Orchestral sounds
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paulrmartin
- Posts: 2445
- Joined: Sun May 20, 2001 4:00 pm
- Location: Montreal, Canada
If anyone is interested, I'm selling my
Advanced Orchestra on ebay. Here is the link:
http://cgi.ebay.com/aw-cgi/eBayISAPI.dl ... 1514803421
Advanced Orchestra on ebay. Here is the link:
http://cgi.ebay.com/aw-cgi/eBayISAPI.dl ... 1514803421
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Nestor
- Posts: 6676
- Joined: Tue Mar 27, 2001 4:00 pm
- Location: Fourth Dimension Paradise, Cloud Nine!
Never ever will you find something so incredible perfect and realistic like:
"THE MIROSLAV VITOUS SYMPHONIC ORCHESTRA"
Absolutely, no doubt, the best in the world.
Available exclusively from Time+Space (UK) on CD-Roms for Akai, Digidesign SampleCell, Emu, Kurzweil and Roland samplers. The most elusive factor is the quest to capture the expressive power,the intimate sensitivity and the sheer passion of a full Symphony Orchestra.
These things can be reproduced via digital audio samples, but only with tremendous and unrelenting care and dedication. That relentless dedication was found in Miroslav Vitous. Now the world has an orchestral sample library that even accomplished conductors and successful film composers are proud to own.
TWO YEARS in the making, this beautiful collection of CD-ROMs has explored every subtle nuance of one of the world's top symphyny orchestras - and put them under your control.
This required many variations in size of section, dynamic (ppp to fff), and vibratos, etc. The performes have played together for many years, giving the sounds a very natural cohesion. Sound quality is simply the best there can possibly be. Digital, Digital, Digital. The solo samples are very comprehensive, including Bass Clarinet, Contra-Bassoon, and Bass Trombone and Harp. Woodwind and brass are rich and natural in the special acoustic afforded by a leading concert hall venue, and all instruments and sectiosn have been samples "in place" in the stereo field, so their relative positions in space are preserved and natural.
Many extra patches have been provided for the solo instruments in order to create the true sound and all sond extremely live and vital. e.g. the variety of different bowings/weights will suit many moods and styles of music. In fact everyting about the way the sounds were captured reflects the need of the classical composer.
The manuals explain many different ways of working with the samples. The CD-ROMs are availabe individually or as a set. Princing reflects years of intensive and dedicated work, the sheer numbers of musicians involved, and the huge costs involved in the recording process...
DISC 1 STRING ENSEMBLES
DISC 2 WOOD AND BRASS ENSEMBLES
DISC 3 SOLO INSTRUMENTS 1
DISC 4 SOLO INSTRUMENTS 2
DISC 5 PERCUSSION AND HARP
Extremely expensive £3095. Extremely good. Those are the best samples ever recorded, and for a long long time...
"THE MIROSLAV VITOUS SYMPHONIC ORCHESTRA"
Absolutely, no doubt, the best in the world.
Available exclusively from Time+Space (UK) on CD-Roms for Akai, Digidesign SampleCell, Emu, Kurzweil and Roland samplers. The most elusive factor is the quest to capture the expressive power,the intimate sensitivity and the sheer passion of a full Symphony Orchestra.
These things can be reproduced via digital audio samples, but only with tremendous and unrelenting care and dedication. That relentless dedication was found in Miroslav Vitous. Now the world has an orchestral sample library that even accomplished conductors and successful film composers are proud to own.
TWO YEARS in the making, this beautiful collection of CD-ROMs has explored every subtle nuance of one of the world's top symphyny orchestras - and put them under your control.
This required many variations in size of section, dynamic (ppp to fff), and vibratos, etc. The performes have played together for many years, giving the sounds a very natural cohesion. Sound quality is simply the best there can possibly be. Digital, Digital, Digital. The solo samples are very comprehensive, including Bass Clarinet, Contra-Bassoon, and Bass Trombone and Harp. Woodwind and brass are rich and natural in the special acoustic afforded by a leading concert hall venue, and all instruments and sectiosn have been samples "in place" in the stereo field, so their relative positions in space are preserved and natural.
Many extra patches have been provided for the solo instruments in order to create the true sound and all sond extremely live and vital. e.g. the variety of different bowings/weights will suit many moods and styles of music. In fact everyting about the way the sounds were captured reflects the need of the classical composer.
The manuals explain many different ways of working with the samples. The CD-ROMs are availabe individually or as a set. Princing reflects years of intensive and dedicated work, the sheer numbers of musicians involved, and the huge costs involved in the recording process...
