Expert sleepers Silent Way CV for DC coupled audio cards

Anything about the Scope modular synths

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irrelevance

Expert sleepers Silent Way CV for DC coupled audio cards

Post by irrelevance »

I know the topic of controlling analog synths using scope has come up in the past but I can't find relevant threads at the moment.

This suite of tools has attracted me:
http://www.expert-sleepers.co.uk/silentway.html

I was plannig on using this in conjunction with my (once again )mod sequencer of choice Numerology. Since I upgraded to a mac pro I found I was eligible for a free upgarde! Nice! Numerology has an amazing sequencer feature set and supports cv conversion for the expert sleepers plugin.

www.five12.com (mac only)

If anyone has tried running the expert sleepers plugin or perhaps Motu Volta with scope cards I would love to know.

Looks like I will have to dust of the oscilloscope that's up in the loft...somewhere! 8) :lol:
dawman
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Re: Expert sleepers Silent Way CV for DC coupled audio cards

Post by dawman »

I noticed a CV spreader and other CV Modules in Mod IV and so far I haven't received any information yet.
But your find is especially nice, and a MacPro is a powerhouse. Do you have the dual Quad 2.26...?
I would love to hook up to external Filters from various developers.
Oscillators IMHO are better suited for Digital because the waveforms are much cheaper, faster and easier to assemble. Once they are CV'd to external analog filters the difference in sound would be neglgible. Then my dream of having both types of filters would be complete.
There'a reason I still use a 3 Oscillator Analog synth, the Oberheim style filter, and the Moog Ladder. Their sound IMHO is not reproducable digitally. I'm not against using Digital filters, especially one that are mission spedific like the Ridge Filters from Flexor, etc.
There are timing advantages of Digital that have an edge on Analog, so both types would compliment each other, but the sound of analog resonance in the very lowest ranges is FAT and very accurate, and no matter which synth or Modular patch I put together in Scope, this low end Bass and ADSR'd Resonance can not be duplicated.
Therefore the Analogs stay. If I can connect via the external analog and back in the Scope enviroment, I could have my dream rig, and it would still fit in the 4U I plan on using.

Here's why the SE-1's aren't going anywhere, I'd be happy to hear any patch in Modular where this low end quality can be duplicated, I would be more than happy to eat my hat.
01-091209_2006.mp3

What about that FAT BASTARD...?.... :wink:
irrelevance

Re: Expert sleepers Silent Way CV for DC coupled audio cards

Post by irrelevance »

Yeh I bit the bullet and went for the 2.26 macbook pro even though it doesn't have an express card slot but then I won't be able to afford an xite for a while so....Live and cubase being cross platform means that projects can be moved around with ease and the mac os just seems nice when on the move ie i can have a browser open with email client in the background through airport and sequencer chugging away with midi and audio without a glitch although I do turn them off when time to record. Also use it as an external fx/synth box when in the studio to run cpu hungry synths like absynth, fm8 so i'm happy.

Anyway..The only analog gear on my wishlist is the Shippmann ebbe and flut
http://www.schippmann-music.com/ebbeundflut

Otherwise I don't have any analog gear, but the thought of controlling/using scope modular like an analog with cvs recording into vdat and such is very appealing.
irrelevance

Re: Expert sleepers Silent Way CV for DC coupled audio cards

Post by irrelevance »

XITE-1/4LIVE wrote:

What about that FAT BASTARD...?.... :wink:

Nice ditti full round bottom end sure. I'm a digital kid so I use what I know but I'd like to know if that sound is down to programming or analog? Would have liked to hear a long full sweep on that too. Is anyone up for an emulation challenge? 8) :P
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Re: Expert sleepers Silent Way CV for DC coupled audio cards

Post by dawman »

It's Analog, and I have tried many patches and even Bowen Synths but a man's gotta know his limitations. IMHO Analog is limited w/o Digital, and Digital sounds thin w/o Analog.
So having a hybrid rig is what I like. Besides, Digital synths were able to send the Oberheims off to Japan to a museum, and I could be stubborn and say that Analog sounds better. But when 3 x Oscillators of Analog are used, it's a one of a kind sound that cannot be emulated, unless one uses actual circuit board old school stuff, or an Analog Modular, etc.
It's in the wiring or something. I have had several VST " developers " try and bull shit me about why and why not, etc. But at the end of the day they cannot reproduce it no matter how many mathematical equations and big words they throw around.
VST should be strictly for digital types of synthesis, since it cannot do analog yet, and DSP can do great analog emulations, but a developer must know from actual hands on use or youre just pissing in the wind.
Monophonic Analog is the last bastion left, but after 11 years and no joy, I have my doubts.
Besides I am one of the only guys who notices the difference in sound and still uses it.
It's much easier and cheaper to use a VST app and be done with it. But until I hear a developer who does an authentic 100% emulation, I will keep my 3 x OSC Monobeasts.
Eric Pershing is a chap who might be able to pull this off because he knows the difference, but in this day and age of mp3's and sequencers running an entire show.......nobody other than I probably cares. But several chaps often ask why things sound so FAT.....but the idea of breaking down and spending 600 USD on a used 3 x OSC. synth when you can go online and buy a mighty VST for 99 bucks......the choice is apparent.
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Re: Expert sleepers Silent Way CV for DC coupled audio cards

