My guitarist friend Arne in Sydney is way in to csound - he whipped up
this score generator in his spare time.
I'd like to find the time to look at csound further, but....
Creative Juices?
I'm the same wayne. CSound looks great and so does about a billion other things, but I think I'll be a little boring a stick to making music rather than too much sound design.
I struggle enough with analogue synthesis techniques and FM?? Might as well be an alien language.
I think I've got enough tools these days. I'm adding my Sonic Synth to get some fantastic sound content, scoop up my SFP 3.1 and just play. If I can't make a go of it with the equipment I've got, then I've probably been wasting WAY too much money.
I struggle enough with analogue synthesis techniques and FM?? Might as well be an alien language.
I think I've got enough tools these days. I'm adding my Sonic Synth to get some fantastic sound content, scoop up my SFP 3.1 and just play. If I can't make a go of it with the equipment I've got, then I've probably been wasting WAY too much money.
Caleb
Happiness is the hidden behind the obvious.
Happiness is the hidden behind the obvious.
well, for those of you interested. i throughly encourage you too have a look into the csound book, by dr. richard boulanger. as well as looking to be a wonderfull learning aide, it is going way beyond just learning csound. and in fact i think what i'll learn about using csound will be really applicable to anything music related outside of csound.
its going to keep me busy for a large portion of my life i imagine
. i've been just skimming through it the first few days here to gather enough info on csound to understand it more so. i don't think without the facilities of this book after i found out about it, would i have taken up csound. instead i would have gone to max/msp/nato. but csound is absolutely free, and max/msp/nato is almost a $1000! investment. i would have just picked up max by itself and gradually upgrade to msp...and lastly nato. i still like the idea of an object oriented programing environment though. which is what turned me off of csound for a long time. i got over that bit though here. thinking in code for one reason or another appeals to me for some reason now.
haven't done but a few of the tutorials yet. but i'm finding lots of relevant (outside of csound) stuff strewn about which i'm very glad to have clarrified.
oh, btw wayne...thanks for the link. i believe that program isn't mentioned in the html supplmentary manual included with the book!
i'm sticking with cecilia (on a mac) and mills csound 3.47 for the moment btw. and no...somewhat sadly i haven't been able to run a lot of the cool stuff in real time. i bet i can do some tweaking to get it better though.
best.
I agree that csound looks fascinating, but I think I'm gonna have to wait until I've got a spare 6 weeks to figure it out properly!
All of this is making me think I should just take a long holiday in the middle of nowhere and recharge my batteries. Difficult to do when you run your own business though *sigh*
All of this is making me think I should just take a long holiday in the middle of nowhere and recharge my batteries. Difficult to do when you run your own business though *sigh*
hmm, well. i was sort of under the impression more people wouldn't know what it is. its good to see people do know about it and see its power. i am grasping for an analogy of what csound is in comparision to something a bit more known...but just can't think of what...just now would draw a clear line.
hmm.
anyhow. for those of you not subscribed to the main mailing list i just got this message the other day which i think will appeal to a lot of people here.
i'm taking the liberty to copy and paste the message here. as it makes sense (the person is asking for help, suggestions, and or encouragement).
---
New Csound Page in Development:
After discussing this with many people for a while, (both csound users and
other techno musicians who are currently afraid of csound) and discovering
there is indeed a need, I'm going to start a tutorial page for Csound aimed
at new users and people using Csound for techno. ( Techno being used in the
broadest possible sense here. ; ) I believe Csound will ultimately benefit
from a larger user base as that will attract more users who can later become
contributors to the language and community. Right now I think the biggest
problem for attracting new users is that the documentation is hard for the
beginner to read, and it is hard to find the tutorials that best help one
get up and running. Along with the hundreds of fantastic examples on the net
are way too many broken links, code that doesn't work, or confusing
documentation with errors that a beginner should not have to find the hard
way.
The concept of the site is to have the following:
- Why would a "mainstream" producer want to use Csound, what are it's
advantages, how would one incorporate it into a "mainstream" style of
production ( ie multitrackers and midi control ) and how to go about getting
started, setting it up, etc.