DISC 1 STRING ENSEMBLES
DISC 2 WOOD AND BRASS ENSEMBLES
DISC 3 SOLO INSTRUMENTS 1
DISC 4 SOLO INSTRUMENTS 2
DISC 5 PERCUSSION AND HARP
Extremely expensive £3095. Extremely good. Those are the best samples ever recorded, and for a long long time...
Well... Nestor... I don't know if there are many Miroslav Vitous orchestral sample cd collections, but if not, I see only two possibilities:
1. you haven't actually heard the samples yourself, or
2. you haven't heard any other orchestral symphonic sample cds, so you don't have the perspective to see the Vitous cd set for what it is: a not-so-well made, over-priced sound library.
I have a firsthand experience because I bought myself the "solo instruments II" of the series, and if I did not hear some of the other cds, I would have said that this bank is mostly useless. I give this volume the note of 3/10. The main reasons are: excessive tremolo nearly everywhere, inconsistent sampling intervals (half-tones followed by fourths or fifths), ugly sounds in general, unpleasant to hear. When you play a flute note and you just want to shut it down because it agresses your senses, there's a problem somewhere. So is the case with a vast majority of the samples on the library we bought. We paid 800$us after reading reports like Nestor's(no offense, bro!
) to bitterly realize that we had a practically useless tool in our hands... I wrote to Mr Vitous asking for a refund, but no reply yet...
I recently listened to other cds of the collection, and I found that some of the orchestral sections sounded good. But the problem of the irregular intervals remained, and I found that the musicians could hardly refrain from doing too much vibrato, even in sections. I have nothing against vibrato, but when its there, you're caught with it even if you don't want it...
All those sounds are -sometimes- recorded at 2(two) velocities, not more! To my hears, the bass clarinet, oboe, flute, french horn and many other instruments (mostly solo) sounded plainly bad and I never would put such samples in any of my compositions.
On the other hand, beside the inconsistent intervals problem, the french horn section, string sections and some brass sections sounded rich and peaceful to my hears. The stereo image of the nice sounding samples gave them an interesting and definite spatial location. But truly, for the price, I just wonder why the company did not put more samples and to regular intervals, like thirds, or better, seconds... That would have improved the product.
In my opinion, the advanced orchestra cd library is WAY FAR better for much less $$ than the Vitous symphonic stuff.
I'm also wondering about the Garritan string library, which, for a little more money than A SINGLE Vitous cd, offers 16 cds plus a consistent booklet explaining how to use the collection (we received the equivalent of a page or 2 of info with our 800$ Vitous vol.4 cd!).
Anyway, if you got this kind of money to spend, I suggest you to have a good hearing before buying...
Peace to you!
<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: eliam on 2002-02-16 17:42 ]</font>
<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: eliam on 2002-02-16 17:43 ]</font>
<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: eliam on 2002-02-28 21:36 ]</font>
1. you haven't actually heard the samples yourself, or
2. you haven't heard any other orchestral symphonic sample cds, so you don't have the perspective to see the Vitous cd set for what it is: a not-so-well made, over-priced sound library.
I have a firsthand experience because I bought myself the "solo instruments II" of the series, and if I did not hear some of the other cds, I would have said that this bank is mostly useless. I give this volume the note of 3/10. The main reasons are: excessive tremolo nearly everywhere, inconsistent sampling intervals (half-tones followed by fourths or fifths), ugly sounds in general, unpleasant to hear. When you play a flute note and you just want to shut it down because it agresses your senses, there's a problem somewhere. So is the case with a vast majority of the samples on the library we bought. We paid 800$us after reading reports like Nestor's(no offense, bro!
) to bitterly realize that we had a practically useless tool in our hands... I wrote to Mr Vitous asking for a refund, but no reply yet...I recently listened to other cds of the collection, and I found that some of the orchestral sections sounded good. But the problem of the irregular intervals remained, and I found that the musicians could hardly refrain from doing too much vibrato, even in sections. I have nothing against vibrato, but when its there, you're caught with it even if you don't want it...
All those sounds are -sometimes- recorded at 2(two) velocities, not more! To my hears, the bass clarinet, oboe, flute, french horn and many other instruments (mostly solo) sounded plainly bad and I never would put such samples in any of my compositions.
