January Contest discussions

marcuspocus · Post by **marcuspocus** » Tue Nov 19, 2002 11:27 am

At least all those who got Elektra first

Nestor · Post by **Nestor** » Tue Nov 19, 2002 11:48 am

I would like, nevertheless, to propose something a little more audacious, but not for the January contest cos it’s too close now, perhaps, to be done in three or for months time:

My proposition is to send 10 American dollars to John. Then only those who have paid the $10 to him would be accepted to participate. From this %10, $2 would be for the Z, i.e., for the needs John has maintaining the forum alive. The other $8 would be add up to buy the prize for the winner. If there are enough people participating, they could get a good Plug-In of his own choice, between the price rage of the collected money. If there are more people, the prize to be won could be a Luna II, an SRB II, a Pulsar II or even, (if we are very many) an SCOPE board.

This one would be headed by John himself, and the rules would be precise, exact, and not very exigent so most people could participate. The song would have a MIDI only part of one minute, then an only Audio part of one minute too, and then the last minute a mixture of both worlds. Three prices could be built, as we did last time. The first price could be a board if there is enough collaboration from the Z people. The second a good plug-in and the third a little plug-in. If we do something like that, I think we could ask Creamware THEMSELVES, to participate giving the board and plug-ins at a cost price, so John can buy them easily covering all the needs.

I love this idea: I think we can help John, and at the same time, people would be involved in a personal interest giving, so many more will help the Z. In the other hand, to win real prizes it’s interesting and, of course, really helpful, particularly if it goes to somebody desperately needing more DSP not having the money to upgrade the system, like we are “quite a few” I guess…

What do you think? Hope you like this one…

I do!

kensuguro · Post by **kensuguro** » Tue Nov 19, 2002 11:58 am

well, yes, Nestor. The learning part is of course the most important aspect. I'm just trying to keep things on controled grounds.. so as to keep the judging fair and reasonable. (so, I'm like saving my own arse too. hehe

)

But anyway, I think it's important that we make the patch atleast loadable on a 3dsp system (with reduced polyphony or whatever) so that the all users can check the patches. If the patch is 6dsp, people any less wouldn't even be able to load the patch.. Of course, it's just an idea. The idea of having the winning patch compatible with everything, is just... nice.

On the other hand, the option of doing it "use mod all you like" deal is still kind of appealing too. It really gets me excited to hear all the crazy sounds we might be getting.

Just trying to keep the options opened.

heey, but I think we are getting somewhere with this.

You know what would be a REAL challenge? Is not to use any pre-built effects. No Pulsar effects, no effect objects within modular either. That would be a killer. And an awefull waste of DSP. hehe. Ahh, just a thought.

kensuguro · Post by **kensuguro** » Tue Nov 19, 2002 12:14 pm

Getting money involved might be possible, but would be very hard. It's much harder to do these things on the net I think.. (plus we're all over the world so the mailing of the prizes would cost a lot)

And as soon as we get these physical prizes involved.. I mean, these BIG prizes.. we're going to have sore loosers and competition, rivalry, jealousy.. I mean, I think pulsarians are capable of something like this.. but I think we still do run a risk of distorting the community. (not a big risk, but it's there)

Last time, the Mod2 prizes were volunteered.. so nobody lost anything.. that was quite peaceful.

But that's all in the next contest so.. anyway.

marcuspocus · Post by **marcuspocus** » Tue Nov 19, 2002 12:29 pm

I don't like too much the idea of 'entry fees' for contest like this. Since i know i wouldn't win, i wouldn't participate either.

I do participate into these free one, cuz it's fun. And getting a Luna with each of you paying a 10$? Man, last contest, we where 3? 4? to participate? Come on, you'll get EQ31 at best!

Not to be pesimist, but you're maybe a bit optimist here.

No, what would be realistic, is trying to convince a developer to 'give' away one or 2 of his own plugins to a contest dedicated to Celmo's devices for example.

Month after, we dedicate a contest to SpaceF devices... and so on...

kensuguro · Post by **kensuguro** » Tue Nov 19, 2002 1:12 pm

well, these are future talks.. so let's not get too OT.

Nestor · Post by **Nestor** » Tue Nov 19, 2002 1:26 pm

Of course Ken, you’re right there…

True, if we were to use only modular stuff, that would be crazy creative!

It’s good to brain storm for a while isn’t it? This are very valuable thoughts I think even if they are or not practicable later. We are getting somewhere nice, sure…

I understand what you say Ken and Marcus, never though about this: jealousy etc., but well, perhaps I bothers people yes… You are probably right and that could break the peace we are leaving in.

kensuguro · Post by **kensuguro** » Wed Nov 20, 2002 9:34 pm

so, anyway, I'll be heading for Taiwan in a matter of minutes. I might not be able to check to often.. so please continue with the discussion.

I'll draw a line here, and let's have the discussion start at:
* modI and modII
* how many modII users there are
* size of the patch, and how many patches (maybe one for sound source, and one for effects? or one for all)
* due date will probably be Jan 15, or Z day.
* any other creative limitations
* maybe we should have support for first timers. People can go crazy with their first try at a modular system.

okee, I'm gonna go check on my suitecase. later dudes!

