

Post by dawman » Mon Feb 07, 2011 12:05 pm

Modular IV VST MIDI Clock Module seems to work fine in Reaper.
I want to modulate an excellent Orchestral String Instrument called
LASS written for Kontakt, and run as a VSTi inside of Reaper.
I went to the VST directory of Reaper, used the " Insert A Virtual
Instrument In Track " option, where the Scope VSTim.dll appeared,
arranged some rather nifty routings, and Voila....
The BPM synced up immediately and now I shall start building Modular
devices for the chores I need done in Reaper and Kontakt.

Now I can modulate my external Analog synths Filter and Envelope
settings per tune instead of winging it.
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Tau
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Re: Modular IV VST MIDI Clock Module

Post by Tau » Mon Feb 07, 2011 8:31 pm

Doesn't seem to work in Live... When I press "Sync", it always goes to 88.

How do you connect the vstclockmodule with modular? :-?

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roy thinnes
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Re: Modular IV VST MIDI Clock Module

Post by roy thinnes » Tue Feb 08, 2011 1:59 am

thanks JAV for pointing this out.
it works in Live too.
just copy Scope PCI/Additionals/Modular4/VstPlugIn/ScopeVSTClock_VSTPlug.dll into your vst plug in folder and draw this plugIn into a Live track.

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Re: Modular IV VST MIDI Clock Module

Post by roy thinnes » Tue Feb 08, 2011 5:28 am

I made some tests regarding vstClock sync & timing.
this is what I've found out:
-vstClock may be convenient because you don't have to type in the correct bpm. but timing-wise it is as bad -or even worse- than the usual midiClock/divider combination. so ramp/sync modules are still the way to go if you want to have tight timing.
-[ot] for retriggering, you have to use a MVC module. what I've found out is, that the new MVC C module is much more sluggish than the old MVC A.
Image
(right channel audio is a kick used as a timing reference)
all of the above just concerns sequencer module timing. as for the frequency output of the vstClock (eg for LFOs), it will be useful and perfectly working, as no retriggering is needed.

dawman
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Re: Modular IV VST MIDI Clock Module

Post by dawman » Tue Feb 08, 2011 8:10 am

Thanks for the examples Roy.
This is good to know about the MVC C being a slug.
Perhaps the nifty unison features and retriggering option cause the performance to be so noticable.
Would this mean that using the Flexor Ramp/MVC A along with the MVC C would be optimal...?
And what about having your MVC CwM for the nifty MIDI CC controls too.
Is is feasable to have all 3 of these in a patch for various chores to get the best results..?

In the XITE-1 I have so much overhead, and it really seems that Modular is just the best optimized device still.
I can recall modules with DSP assignments from other projects and they retain their DSP placement, I can also go way past the usual ployphony restrictions of the cards and make those infamous Alfonso/at0m Modular towers of death like Flexosaurus, even the whacky patches from the chap from Israel, can't recall his name offhand, are easily loaded and played.

What Say You...?

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Tau
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Re: Modular IV VST MIDI Clock Module

Post by Tau » Tue Feb 08, 2011 9:06 am

Thanks, Roy, but no luck yet. I had already copied the dll to the vstplugs dir, and inserted it in Live (it seems to be seen as an audio effect), but it doesn't seem to communicate with Modular. Pressing Sync always sets it back to 88.

The Timing measurements are very interesting, will do some experiments later on. I have been trying out the silent way plugs, using audio to simulate CV and gate signals. Sounds good, and may be tighter than MIDI, just have to take those measurements.

Cheers,

T

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Re: Modular IV VST MIDI Clock Module

Post by dawman » Tue Feb 08, 2011 10:31 am

Odd thing I have discovered.
I used the VST MIDI Clock inside of a Modular Patch where the original
patch was already sending LFO rates to external synths. etc.
Even though there was no connection from the modules inside of the shell
to the MIDI Out, MIDI Out from the shell in the project window is where
I must connect to other devices and modules.

