Successful Full Range with Silentway Voicecontrol

Anything about the Scope modular synths

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tomylee
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Successful Full Range with Silentway Voicecontrol

Post by tomylee » Sat Dec 18, 2010 5:34 am

Hello,

For the Silentway users out there:

Has anyone sucessfully got the voicecontroller to work for more than 3 octaves with silentway voicecontroller?

I have a thread at the silentway forums running, ended up recording and reading the output values of the MCV freq for the full range, the list with the values so far is here, I just am not able to manually edit the calibration file, since it seems to use some special codes which my notepad editor cant show, neither does openoffice...

http://www.muffwiggler.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=25963

with automatic calibration you only get about 3 octaves which is not enough for ma perfectionism ;)

anyone any experience on this?

cheers
tomylee

edit: with the help of the maker of silentway it got sorted out, my file was not having unix line endings. downloaded totaledit, read all values and here it is, the calibration file all modusers need :)
Attachments
Silent Way Voicecontroller Modular III MVC Oscillator FREQ Calibration DATA.txt
connect out 1 of voicecontroller with freq in of one of your modular oscillators, and it will just track fine - load this file as the calibration file in voicecontroller.
(1.86 KiB) Downloaded 206 times

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Neutron
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Re: Successful Full Range with Silentway Voicecontrol

Post by Neutron » Wed Dec 22, 2010 10:48 am

Do you have enough output from your audio interface? Most modular and other cv based synths need up to +10 v for the full range, and even Professional +4db interface would not even come close to that.

Since you are controlling a scope device, try putting an amplifier in between the audio and the cv in.

tomylee
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Re: Successful Full Range with Silentway Voicecontrol

Post by tomylee » Wed Dec 22, 2010 11:12 am

i just control modular III for now - but thanks for the tip - dont most modulars use 0-5V?

jksuperstar
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Re: Successful Full Range with Silentway Voicecontrol

Post by jksuperstar » Wed Dec 22, 2010 11:17 am

Something like this might provide the voltage level shift you need:
http://www.cgs.synth.net/modules/cgs46_sba.html

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Neutron
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Re: Successful Full Range with Silentway Voicecontrol

Post by Neutron » Wed Dec 22, 2010 9:22 pm

tomylee wrote:i just control modular III for now - but thanks for the tip - dont most modulars use 0-5V?
they use 0-5 volts for triggers, -+5v for signal and 1 volt per octave for voltage control, only going up to 5v means only 5 octaves.
try putting a fixed 6db amplifier in your modular right after the "control voltage" input.

tomylee
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Re: Successful Full Range with Silentway Voicecontrol

Post by tomylee » Mon Jan 03, 2011 6:59 am

which voltages can the a16ultra output?

yes I need 10V in order do control modulars, would it be difficult do mod a creamware 16u to do just that?

would love to have that baby do it since it would integrate well with my scope environment!

:)

cheers and happy new year!

tomylee

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Neutron
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Re: Successful Full Range with Silentway Voicecontrol

Post by Neutron » Mon Jan 03, 2011 7:19 am

If you want to get DC output you need to bypass the output capacitors, otherwise you can only modulate at audio frequency.
You might want to get a cheaper ADAT converter to mess around with. (fosex VC-8, or something like that)

after the output you need a simple op amp preamp. you could use something like this. catgirl synth stomp box adapter.
but instead of "stompbox" you are using your a16
http://www.cgs.synth.net/modules/cgs60_sba.html

the maximum output of the 16u is probably around +-3v MAX ill have a look with my scope and let you know for sure.

tomylee
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Re: Successful Full Range with Silentway Voicecontrol

Post by tomylee » Mon Jan 03, 2011 9:59 am

thanks for the reply, i will check that fostex, i hope it has adat ;) - I probably need 16in outs. a mate from hamburg is going to mod some of my analog midi infected gear with cv :)

probably he will also have to mod the converter im going to buy

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Re: Successful Full Range with Silentway Voicecontrol

Post by tomylee » Sun Jan 09, 2011 8:13 pm

Neutron wrote:the maximum output of the 16u is probably around +-3v MAX ill have a look with my scope and let you know for sure.
did you look at your scope? I have a guy who would mod some of my synthesizers to accept cv for voice control and filter etc - he would also mod my a16, i think I will like the a16, ok a bit expensive for what it should do but the fostex could get a mess to work with

but in your opinion, would it be troublesome or timeintensive to mod all 32channels of an a16u? I mean worth the effort, or would that take too long?

maybe an older 16 would be better? whats the cheapest 16I/O ADDA converter with jacks to get? Of course it does not need to sound good, so your fostex reccomendation I have considered, but I dont seem to trust its reliability and I would have to change also che chinch connectors, so more modding work...

is a old 16 (non ultra) available for about 150-200eur?