[ This Message was edited by: kensuguro on 2002-11-20 21:36 ]

Nestor · Post by **Nestor** » Thu Nov 21, 2002 2:47 am

Good luck Ken! We'll keep thinking about all this...

Nestor · Post by **Nestor** » Wed Nov 27, 2002 12:06 am

So??? When are we starting? Common,let's go for the instruments, etc., it's time to start!

marcuspocus · Post by **marcuspocus** » Wed Nov 27, 2002 12:19 am

So, Mod1 for first category

Mod2 & 3 for second category?

That's it?

kensuguro · Post by **kensuguro** » Wed Nov 27, 2002 2:29 am

hmm.. doesn't seem to be too much movement on this. I'll make final calls when I get back to Japan (with Thalamus and Borg). That'll be December 4. So please continue with discussing any limitations, other than dividing the contest into modI and modII or III.

borg · Post by **borg** » Wed Nov 27, 2002 1:24 pm

as said before, the contest is a fun and learning thing, not a competition... so all these different categories may lead us away from the essentials. it doesn't really matter wether you have 3 or 30 dsp's, or mod3 instead of 1, does it? at least, i don't judge a guitar player on the fact that he plays a custom made fender from 1894, rather than a cheap ibanez.

i'd suggest:

1. whatever modular you have for synths, as i am not sure wether there are decent drum possibilities in mod1 (if so, i'd suggest to do also the percussive part or... see below)
2. voice tracks... recently, i made a song that consisted only of 'mouth sounds'. i used only a cheap sony mic, sound forge and ableton live for mixing and fx. it was fun and inspiring,... and easy. really good for rhythmzzz. it doesn't matter at all what mic you have. a fisher price toy can do things the most expensive pro mic can't...
3. ??? thalamus, maybe? ken?

of course the SFP fx available to all (read: free) can be used.

to get more participants, maybe the rule 'at least two sound source categories must be used' is not too far fetched, or is it?
for the third sound source, maybe ken, thalamus and i can send a pm or email to each other if one has a preference or proposition...

marcuspocus · Post by **marcuspocus** » Wed Nov 27, 2002 2:20 pm

On 2002-11-27 13:24, borg wrote:
as said before, the contest is a fun and learning thing, not a competition... so all these different categories may lead us away from the essentials. it doesn't really matter wether you have 3 or 30 dsp's, or mod3 instead of 1, does it? at least, i don't judge a guitar player on the fact that he plays a custom made fender from 1894, rather than a cheap ibanez.

Nicely said, and i agree totaly on this.

And about your experiment with a mouth only song, i did exactly the same thing using also Ableton Live, it is still not finish, but, it is surprisingly cool doing all percu stuff like this, and it CAN sound pretty funky even with a cheap mic.

Nestor · Post by **Nestor** » Thu Nov 28, 2002 2:43 am

I'd like to work with Modular I only, three patches chosen by the moderator, tha't it. Rather simple, I think it's better.

Spirit · Post by **Spirit** » Thu Nov 28, 2002 5:44 am

How about the other idea where you use whatever modular version you like ? Mod1 is very, um, well, "retro". But I still think there should be two categories:

* device fits on 3DSP
* device fits on 6DSP

And the other rule that you must post (or state) the device you use. This way at least the community should get some good new devices.

alfonso · Post by **alfonso** » Thu Nov 28, 2002 7:51 am

On 2002-11-28 02:43, Nestor wrote:
I'd like to work with Modular I only, three patches chosen by the moderator, tha't it. Rather simple, I think it's better.

hi nestor,

i don't agree for the patches that have to be chosen...
the nice thing is to build those that fit your needs.
maybe this requires a couple of months more...but the nice thing for everyone that all the patches made for the contest MUST be uploaded here for everybody to use and learn.

that's a social meaning for the contest that i prefer to the individual goal of winning...of course there is a winner too, but in this way all can win something (know how and new patches).

borg · Post by **borg** » Thu Nov 28, 2002 1:01 pm

so...

1. unlimited use of modular (meaning recording to free up "the six dsp's" is allowed, after this, one can use another patch),
2. 'vocal' tracks are possible, but mustn't be used if not wanted.

3. all free and basic CW effects
4. sequencer/recorder of choice, without plugs

only people using modular 1 patches that fit onto circa 6 DSP's (one big patch with one voice or 6 voices using a small mod) will be taken into account for the contest. if you want to use your fresh mod3 or favorite mega patch, please do!!! the purpose is to have fun and learn, and the Z jury might give you the 'out of category' title, which i just invented, but, of course, you won't be allowed to choose the tools for the next contest (as if thalamus, ken and i have some decision taking power right now

)

just a thought, and it's about time we get something going... decision around the 5th of december, when ken gets back?

_________________
andy
 the lunatics are in the hall 

[ This Message was edited by: borg on 2002-11-28 13:10 ]

Michu · Post by **Michu** » Thu Nov 28, 2002 1:29 pm

just wanted to say,
that i am pro Mod1 (great vintage piece of gear) and i agree,
that all patches used must be posted

peace

michu

marcuspocus · Post by **marcuspocus** » Thu Nov 28, 2002 3:07 pm

Yeah, i like it much like this... Perfect compromise Borg!