Trying the VST MIDI Clock in an 8 channel ASIO Modular Mix patch where
my Reverb and Chorus are used in OcatMix AUX Channels causes it not to
link up, and resets to a value of 1...?

I am not sure if this from having new settings in Reaper where I am running
Audio. MIDI and Video, but I will waste a few hours trying to figure this out.
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roy thinnes
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Re: Modular IV VST MIDI Clock Module

Post by roy thinnes » Tue Feb 08, 2011 3:05 pm

-JAV: the tightiest solution has not been tested here: an audio ramp on a separate track (see here, bottom how this is done).
runner-up is MvcA (or MvcCwm) triggering a Flexor Seq module. All others, esp. w/ VstClock, are more or less inacceptable IMHO.
-Tau: strange that it doesn't work in your setup. here's a snapshot of my Ableton TestVstClock LiveSet:
Image
I didn't copy any other dll file like VPlayDll or VRecDll btw.
In Ableton Preferences, Sync (which is MidiClk), is turned off, because you don't need it.
-[OT]Concerning MvcC vs. MvcA I made a quick test if and how the "normal" performance (when triggering notes) differs: almost not at all - MvcC is slightly faster.
Image
-JAV again - really strange, please keep us informed what's going on here..

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Tau
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Re: Modular IV VST MIDI Clock Module

Post by Tau » Wed Feb 09, 2011 12:34 pm

Nope, doesn't work... Tried with and without XTC enabled. Thanks for helping, anyway. It even gets weirder, yesterday, when pressing "sync", the VSTClock Module would show 88, but now it goes to 1, just like JV's... Better contact S|C directly.

I did make some experiments with the MVCs A and C. I didn't find much difference between them, though something interesting happens in Live (I have already contacted them twice about this, but no answer): If I send the MIDI notes directly to Scope MIDI->MOD IV, then record via ASIO in, I get between 1 and 2 ms delay (MOD connects directly to ASIO, not mixer). But if I use the External Instrument plugin (to use Delay Compensation), and record that in the same way, it records 11 ms AHEAD (11ms before the beat)!!! Freezing this track, then flattening it (Live's way of rendering a track to audio), gives a delay equivalent to recording from the MIDI in (1-2 ms). I cannot really understand this, but I know about it for over a year now. Last time I tested this, I noticed that by using the External Instrument plugin, the offset between trigger and recording was much more consistent than just using MIDI out.

But the most accurate way to trigger a note via MIDI seems to be to use the Silent Way Voice control plugin. By triggering MOD IV this way, then recording the ASIO input, all notes are spot on the beat. Really spot on (maybe a very few samples off, just fractions of a ms), and consistent. From now on, I will not use anything else, especially for triggering the most timing-sensitive parts (drums and bass)...

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Tau
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Re: Modular IV VST MIDI Clock Module

Post by Tau » Wed Feb 09, 2011 8:57 pm

While experimenting a bit more with different MVCs, I found something weird: I can't get a steady stream of quarter notes out of modular if I use the MVC C and a Flexor Envelope, even with the Flexor Esync module... Timing is all wrong... If I use the MVC A, it plays fine.

I tried Flexor's Vintage ADSR, CW's Vintage ADSR and CWm's Vintage Fast ADSR CW, all with MVC A, C and Silent Way CV Gate.
This is the only combination that's troublesome. Can anyone replicate it? :-?

Thanks!!

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Re: Modular IV VST MIDI Clock Module

Post by Yogimeister » Tue Oct 06, 2015 10:27 pm

Lol ... Yup !

(Just started exploring Flexor last night and bumped up against this problem (made a pure-Flexor synth , and of course I went straight for the MVC C ....)
Crazy offsets/delays ...

I tried using a SC envelope for the VCA and Flexor envs for the filters - the SC was solid - the Flexors were still all over the place ....

Put it aside and did some searching today - and came across this thread ... :)

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