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Re: Successful Full Range with Silentway Voicecontrol

Post by tomylee » Sun Jan 09, 2011 10:54 pm

hey again - well I have another question, does the a16 or a16u have an offset in its output stage? the technician told me it could become a distaster with some converters to dc couple them cause they "could have an offset in their output stage" not that sure what he meant by that...

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Neutron
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Re: Successful Full Range with Silentway Voicecontrol

Post by Neutron » Mon Jan 10, 2011 8:09 pm

sorry i forgot, i was working on some things and it slipped my mind. ill have a look ASAP.

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Neutron
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Re: Successful Full Range with Silentway Voicecontrol

Post by Neutron » Mon Jan 10, 2011 8:12 pm

tomylee wrote:hey again - well I have another question, does the a16 or a16u have an offset in its output stage? the technician told me it could become a distaster with some converters to dc couple them cause they "could have an offset in their output stage" not that sure what he meant by that...
as long as the DC offset is known you can fix it, decently designed modules dont care about negative voltage, if its a 0-5v trigger, it would have to be corrected , if it is too high you just add an offset with a multiple + voltage referance, its not going to break anything.

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Re: Successful Full Range with Silentway Voicecontrol

Post by dawman » Tue Jan 11, 2011 3:42 am

Does this mean my A16U's can now be linked up with external MOTM or custom made Analog Filter modules..?
I have been trying to do this but the only person who had the solution was the guy from MOTM, but it would have cost me a fotune.
I basically wanted to add to Modular what I always thought it was lacking, a real Analog filter sound. Virtual filters just loose their tracking in the low registers. Analog filters are able to add the resonance and sound in the lowest ranges without any attenuation.
I actually gave up but this would be worth looking into.................

Thanks.

tomylee
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Re: Successful Full Range with Silentway Voicecontrol

Post by tomylee » Tue Jan 11, 2011 5:16 am

XITE-1/4LIVE wrote:Does this mean my A16U's can now be linked up with external MOTM or custom made Analog Filter modules..?
the A16u by itself cant, it would need to be modded, remove dc decoupling and add amplifier circuitry to each channel I guess

the motu interfaces are all dc coupled

you need an interface with dc coupled outputs

just check expertsleepers silentway, there is all the info you would need. they also offer some hardware to be able to use this even with dc-decoupled interfaces as most of the interfaces around in ther marked are.

so yes, you can route audio out of your da, run it into a filter, and control the filter with envelope or dc signals, rangning from standing dc to 20000 herz i guess, that will rock :)

the power of all this development is widely underestimated I guess, sc should jump on this train long before it starts imho, which is now.

some suggestions to sc: make the gate signal sync not async domain in modular. add cvins and outs (freq IOs)(trigger/gateIOs) to any 3rd party devices, so they could be controlled with cvs coming from either modular or outside your pc, or your sequencer...) and...get more adat IOs to your xite hardware, cause we will need lots of analog IOs for working with CV.

Edit: check out the waldorf afb16 its a analog filter bank with 16 filters and 16 amp staged, overdrivable of course, just like the one in the waldorf Q+ - stupid thing is it is integrated via vst, which in the end means of course asio latency... one could have it modded quite easily I guess, removing all the software about it and use the filterbank ;) a bit high in price though and rare, but its a box with filters and if you want just filters for modular, here are 16 of them with drive stages ;)

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Re: Successful Full Range with Silentway Voicecontrol

Post by Neutron » Tue Jan 11, 2011 5:31 am

going through that list of interfaces at expertsleepers do any of them have ADAT <> AUDIO? they would be best for scope owners.

tomylee
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Re: Successful Full Range with Silentway Voicecontrol

Post by tomylee » Tue Jan 11, 2011 5:45 am

sure, most of them have adat, adat is a standard that most interfaces have anyway, I guess all the motu ones for example have adat, but dont pin me down on that - just have a look

an old adat adda interface from ebay, then modded by an audio electrician would also do it, but I like the a16 for its design and z-link, so for convenience I would like to have that one modded.