- Choosing a build, setting it up, getting it to work on your system, and
testing it out. I need a mac user and a linux user to help for this part.
- Tutorials on beginning csound, with emphasis on getting going with real
time use via midi control, which is normally only covered in more advanced
tutorials. Also, understanding the fundamentals of csound, and where to look
for more info.
- Example code for the kind of instruments techno enthusiasts will be
interested, that work perfectly and sound good, including mp3 clips of them
if space allows. Excessive documentation for the non-programmer. This will
include examples by me and any others who want to submit them but will meet
the standards of clear readability and comprehensability for the
non-programmer..
- Links to good tutorials and examples that I personally know to work and
find well documented for non-engineers/programmers/math freaks. Also links
to other csound sites that I find accessible, clear, and pertinent.
This will include my summary of the content linked to, aimed at new users.
I.e. how hard is this tutorial, etc. )
- Links to Csound music that will be of interest to techno enthusiasts.
- Where to go from there for the brave!
The site may or may not include a forum or small mailing list specifically
for techno enthusiasts, as I still believe that many people wanting to
discuss such "low brow" topics are less likely to post them on the regular
csound list.
If anyone is interested in helping out, please contact me. I am looking for
contributors, web hosting, people who know more than me about forums and
email lists, and people who do the same stuff on Mac's and linux boxes.
Also, any one with current tutorials up who might not mind me rewriting them
for the beginner. This is not meant in any way to detract from the current
Csound list, but is an attempt to reach out to a potential new user base. I
know of a number of people in my town alone who would like to become active
but are currently intimidated by both csound and the main list. I hope this
can be a way for me and others to contribute to the csound community.
Iain Duncan
----
//c
hmm.
anyhow. for those of you not subscribed to the main mailing list i just got this message the other day which i think will appeal to a lot of people here.
i'm taking the liberty to copy and paste the message here. as it makes sense (the person is asking for help, suggestions, and or encouragement).
---
New Csound Page in Development:
After discussing this with many people for a while, (both csound users and
other techno musicians who are currently afraid of csound) and discovering
there is indeed a need, I'm going to start a tutorial page for Csound aimed
at new users and people using Csound for techno. ( Techno being used in the
broadest possible sense here. ; ) I believe Csound will ultimately benefit
from a larger user base as that will attract more users who can later become
contributors to the language and community. Right now I think the biggest
problem for attracting new users is that the documentation is hard for the
beginner to read, and it is hard to find the tutorials that best help one
get up and running. Along with the hundreds of fantastic examples on the net
are way too many broken links, code that doesn't work, or confusing
documentation with errors that a beginner should not have to find the hard
way.
The concept of the site is to have the following:
- Why would a "mainstream" producer want to use Csound, what are it's
advantages, how would one incorporate it into a "mainstream" style of
production ( ie multitrackers and midi control ) and how to go about getting
started, setting it up, etc.
- Choosing a build, setting it up, getting it to work on your system, and
testing it out. I need a mac user and a linux user to help for this part.
- Tutorials on beginning csound, with emphasis on getting going with real
time use via midi control, which is normally only covered in more advanced
tutorials. Also, understanding the fundamentals of csound, and where to look
for more info.
- Example code for the kind of instruments techno enthusiasts will be
interested, that work perfectly and sound good, including mp3 clips of them
if space allows. Excessive documentation for the non-programmer. This will
include examples by me and any others who want to submit them but will meet
the standards of clear readability and comprehensability for the
non-programmer..
- Links to good tutorials and examples that I personally know to work and
find well documented for non-engineers/programmers/math freaks. Also links
to other csound sites that I find accessible, clear, and pertinent.
This will include my summary of the content linked to, aimed at new users.
I.e. how hard is this tutorial, etc. )
- Links to Csound music that will be of interest to techno enthusiasts.
- Where to go from there for the brave!
The site may or may not include a forum or small mailing list specifically
for techno enthusiasts, as I still believe that many people wanting to
discuss such "low brow" topics are less likely to post them on the regular
csound list.
If anyone is interested in helping out, please contact me. I am looking for
contributors, web hosting, people who know more than me about forums and
email lists, and people who do the same stuff on Mac's and linux boxes.