On the other hand, beside the inconsistent intervals problem, the french horn section, string sections and some brass sections sounded rich and peaceful to my hears. The stereo image of the nice sounding samples gave them an interesting and definite spatial location. But truly, for the price, I just wonder why the company did not put more samples and to regular intervals, like thirds, or better, seconds... That would have improved the product.
In my opinion, the advanced orchestra cd library is WAY FAR better for much less $$ than the Vitous symphonic stuff.
I'm also wondering about the Garritan string library, which, for a little more money than A SINGLE Vitous cd, offers 16 cds plus a consistent booklet explaining how to use the collection (we received the equivalent of a page or 2 of info with our 800$ Vitous vol.4 cd!).
Anyway, if you got this kind of money to spend, I suggest you to have a good hearing before buying...
Peace to you!
<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: eliam on 2002-02-16 17:42 ]</font>
<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: eliam on 2002-02-16 17:43 ]</font>
<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: eliam on 2002-02-28 21:36 ]</font>
may I add to the other side of price range ?
EMU ModuleMania Orchestral (sf2 - one of the few better ones), basically the old orchestral protheus, about 8MB.
Well tuned and versatile for it's size, not the top end of sampling technology but definitely hit-proven. At $50 it's worth a try.
And Eliam, your comment reminded me on your sentence ...you must be highly successful with Gigasampler...
Not at all, for the same reason you had trouble with the library. I believed in the ads that this would be like a real piano. Additonally I bought the XSample 1 for it's greatest Rhodes ever (the reviews said), which turned out very boring in fact.
One better trusts one's ears for the expensive stuff.
EMU ModuleMania Orchestral (sf2 - one of the few better ones), basically the old orchestral protheus, about 8MB.
Well tuned and versatile for it's size, not the top end of sampling technology but definitely hit-proven. At $50 it's worth a try.
And Eliam, your comment reminded me on your sentence ...you must be highly successful with Gigasampler...
Not at all, for the same reason you had trouble with the library. I believed in the ads that this would be like a real piano. Additonally I bought the XSample 1 for it's greatest Rhodes ever (the reviews said), which turned out very boring in fact.
One better trusts one's ears for the expensive stuff.
Indeed, indeed!...
I long to have a really workable piano program... At a certain point, me and my partner plan to sample one ourselves, chromatically, at four velocities...It's a big job, and maybe a thousand bucks investment, but then you got a real good working tool... And you stop looking for anything else... Ahhh...
3 velocities for an instrument is kind of a minimum to have a realistic sounding program. And very few banks offer 3 velocities. So I think that unfortunately, we will have to start all over, or almost, to do it right once and for all, and stop wanting better (is this possible?...) I've worked with 3 velocities instruments, and I was feeling that I was getting close to the limit where it's not worth programming anymore, because a live ensemble would be less trouble to manage than the tons of details and parameters of the sequence... And that's kind of the limit of sampler-based composition and orchestration...
<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: eliam on 2002-02-17 09:20 ]</font>
I long to have a really workable piano program... At a certain point, me and my partner plan to sample one ourselves, chromatically, at four velocities...It's a big job, and maybe a thousand bucks investment, but then you got a real good working tool... And you stop looking for anything else... Ahhh...
3 velocities for an instrument is kind of a minimum to have a realistic sounding program. And very few banks offer 3 velocities. So I think that unfortunately, we will have to start all over, or almost, to do it right once and for all, and stop wanting better (is this possible?...) I've worked with 3 velocities instruments, and I was feeling that I was getting close to the limit where it's not worth programming anymore, because a live ensemble would be less trouble to manage than the tons of details and parameters of the sequence... And that's kind of the limit of sampler-based composition and orchestration...
<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: eliam on 2002-02-17 09:20 ]</font>
Eliam, even Steinberg didn't dare to do that themselves for their TheGrand. I'm pretty shure they used Kawai's work from the MP9000. The description of the recording sessions for both instruments reads exactly the same - very impressive. There might be something about it on Kawai's site. Though very interested in the Steinberg, I'm afraid it'll be TheResourceHog of the century.
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paulrmartin
- Posts: 2445
- Joined: Sun May 20, 2001 4:00 pm
- Location: Montreal, Canada
I have the advanced orchestra and is better with special effects in order to delete the "realism" sounding but keep a flavor from a real string. I think one should forget trying to have a realistic orchestra in a sampler/synth, unless you have something like protools to manage enveloppes precisely (do not do it in sequence, do it in the recorded audio track. Requires patience but you avoid getting crazy or multiply the same instrument in your midi sampler).
