Sound Refracting

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David
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Sound Refracting

Post by David »

In the same way that light is refracted by a prism.
Is there a sound module which can produce the same effect with sound?
I understand sound refraction occurs naturaly when passing from one medium to another but I was wondering if this could be represented digitally so individual waves could be isolated and manipulated and also the range of dispersal controlled?

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ReD_MuZe
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Re: Sound Refracting

Post by ReD_MuZe »

i would guess fft and resynthesis would be a sort of way to do that... however color cognition is very different from sound cognition.
petal
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Re: Sound Refracting

Post by petal »

That's a cool idea.

I'd think fft and resynthesis as well, but for that Scope is not the right platform to turn to.

I'd go to the puredata community and ask those guys if it has been done already: http://puredata.hurleur.com/

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Shroomz~>
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Re: Sound Refracting

Post by Shroomz~> »

mmmm... so what aspect of sound would you like to 'refract' or disperse? I guess you could generate some crazy effects from dispersing individual samples in the time domain, but probably more musically useful would be to disperse frequencies or USE dispersed frequencies harmonically, which I think you can do in various ways with the Harmonic Effects Bundle by G.O.S.T.
David
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Re: Sound Refracting

Post by David »

Perhaps this thread should have been in devices/module wishlist, I originally thought it may already have been done... and with the Harmonic Effects bundle I may it find it has already

I keep reading good reports on the Harmonic Effects bundle and this will definately become a purchase.
I wonder how far the frequencies can be spread? I gather you can have control over the delay time in which the particular frequency is played or how it's manipulated using the insert effects.

I'm not able to explain fully the resultant output of the sound only the idea of how I wish the sound manipulated. It could end in just noise but I'm hoping not.

Perhaps the only editions to the Harmonic Effects bundle would be the ability to pan each frequency individualy and to have an overall spread control which could itself be paned. Also the ability to have each of the 8 channels as individual outs.

A description of this would perhaps be a torch beam which could be pointed where the operator wished including a filter to select individual wavelengths of the beam and manipulate them or split the wavelengths across the beam. The beam being able to be widened and narrowed either on individual wavelengths or across the whole spectrum.

(I understand I'm using light waves to describe sound here)

Perhaps and addition to that description is the way waves break on a pebbley shore. The sound comes at you with different frequencies hitting you at different times and due to the nature of the wave breaking unevenly(!) across the spread of the beach the frequencies arrive unevenly from a spread of directions but the whole effect is the one sound of the wave on the shore.

I'll play more fully with the Harmonic Effects bundle to see if it can create what I'm after. I agree this is a more musical approach but until I've found what I'm looking for I'm not sure if the result will be a sound effect or can be used musically. I imagine both results :)

I will go to puredata and see what I can find there and maybe post the question there too. fft and resynthesis is a big read but I will see if that produces the results I'm after. I don't see why this can't be done within modular though, as there appears to be enough tools, as I get a clearer picture of how to create the effect I may reattempt my construct. As you can tell my initial attempts have been doomed with me not even reaching a close representation :D

I got to hand it to you guys as your intelligence in these things is second to none.

Many thanks for the pointers
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eric
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Re: Sound Refracting

Post by eric »

Hi Feg,

I posted something recently about Fourier synthesis on Scope here - http://forums.planetz.com/viewtopic.php?f=5&t=27159

The Vocoder analysis module is sort of a waveband splitter. You would just need a lot more and narrower bands and then some innovative processing and recombination.

Eric.
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David
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Re: Sound Refracting

Post by David »

Hi Eric,

I did read with interest the article on Fourier Synthesis, though shamefully I must say the mathematics and the detailed explanations behind it did leave me behind (I do find readily constucted modules easier to play and develop with!)

I like the idea of using Vocoder, I'm looking at the Vocoder modules in ModIII now and maybe Spacef's CC controlers could be used to create the control of the frequency sweep effects.
I can tell that I'm going to need Xite if I'm using this route as multiple Vododer modules @ 96khz are DSP hungry.

If I come up with anything I'll post it.

Thanks
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eric
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Re: Sound Refracting

Post by eric »

The vocoder in Modular III has seperate analysis and synthesis which makes for access to each bandpass filter's output. You can then apply delay, phaser etc. etc. and remix via the matrix. Another thing DSP allows is infinite slope filters. Haven't seen any yet but I'm fairly new to this platform and don't have the SDK (in the pipeline)!

Eric.
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eric
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Re: Sound Refracting

Post by eric »

Hi Feg,
How goes it with your audio "prism"?

Eric.
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David
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Re: Sound Refracting

Post by David »

Well, I've opened a can of worms but perhaps and end is in sight somewhere.

I've been reading up on fourier synthesis

Downloaded pd and have brought a couple of books on pd and pd bang

In the meantime I've been looking into building a 64bit machine and considering whats necessary in order of software and drivers to get me to where I am now but in 64bit - I'm wondering if it's worth it at the moment!

Building the Prisim device out of vocoder modules and delaying the timing of particular frequencies quickly ate up all my available dsp and I could not venture far in that direction immediately. So (and not for this reason alone) I find myself purchasing Xite and asking for the sdk too. (more stuff to read up on)

But...

the concept of what I was originally asking for is becoming clearer as I gain a greater understanding of the processes involved in achieving it and I'm begining to be able to break it down into bits. Or at least thats what I'm telling myself to keep up with the inspiration :lol:
What I will actually gain from such an adventure in terms of sound I won't really know until I hear it but I still have a stong hope I'm going in the right direction for what I'd imagined.
Knowledge is always a great gain :)

Of course I'll be asking further questions as development progresses :D

David
eric
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Re: Sound Refracting

Post by eric »

Good stuff David.

I'm expecting the SDK at any moment. The paperwork is on it's way back from Ralf. I made the mistake of installing pd extended as well. Now I just can't find enough hours in the day to "play" and run a business! :)

I have tossed around your prism idea quite a few times in quiet moments. It's hard to imagine the kind of sound/effects it will produce. I thought about using modular the same way as you but realised the DSP power I had was way too little. pd extended shows promise if you get a computer with enough grunt. I have been exploring building a 64bit box too! I will keep in touch here but feel free to PM me anytime.

BTW I asked Ralf about SDK for Scope5. He said there would be a new SDK5 for Scope5 but was not released or public yet.

Eric.
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