Also, any one with current tutorials up who might not mind me rewriting them
for the beginner. This is not meant in any way to detract from the current
Csound list, but is an attempt to reach out to a potential new user base. I
know of a number of people in my town alone who would like to become active
but are currently intimidated by both csound and the main list. I hope this
can be a way for me and others to contribute to the csound community.
Iain Duncan
----
//c
hello,
for me the best way out of creative bottleneck has always been making some music with somebody else. another point of wiew of your four bars loop can often bring new points of wiew to you and a magic multiplication of ideas.
then we should never forget that music is a game (both the terms are expressed with the word "play") and communication, and interaction it's a creative process itself.
ciao, alfonso.
for me the best way out of creative bottleneck has always been making some music with somebody else. another point of wiew of your four bars loop can often bring new points of wiew to you and a magic multiplication of ideas.
then we should never forget that music is a game (both the terms are expressed with the word "play") and communication, and interaction it's a creative process itself.
ciao, alfonso.
-
Nestor
- Posts: 6676
- Joined: Tue Mar 27, 2001 4:00 pm
- Location: Fourth Dimension Paradise, Cloud Nine!
Most people will look outside themselves to find inspiration, which is to my understanding, just limitedly useful, cos inspiration is an inner matter. The real source of inspiration is WITHIN yourself; there is no other bigger place in the universe than your inner world, you yourself!
If you are looking for something “internal” into the “external”, I’m not surprised you can’t find it… cos it’s not there! Unless you keep coping what others composers have already done, without really feeling it as you would feel something that comes from the very bottom of your heart. I think nevertheless, coping is good if you do it sincerely to learn understanding others peoples lives and ways of playing any instrument, how they are pulling sounds out of their studios, etc., no doubt about that. But the main thing is to find your own source of inspiration, which is within.
IMAGINATION:
Imagination is one of the most important sources of inspiration to create music, or whatever artistic related work might be. Imagination puts you in objective contact - through the imagined archetypes - with the sense of the things you are seen in your eye’s mind. It’s amazing how down-to-earth a feeling can be - completely real - through the immensity of your imagination. I would never thought that myself if I would not have experienced it directly, cos it’s endless, as your Soul is.
Inspiration is everywhere if you are open minded. It’s seems to be a contradiction with the “look inside yourself” just pronounced, but it’s not. Inspiration it’s a reflection of your own experiences, it’s a contrast between the outer and inner worlds colliding together to form the force number three, or force of DISCOVERY, let’s call it “the new”. When our friends here recommend you to go out, to do something else, etc., they are completely right cos this is a way to go contrasting your person with the world. What is happening consequently when you visit a new country for instance? Your consciousness, that is the VERY REASON for the capability of your perception, is stimulated for you to FEEL something new. Then you are ready to tell us what you have felt about it through music. So, it’s something internal and not external, at the end of the day, this is what I mean.
TO LISTEN TO MUSIC:
To listen to music it’s very important too. But not doing something else while you’re there listening, I mean listening loosing yourself absolutely inside the music. Listening with such an attention, that you can’t pay attention to anything else meanwhile. Nevertheless, without judging anything immediately, trying to feel what is going on, what you feel and then you go to the technical side of things, when you have already listened to the whole thing. If you don’t proceed that way, you kill people’s music with your endless thoughts about the music, but you don’t really understand or listen to it in depth.
COMPOSING EVERYDAY:
Composing everyday it’s important too. Even if you come up with something ridiculous, do it for about 30 minutes everyday, BUT… ENJOY!!! Or rather leave it straight away! Don’t compose for more than 20 minutes if your music is absolutely not coming out. This constant practice gives you the smoothness you need to pull quickly your ideas out of your heart to the sound background.
This is a bit like loving your children… You can’t say: I’m going to love you now, come here my little angel… and start loving… It’s something that should be there by itself, spontaneously, but you have to give something to eat to them, or they’re going to die! Your music needs equally, the same attention as your children: give something to eat everyday – composing 30 minutes as an exercise but having fun – and when the moment is arrived, when your children comes to look for you, go there an give them all your love – compose your best music ever.