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Re: Successful Full Range with Silentway Voicecontrol

Post by dawman » Tue Jan 11, 2011 6:38 am

I have a spare A16U I would love to have modded for this.
Exactly who do I see and what optimization should I tell said person I need...?
I really want to use the Wiard or MOTM stuff. I know there are custom solutions but everytime I called one these guys they want money up front, and then they do not deliver on time from what I have learned.
I actually did this w/ a developer a while back and after I sent him the money he told me it would suddenly take 6 months instead of 1, so I get quite infuriated at that type of support.
I promised myself I wasn't going to ever do this again.
So pre made modules that have been tested are all I am interested on gambling with.

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t_tangent
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Re: Successful Full Range with Silentway Voicecontrol

Post by t_tangent » Tue Jan 11, 2011 7:00 am

Forgive me if I have got this slightly out of context but did you build those cables that os recommends in order to use the silent way plugs in order to use them with an interface that isn't dc coupled, as per the following links

http://www.expert-sleepers.co.uk/siwaacencoder.html

and

http://www.muffwiggler.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=14328

Not sure if this relates to getting the full range to work with SC modular though, so ignore me if I am confused :)

I have also been interested in using these plugs but not got around to trying them out yet.

tomylee
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Re: Successful Full Range with Silentway Voicecontrol

Post by tomylee » Tue Jan 11, 2011 7:17 am

XITE-1/4LIVE wrote:I have a spare A16U I would love to have modded for this.
Exactly who do I see and what optimization should I tell said person I need...?
I really want to use the Wiard or MOTM stuff. I know there are custom solutions but everytime I called one these guys they want money up front, and then they do not deliver on time from what I have learned.
I actually did this w/ a developer a while back and after I sent him the money he told me it would suddenly take 6 months instead of 1, so I get quite infuriated at that type of support.
I promised myself I wasn't going to ever do this again.
So pre made modules that have been tested are all I am interested on gambling with.
hey, you could buy the modules the guy from expert sleepers offers, they should work fine with any converter, as the circuitry inside will boost the voltage of the converter up to 9x

anyways the modules from are rather expensive and the not so elegant solution, compared to directly modding an 16u

If you want you can send me your a16u and I give it to my modder who will tell me how much work it would be and for what price he could make it when, that would be awesome, cause I for now dont have an 16u, I would have to buy one just to find out if I really really wanna stick with that elegant solution ;)

Actually you would not have to wait any months for this mod, this guy I know in hamburg is very talented he repairs all of my analog gear and mods it if needed, its a matter of days usually, prices should be low, but in this case I dont know, he told me I should show him a model of what I want to be modded, but the theoretical thoughts he gave me sounded like it was no big deal for him!

anyway tell me if you wanna do that, I can send you back the modded unit if you want. All together it should not take longer than a month, should it take longer you can also sell me your a16u, cause I need one anyways ;)

tomylee
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Re: Successful Full Range with Silentway Voicecontrol

Post by tomylee » Tue Jan 11, 2011 7:22 am

t_tangent wrote:Forgive me if I have got this slightly out of context but did you build those cables that os recommends in order to use the silent way plugs in order to use them with an interface that isn't dc coupled, as per the following links

http://www.expert-sleepers.co.uk/siwaacencoder.html

and

http://www.muffwiggler.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=14328

Not sure if this relates to getting the full range to work with SC modular though, so ignore me if I am confused :)

I have also been interested in using these plugs but not got around to trying them out yet.
The special cable trick works in some cases, the special cabling should double the usable voltage from the converter, so filters cv ins that run from -5 to +5 volt should be controllable, but not ones who go from 0V to 10V but im not sure if there are any out there who do that, so as I said, you got to check for the specs of the analog modules and filters you wanna connect to this system!

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