Post by netguyjoel »

That's why I keep my Waldorf Pulse & Moog Voyager. If I could afford it I'd buy 4 or 5 Voyager RME (rack mount edition) and a Moog VX-CP Rack Kit, along with my Voyager keyboard, to make a new Moog Modular system. The filters as well as a GREAT S&H...just the warmest analog I've ever heard. I have my eyes set on some Studio Electronics gear to put the icing on the cake, of my analog collection... :D
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Re: Expert sleepers Silent Way CV for DC coupled audio cards

Post by Fluxpod »

I wont sell my microwave2 either.Nothing else comes remotly close to that wieredness.The aliasing alone giving me pants explosions. :D
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Re: Expert sleepers Silent Way CV for DC coupled audio cards

Post by netguyjoel »

Yeah...I got a Microwave II and a Q rack as well...there is something about the Waldorf architecture & sound, that is just so cool. I'd actually be willing to get rid of the Microwave II for a Microwave I with the analog filters..... :D While I'm at it...a speaker frying Rack Attack..the VST version does not even come close to the hardware version.... :wink:
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Neutron
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Re: Expert sleepers Silent Way CV for DC coupled audio cards

Post by Neutron »

There is a little adapter in the works so you do not need a DC coupled converyter (A16 is not, or the fostex VC-8 by the way, they are not very common because an output capacitor is a very useful way to protect your circuitry)

It is a very simple scope (or vst, but someone else would have to make that) device but you need a small circuit to demodulate it. the circuit is a dual opamp, some resistors and diodes, and a bipolar power supply (basically a precision full wave rectifier and filter)

when a bit more testing is done i will post the circuit. I do not know if I will be able to get precisely 1V per octave over the full range without making a much more expensive circuit

Even with out it it would be very useful you will be able to control hardware from virtual CV or any audio signal.

If there is any interest i could have some proper double sided boards made (once it is finalized), maybe a run of 10 to start.
and a list of components and instructions (making sure not to use any exotic or expensive components)

or if you are just using CV, you could use a spare low pass filter on your modular if it has DC output, and you wouldnt need to build any demodulator box
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Re: Expert sleepers Silent Way CV for DC coupled audio cards

Post by dawman »

Count me in as I have been trying to do this, but the MOTM guy had me buying 6000 USD worth of Modules for a 6 voice set up.....!! Luckily he went from a 4 month back order list to a 9 month back order..........that was my cue to bow out. I hate doing that to people, but he said I don't blame you if you want your deposit back...........I said cool......send it in the form of a personal check...no problemos....
So this is possible....great.
I know the voltage needs to cover the entire range, but do we still need so many other modules to achieve 6-8 voice polyphony..? I mean we don't need the Oscillators, well I don't. I want to get a collection of MOTM and others to have multiple filter choices as I believe the electronics of the Oscillator should be easy in Digital form, and we have so many option already...

This will be a great trick indeed. I have a 3U area to put a few filters if it does. Then I can sell one of the SE-1's and keep the other as that 3 Osc sound is sure to be a thing of the past before long. VST's will get better and better, but I think we still have a few years.

I recently played Zebra, and think it is a wonderful semi modular VSTi. It was no surpise when the fliter lost its juice on the lowest 2 octaves. But that synth sounds great IMHO.
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Re: Expert sleepers Silent Way CV for DC coupled audio cards

Post by Neutron »

This is mostly for mono analog filters and whatnot, you would have to send out 6 CV and have 6 filters for poly and its a nightmare to set up. unless you just want to feed all your poly output in to a single filter (which can sound nice too)
irrelevance

Re: Expert sleepers Silent Way CV for DC coupled audio cards

Post by irrelevance »

Hmmm just been looking at the 400 series motm modules very reasonably priced and with the posibility of scope control... now you've got me interested :D
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Re: Expert sleepers Silent Way CV for DC coupled audio cards

Post by David »

count me in for the adapter, I'd be very interested in one. I have stacks of CV gate controlled instruments and I'd really like to get them connected to the sequencer. I've been meaning to buy a midi to cv converter for years but a specific device which connects directly to scope, lovely.
Way to go Neutron
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Re: Expert sleepers Silent Way CV for DC coupled audio cards

Post by borg »

http://www.muffwiggler.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=14201

by accident I stumbled on this... don't use it, but remembered it being a topic here.
no more DC coupled interface needed.
andy
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Re: Expert sleepers Silent Way CV for DC coupled audio cards

Post by t_tangent »

Thanks for the link borg. That looks very interesting indeed. Need to get some diodes and caps and then try this out. Cheers
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Re: Expert sleepers Silent Way CV for DC coupled audio cards

Post by borg »

I was just mildly interested at first, as the MS10, which I have, seemed not to work with most of these sort of apps because of a different approach to CV than most other synths/modules. People seem to have it working now, so when I have some time, I might give it a try... I have always liked the simple but beautiful sound of the MS10, and if this soft really works, it would bring this synth in the studio again. :)
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Re: Expert sleepers Silent Way CV for DC coupled audio cards

Post by tomylee »

has anyone already tried this with an a16/ultra converter? for the outputs it should really work, but what about the inputs? does the trick with the cables work with them too? would like to record some cv signals for editing and having fun with it in my sequencer...

:)
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