If you are looking for something “internal” into the “external”, I’m not surprised you can’t find it… cos it’s not there! Unless you keep coping what others composers have already done, without really feeling it as you would feel something that comes from the very bottom of your heart. I think nevertheless, coping is good if you do it sincerely to learn understanding others peoples lives and ways of playing any instrument, how they are pulling sounds out of their studios, etc., no doubt about that. But the main thing is to find your own source of inspiration, which is within.
IMAGINATION:
Imagination is one of the most important sources of inspiration to create music, or whatever artistic related work might be. Imagination puts you in objective contact - through the imagined archetypes - with the sense of the things you are seen in your eye’s mind. It’s amazing how down-to-earth a feeling can be - completely real - through the immensity of your imagination. I would never thought that myself if I would not have experienced it directly, cos it’s endless, as your Soul is.
Inspiration is everywhere if you are open minded. It’s seems to be a contradiction with the “look inside yourself” just pronounced, but it’s not. Inspiration it’s a reflection of your own experiences, it’s a contrast between the outer and inner worlds colliding together to form the force number three, or force of DISCOVERY, let’s call it “the new”. When our friends here recommend you to go out, to do something else, etc., they are completely right cos this is a way to go contrasting your person with the world. What is happening consequently when you visit a new country for instance? Your consciousness, that is the VERY REASON for the capability of your perception, is stimulated for you to FEEL something new. Then you are ready to tell us what you have felt about it through music. So, it’s something internal and not external, at the end of the day, this is what I mean.
TO LISTEN TO MUSIC:
To listen to music it’s very important too. But not doing something else while you’re there listening, I mean listening loosing yourself absolutely inside the music. Listening with such an attention, that you can’t pay attention to anything else meanwhile. Nevertheless, without judging anything immediately, trying to feel what is going on, what you feel and then you go to the technical side of things, when you have already listened to the whole thing. If you don’t proceed that way, you kill people’s music with your endless thoughts about the music, but you don’t really understand or listen to it in depth.
COMPOSING EVERYDAY:
Composing everyday it’s important too. Even if you come up with something ridiculous, do it for about 30 minutes everyday, BUT… ENJOY!!! Or rather leave it straight away! Don’t compose for more than 20 minutes if your music is absolutely not coming out. This constant practice gives you the smoothness you need to pull quickly your ideas out of your heart to the sound background.
This is a bit like loving your children… You can’t say: I’m going to love you now, come here my little angel… and start loving… It’s something that should be there by itself, spontaneously, but you have to give something to eat to them, or they’re going to die! Your music needs equally, the same attention as your children: give something to eat everyday – composing 30 minutes as an exercise but having fun – and when the moment is arrived, when your children comes to look for you, go there an give them all your love – compose your best music ever.
*MUSIC* The most Powerful Language in the world! *INDEED*
-
algorhythm
- Posts: 1139
- Joined: Tue Apr 03, 2001 4:00 pm
- Location: Tennessee, USA
- Contact:
I find that it experimentation is very inspirational. I'll sit down to in my studio, not particularly inspired, and then I'll start messing around. Then, I will create/discover something new and unusual that really inspires me to develop the idea, and add new ones. I really like to start out developing tracks in a non-teleological way (not thinking of the end or completion). I just like to muck around till something catches me.
Once I extract these really nice elements from experimenting, I then try to step back and broaden my vision. I think to myself "How can I develop and place this experimental bit into the context of a complete piece of music?" And then I start thinking teleologically and develop the structure of the song, in a fairly arbitrary way initially. And then, I experiment and add more, then restructure, then experiment, restructure, and so forth, until I end up with something "done."
This process of continual development also inspires me, after the initial period of experimenting. The fact that I am heading somewhere with sound, towards a place which is not entirely determined, yet not quite uncertain, fascinates me. It is this loss of self or ego, this fascination or fixation, this living in the "now" that keeps inspiration high. It is kind of like the "unfolding" or "disclosure" of the world which is talked about in French and German philosophy like Heidegger and Merleau-Ponty - Creating music is the unfolding of a state of your self to and in the world. It is a process of self-revelation.
