Sequencers with Pulsar

caleb · Post by **caleb** » Sun Feb 10, 2002 4:54 pm

Hi all,

Just wanted to get your thoughts on sequencers to use with the Pulsar environment - what features are important etc.

I have n-Track Studio as an audio multitracker, FruityLoops and Orion Pro as my "virtual studios" and a program called Muzys for midi sequencing/composing. Muzys has more midi sequencing power that the others which makes it really good for actual composing, n-Track Studio becomes good when you are dealing with audio tracks, but neither of those two are particularly good when it comes to VSTi, so it becomes necessary to use FruityLoops as well.

The problem is that if I opt for yet another piece of software, I'm just shelling out more money again. I guess the options are: Cubase VST, Logic and Sonar. If I was asked to lean I guess it would be towards Cubase VST because of it's VSTi integration. However, should I just make do with the set up I've got or try to integrate it all into one package?

Just interested in people's thoughts there.

algorhythm · Post by **algorhythm** » Mon Feb 11, 2002 6:30 am

cubase and logic work fine. the logic VSTi problems will be fixed w/version 5.

Anyone tried Ableton Live, or Orion with Pulsar?

tonygates · Post by **tonygates** » Tue Feb 12, 2002 12:04 pm

Nuendo 1.52 works fine, fine, fine.
Fruity Loops 3.4 now supports ASIO and works realtime.

eliam · Post by **eliam** » Wed Feb 13, 2002 10:57 pm

The missing link:

I-N-T-E-G-R-A-T-E-D MIDI SEQUENCER, with which we get rid of all the "quite good-not bad, but..." kinda stuff. Like Logic(which I use)... (and I kinda like it, but...)

I feel it's coming... I know in my Heart that it's close... closer and closer...

The subject isn't new, but I think I'll start a new thread on "the ultimate midi sequencer: how would it be?"

See you there...

King of Snake · Post by **King of Snake** » Sun Feb 17, 2002 5:50 am

The ultimate midi-sequencer? I think it's called Cubase or something like that

at0m · Post by **at0m** » Mon Feb 18, 2002 2:17 am

I turned to Cubase for it's VST, but I prefer Cakewalk for midi. I felt it had easier routings and control. Also the CAL's are quite cool to modultate midi stuff.

eliam · Post by **eliam** » Mon Feb 18, 2002 8:58 am

They all lack the same thing to me: the possibility to open different controller graphs on the same window... That makes it complicated when it comes to fine-tune the filters, lfos, volumes, velocities, etc. Many times I want to compare them without having to open and resize my windows hundreds of times...
Here's how it should work: Your main window gives you the choice of what you want to display for each track, and if you choose to see your notes, your pitch bender and your volume, the program just opens the controller graphs on the same window, in horizontal rows...
That would be a pleasure to work with, no doubt!

spacef · Post by **spacef** » Mon Feb 18, 2002 11:30 am

which one of the sequencers manage precise automations (volumes). I use Cubase VST but i find the "dynamic events" very unprecise and problematic (sometimes they do not play right). (i want to do this with the mouse, not a midi controller)
I see what pro tools can do and VST is very far from this and i'm looking for something better or at least an alternative.
Is logic or sonar or else manages this well ? (because of course, it should do midi too).
thanks in advance

[ This Message was edited by: spacef on 2002-02-18 11:32 ]

astroman · Post by **astroman** » Mon Feb 18, 2002 1:45 pm

I'd vote for the Pulsar onboard sequencer:
a.) it would be very close to the audio engine
b.) all other sequencers have grown over the years and have constantly been adopted to every flavor of operating system. This guarantees UNoptimized, slow code.
c.) most of the signal routing and processing is already on DSPs, and upcoming version 3.1 contains an audio multitracker. It cannot be that hard to provide the additional midi stuff, though Scope seems to be a bit weak in this area yet.

Imho the most obvious reason for CW not to release a sequencer is fright of a confrontation with Steinberg, Emagic etc. as many professional producers have their systems adjusted to the established ones and wouldn't dare changing a 'running system', even if it's not running perfectly.
I never had any trouble with my Pulsar, but now with Logic (even the tiny Micro AV) those famous little boxes I knew only from forums like this, keep appearing on my screen, too. If they hadn't that nice EPiano I'd kick it it off my system at once. And btw: Emagic clearly told me on phone that it's part of company policy to have that piano ONLY inside their sequencer, no standalone like the Native B4. That's what I call real customer support. Crack'em up - sorry this had to come out one day.

eliam · Post by **eliam** » Mon Feb 18, 2002 2:17 pm

Well, if cw comes out with their galaxy sequencer, we all will laugh at other's company's faces, no doubt!