My best dark strings ? "silent string" from the eps bank. I also used a lot the "m1 dream pad" as sampled in the eps.
What i like is that they are slow, playable, and sound very good for synth strings (pads). has a flavor of a string but do not sound like it, so you easily avoid the awful unfinished sound of realistic samples.
Just my two synths (err... cents)
My best dark strings ? "silent string" from the eps bank. I also used a lot the "m1 dream pad" as sampled in the eps.
What i like is that they are slow, playable, and sound very good for synth strings (pads). has a flavor of a string but do not sound like it, so you easily avoid the awful unfinished sound of realistic samples.
Just my two synths (err... cents)
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Nestor
- Posts: 6676
- Joined: Tue Mar 27, 2001 4:00 pm
- Location: Fourth Dimension Paradise, Cloud Nine!
Well… I guess I'm wrong. This shows me that “to do well” is not enough, you need “to know more” in order to do so… I'm sure you are right cos of your experience in those matters. I have been told by some friends that the Vitous Orchestra is the very best in the market and had heard some works made with them that where incredible realistic and worm, probably after much work, I don't know, let's say "propaganda". All I've done was to write here the advert for you, believing they were REALLY the best in the market.
I have heard some classic samples, but they were very bad indeed. I guess this is the reason why, for my believe, the Vitous collection was a complete success.
Please, accept my apologies.
I have heard some classic samples, but they were very bad indeed. I guess this is the reason why, for my believe, the Vitous collection was a complete success.
Please, accept my apologies.
*MUSIC* The most Powerful Language in the world! *INDEED*
It's all right! 
That's what forums are for: comparing notes and experiences to learn! You gave me an opportunity to share something important that maybe I wouldn't have shared otherwise. So we're all winners...
Spacef, you are right that programming realistic sounding sequences is labor-intensive. But check the music section in the next weeks, I'll be sending something that might interest you (and others).
That's what forums are for: comparing notes and experiences to learn! You gave me an opportunity to share something important that maybe I wouldn't have shared otherwise. So we're all winners...
Spacef, you are right that programming realistic sounding sequences is labor-intensive. But check the music section in the next weeks, I'll be sending something that might interest you (and others).
Recently zapped into a TV feature about violinist Hilary Hahn with the Baltimore Symphony Orchestra working out some classical piece. They had a latency problem, too, though no sequencer was involved, no Asio whatsoever I really was shocked about that timing precision. The girl and the conductor discussed about a timing delay of about one 16th over several bars. There seems to be something in this kind of music beyond regular sound reception - and though I'm not a big classic fan: it shurely rocked.
<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: astroman on 2002-02-18 13:11 ]</font>
I really was shocked about that timing precision. The girl and the conductor discussed about a timing delay of about one 16th over several bars. There seems to be something in this kind of music beyond regular sound reception - and though I'm not a big classic fan: it shurely rocked.<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: astroman on 2002-02-18 13:11 ]</font>
Hey! I found this very interesting forum dedicated to sample libraries... Pretty neat stuff in there... Enjoy!
http://www.northernsounds.com/cgibin/fo ... s&number=3
http://www.northernsounds.com/cgibin/fo ... s&number=3
listen to what you can do with the advanced orchestra and miroslav vitous samples...
http://artists.mp3s.com/artists/8/antonio_genovino.html
i think it's great... you cannot tell the difference!
http://artists.mp3s.com/artists/8/antonio_genovino.html
i think it's great... you cannot tell the difference!
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paulrmartin
- Posts: 2445
- Joined: Sun May 20, 2001 4:00 pm
- Location: Montreal, Canada
I got a Yamaha A5000 sampler fairly recently. I think they're discontinued now but there's gotta be a few on eBay. They ship with - i think - 8 sample CDs, all set up velocity split / filter / layering wise and I've been well impressed with the quality of all the samples, (great latin & japanese percussion instruments - and loops, but we don't want those eh? - through to lush ensembles in a host of acoustic spaces).
Pretty drastic getting yourself a sampler to get access to samples but, believe, the sampler is bloody good.
The FX sections are possibly geared towards electronica (i.e. mashing sounds) rather than simulating acoustic intruments. CC control is hot as hell. I haven't even touched the possibilities.
Ahem, advert over
Pretty drastic getting yourself a sampler to get access to samples but, believe, the sampler is bloody good.
The FX sections are possibly geared towards electronica (i.e. mashing sounds) rather than simulating acoustic intruments. CC control is hot as hell. I haven't even touched the possibilities.
Ahem, advert over