In short, it is inspiring to complete a piece of music from obscure and experimental origins through an indeterminate process of development to share with Others.
Once I extract these really nice elements from experimenting, I then try to step back and broaden my vision. I think to myself "How can I develop and place this experimental bit into the context of a complete piece of music?" And then I start thinking teleologically and develop the structure of the song, in a fairly arbitrary way initially. And then, I experiment and add more, then restructure, then experiment, restructure, and so forth, until I end up with something "done."
This process of continual development also inspires me, after the initial period of experimenting. The fact that I am heading somewhere with sound, towards a place which is not entirely determined, yet not quite uncertain, fascinates me. It is this loss of self or ego, this fascination or fixation, this living in the "now" that keeps inspiration high. It is kind of like the "unfolding" or "disclosure" of the world which is talked about in French and German philosophy like Heidegger and Merleau-Ponty - Creating music is the unfolding of a state of your self to and in the world. It is a process of self-revelation.
In short, it is inspiring to complete a piece of music from obscure and experimental origins through an indeterminate process of development to share with Others.
hi nestor,
i hope you don't mean that musical interaction is copying....
what we find inside is coming from our experience, and of course there must be an inner urge for creation, but when you play the music "together" you are requesting the maximum from your mind, you are forced to a full duplex psychical state, you have to "listen" ( you can say "love") and this is just getting a larger interior world.
when you compose on your own you are not doing anything so much different from the above, but it's just a different latency. it works well when your experience buffers are properly set and full...
so, sometimes when we feel a little bit empty it's just a buffer underrun.
of course results differ a lot in the two situations, but both are necessary to be conscious ans so creative.
if you are curious, you can listen to two tracks i posted on plz.
the first:
http://www.planetz.com/forums/viewtopic ... forum=17&1
it's a piece completely composed in deep solitude, i was also very alone with my dreams and in life. all parts where all strictly arranged when it was recorded with a nice bunch of crazy musicians. and also completed at home again.
the second:
http://www.planetz.com/forums/viewtopic ... forum=17&0
this one is a full improvisation with two guitars, with very little synth overdub, with no premeditation, with a friend that lives in another town, very good friend, and as you can see there is a large band of emotional data between the players, i was really feeling syncronicity and it was the result of very low latency...
so they are different things, but feeding each other...
ciao.
i hope you don't mean that musical interaction is copying....
what we find inside is coming from our experience, and of course there must be an inner urge for creation, but when you play the music "together" you are requesting the maximum from your mind, you are forced to a full duplex psychical state, you have to "listen" ( you can say "love") and this is just getting a larger interior world.
when you compose on your own you are not doing anything so much different from the above, but it's just a different latency. it works well when your experience buffers are properly set and full...
so, sometimes when we feel a little bit empty it's just a buffer underrun.
of course results differ a lot in the two situations, but both are necessary to be conscious ans so creative.
if you are curious, you can listen to two tracks i posted on plz.
the first:
http://www.planetz.com/forums/viewtopic ... forum=17&1
it's a piece completely composed in deep solitude, i was also very alone with my dreams and in life. all parts where all strictly arranged when it was recorded with a nice bunch of crazy musicians. and also completed at home again.
the second:
http://www.planetz.com/forums/viewtopic ... forum=17&0
this one is a full improvisation with two guitars, with very little synth overdub, with no premeditation, with a friend that lives in another town, very good friend, and as you can see there is a large band of emotional data between the players, i was really feeling syncronicity and it was the result of very low latency...
so they are different things, but feeding each other...
ciao.
A belated thanks to Alfonso, Nestor and Algo for your suggestions. I've been really busy lately with completely non-audio related activity and this in itself is already helping me get back into the swing of things musically.
I'm finding as I sit here on a Friday night with a glass of scotch and a very playful frame of mind I'm coming up with some great stuff
Here's cheers!
Retro
I'm finding as I sit here on a Friday night with a glass of scotch and a very playful frame of mind I'm coming up with some great stuff
Here's cheers!
Retro