It would be the first and only complete self-sufficient musical platform, and with the vdat which is to come out with the new scope fusion package, then my friends, we'll be a midi seq away from having it!!

caleb · Post by **caleb** » Mon Feb 18, 2002 6:20 pm

Hey - that's really interesting regarding the audio multi-tracker and the "galaxy" sequencer.

Are they just concepts or are there specs posted somewhere? I wouldn't mind reading up on what they going to be able to do.

At the moment my n-Track Studio is working quite nicely with Pulsar although this is hardly a fantastic midi sequencing solution.

Would be interesting is seeing the future of Pulsar.

bassdude · Post by **bassdude** » Mon Feb 18, 2002 8:49 pm

Spacef, I know exactly what you mean and can understand your frustration. You spend considerable time setting up the automation for the first time and when you go to make a change, all of a sudden all automation goes south! Faders move correctly but actual changes to the audio don't happen till a second or so later! At the time I was using vst 24 and I did quite a bit of research but could not get any concrete answers from anyone that improvements had been made in cubase 5 or if logic was better etc. It was like no-one was really using automation!

Anyway, I can tell you that automation in Nuendo is solid. Unfortuantely you pay the big $$$ for this

eliam · Post by **eliam** » Mon Feb 18, 2002 10:18 pm

I'm working with Logic and it seems that the controller automation goes quite well... I don't know if it is very precise, but my pitch bends are never late...
Except the fact that it shows only one controller at a time, it seems fine, maybe you should try it out, Spacef...

The galaxy seq is not currently available and has been called like that by some of the PZ crowd!... The v-dat however will be released in march... you can have a look here:
http://www.planetz.com/forums/viewtopic ... forum=10&9

Spirit · Post by **Spirit** » Mon Feb 18, 2002 11:35 pm

Regarding the Galaxy sequencer:

Name it and it shall come

Post by **garyb** » Mon Feb 18, 2002 11:44 pm

i find logic's automation to be very accurate and easy.

astroman · Post by **astroman** » Tue Feb 19, 2002 2:19 am

the automatition in triple 3.11 plugin is very appealing, so CW seems to know how to handle that stuff. At least I found it more handy than in any of the other sequencer I've tried.

madmod · Post by **madmod** » Tue Feb 19, 2002 4:54 am

On 2002-02-11 06:30, algorhythm wrote:

Anyone tried Ableton Live, or Orion with Pulsar?

Yer I have tried Live its pretty cool very quick and it would be great for "live"
pardon the pun.....
Theres a demo at
http://www.ableton.com/
in the downloads section
Regards
Madmod

[ This Message was edited by: madmod on 2002-02-19 04:55 ]

caleb · Post by **caleb** » Wed Feb 20, 2002 10:21 pm

Yeah the ableton live looks like one of those fantastic ideas that basically takes ACID and then turns into into something with far more potential. When you consider what an innovation ACID was that's a pretty neat achievement.

It's certainly looks like a great DJ solution.

It seems similar to a program called Muzys that I have which has an integrated sampler, a pretty extensive midi implmentation and support for VST plugs. Ableton obviously doesn't have a full midi sequencing application but it seems a far more versatile solution to Muzys at the moment.

If anyone's interested: http://www.muzys.com

It definitely has it's downsides but there was an attempt to make this a live instrument in a kinda similar way to Ableton.

spacef · Post by **spacef** » Thu Feb 21, 2002 8:14 am

this ableton app looks cool ! the muzik too but less full of features ?.
I should try both when i have time, (i'm a bit fed up of cubase)

Also, thanks to Bassdude for confirming my feeling on VST automation...

[ This Message was edited by: spacef on 2002-02-21 08:16 ]

caleb · Post by **caleb** » Mon Feb 25, 2002 4:40 pm

Just an update.

The new version of Muzys supports ASIO and VSTi.

Things just got a hell of a lot more interesting.

So far it's worked really well with my Pulsar II card. However, you can't select multiple audio outs from within the program. Hopefully this is on the cards for a future release.

Muzys 2.0 is in beta at the moment but is freely downloadable.

For me, it has now meant that I can dump both FruityLoops and Orion Pro as I find this program easier to compose with.